Confirmed with Link: DeBoer the new Sharks head coach (officially official)

[Fistfullofbeer]

Would I be in a minority if I said I am not a big fan of offer sheets? To me it is just a way out for teams which have not drafted that well.

 

[hohosaregood]

Would I be in a minority if I said I am not a big fan of offer sheets? To me it is just a way out for teams which have not drafted that well.

Eh, people don't offer sheet very much anyways and there's a huge penalty for trying to poach big name guys. I just think of it as a legal tactic to grief other GMs.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The team lacks defense on the blueline, not offense. 8th worst defense in the league. Wiz would make the Sharks considerably worse on defense.

Sharks need an Oduya, a Hjalmarsson or an Alzner.

The team's offense on the blue line is Brent Burns. That's not going to get the job done if the team wants to go anywhere in the playoffs at some point. Besides, the team's defensive issues stem from a lack of a reliable 3rd pairing and a predominantly young forward group still learning to play defense at this level. A lot of goals against were missed assignments on the back-check or losing coverage from the forwards. They don't need an Oduya or a Hjalmarsson when they're developing Mueller and already have Vlasic, Braun, and Dillon. Dillon just needs to settle in and he'll improve there. If there's one thing I can believe in DeBoer doing, it's implementing a good defensive system. It's just whether the players buy in and execute that which they probably will the first year. But they don't have the horses for a balanced offensive attack at this point because they don't have a secondary blue line scorer and they are very young up and down the forward lineup that consistency will be a huge question mark.

 

[SactoShark]

They need defensemen that can move the puck out of the zone and transition play, instead of playing a bunch of hard-nosed defense that keeps them hemmed in their own zone for entire shifts.

 

[magic school bus]

The team lacks defense on the blueline, not offense. 8th worst defense in the league. Wiz would make the Sharks considerably worse on defense.

Sharks need an Oduya, a Hjalmarsson or an Alzner.

We lack defense because these guys are so bad on offense that the other team gets to play in our end more than they should. Using Vlasic and Braun in the defensive zone so that we can get Dillons and Hannans O zone starts is why we're bad.

Honestly can't think of anything we need less than an Oduya.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I agree with you. While I'd love DW to get a high end two way d-man the reality is those guys don't get moved (or tend to hit FA) so with that in mind I think offense from the blueline is the priority.

As for Oates, since I highly doubt DeBoer would tell him "you get a say on the PP and nothing else" I'm not interested.

With the talent the Sharks have I'm sure he'd be a great power play coach but history shows he's pretty bad at just about everything else coaching wise.

In general, teams that win the cup often have a superstar on defense or a superstar in net. Do you think San Jose will be the first team in a long time to break that trend?

 

[LadyStanley]

http://thehockeywriters.com/sharks-should-consider-clowe-as-assistant-coach/

One blogger suggests that DeB pick up Clowe if he retires this off season (from concussions).


(But as McLellan shows, you can get a concussion even being on the bench. )

 

[CJL182]

I completely forgot that Clowe was behind the bench for a while in SF during the lockout.

 

[Hangemhigh]

Clowe would be great as a coach. He would still be able to play the puck behind the Shark bench, and his speed wouldn't be a problem.

 

[SactoShark]

Clowe would be great as a coach. He would still be able to play the puck behind the Shark bench, and his speed wouldn't be a problem.

Clowe is great on the boards. Either side.

Am I getting this wrong though… if Clowe retires, wouldn't he be voiding his contract with NJ? If so, no way he does that. No way he should.

 

[magic school bus]

What Clowe should do is teach skilled players how to fight, so that we don't have to have goons.

 

[LadyStanley]

Clowe is great on the boards. Either side.

Am I getting this wrong though… if Clowe retires, wouldn't he be voiding his contract with NJ? If so, no way he does that. No way he should.

Nope. But if he wants to continue to receive salary of contract (which may be more than assistant coach), he would go on LTIR.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

We lack defense because these guys are so bad on offense that the other team gets to play in our end more than they should. Using Vlasic and Braun in the defensive zone so that we can get Dillons and Hannans O zone starts is why we're bad.

Honestly can't think of anything we need less than an Oduya.

Michael Del Zotto and Cody Franson are both available.

If Doug goes hard in FA like he hinted at, we should fix up that hole.

The biggest problem I see with the team is replacing Thornton and Marleau's production when they're gone. Doug is going to have to fleece another team for a high profile forward.

 

[LadyStanley]

Still have JT and PM under contract for two more seasons.

And their future and who will replace them has nothing to do with the head coach (and everything to do with the GM).

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I'd be all for Clowe. He expressed interest in coaching, why not cut your teeth in the org that drafted you? Video/jimmy rustling coach. That article is pretty stupid though. Joe Thornton doesn't need a cheerleader and feelings massager which basically what that article insinuates Clowe would be.

 

[RainbowDash]

Still have JT and PM under contract for two more seasons.

And their future and who will replace them has nothing to do with the head coach (and everything to do with the GM).

You know, we keep harping on the fact that we need to replace these players, but let me go ahead and pose a question to everyone who keeps reminding us that we need to replace these players soon.

How do you expect the GM to replace 2 players who were drafted 1st and 2nd OA in the same draft year? One of which is a generational talent player? We are not ever going to luck into drafting the 1st OA generational player, and we certainly aren't going to draft anywhere in the top 3 anytime soon because we don't suck.

 

[Barrie22]

You know, we keep harping on the fact that we need to replace these players, but let me go ahead and pose a question to everyone who keeps reminding us that we need to replace these players soon.

How do you expect the GM to replace 2 players who were drafted 1st and 2nd OA in the same draft year? One of which is a generational talent player? We are not ever going to luck into drafting the 1st OA generational player, and we certainly aren't going to draft anywhere in the top 3 anytime soon because we don't suck.

It is not about finding the next thornton and marleau via draft/trade/free agency. It is about replacing the production on the ice that they provide.

That can be done in numerous ways. Getting better defensively (letting in less goals), find a thornton/marleau replacements via draft/free agency/trade. Or fill the line up to have more offense throughout the entire line up.

 

[hockeyball]

You know, we keep harping on the fact that we need to replace these players, but let me go ahead and pose a question to everyone who keeps reminding us that we need to replace these players soon.

How do you expect the GM to replace 2 players who were drafted 1st and 2nd OA in the same draft year? One of which is a generational talent player? We are not ever going to luck into drafting the 1st OA generational player, and we certainly aren't going to draft anywhere in the top 3 anytime soon because we don't suck.

So what do you suggest? Wait until they retire or decline and then what? If wait until then, it's already too late to fix it. Your looking at years of bottom dwellling.

Honestly, the Sharks needed to fix it last off-season, they didn't, know they are behind the 8 ball and getting farther every day. If they can't move those two this season at some point we are likely, baring a minor miracle, end up with a team not good enough to win anything, and too talented to tank for 3-4 years minimum.

 

[Led Zappa]

So what do you suggest? Wait until they retire or decline and then what? If wait until then, it's already too late to fix it. Your looking at years of bottom dwellling.

Honestly, the Sharks needed to fix it last off-season, they didn't, know they are behind the 8 ball and getting farther every day. If they can't move those two this season at some point we are likely, baring a minor miracle, end up with a team not good enough to win anything, and too talented to tank for 3-4 years minimum.

Are you suggesting that we shouldn't have re-signed JT and PM? Are you suggesting that there is a way to force them into a trade? Because otherwise there was nothing to do last season.

 

[USF Shark]

So what do you suggest? Wait until they retire or decline and then what? If wait until then, it's already too late to fix it. Your looking at years of bottom dwellling.

Honestly, the Sharks needed to fix it last off-season, they didn't, know they are behind the 8 ball and getting farther every day. If they can't move those two this season at some point we are likely, baring a minor miracle, end up with a team not good enough to win anything, and too talented to tank for 3-4 years minimum.

Part of the problem with older stars is that they're often times more valuable to keep than to trade because you're not going to get the right value back for them. You're not going to get enough value back to replace the value you're giving up. Look at the recent history of trades involving (potential)future hall of fame players/hall of fame players who were in their late 30s and what their teams got in return...

• Hasek dealt to Detroit for Kozlov and a 1st round pick
• Forsberg dealt to Nashville for Ryan Parent, Scottie Upshall and Nashville's first- and third-round 2007 picks
• Oates to the Flyers for Maxime Ouellet and the Flyers' first, second and third round selections in the 2002 NHL Entry Draft
• Luongo to Florida for Jacob Markström and centre Shawn Matthias
• Pronger, along with forward Ryan Dingle, was traded to the Philadelphia Flyers in exchange for Lupul, defenceman Luca Sbisa, two first round draft picks and a conditional third round draft pick
• Iginla to the Penguins for Pittsburgh's first round selection at the 2013 NHL Entry Draft and college prospects Kenneth Agostino and Ben Hanowski.

Some of those deals are decent but others are not. It's really hard to put value on a future HOF player in trades, and I'm not sure if we'd be happy if we got something similar to some of those deals above.

 

[cantskate]

Part of the problem with older stars is that they're often times more valuable to keep than to trade because you're not going to get the right value back for them. You're not going to get enough value back to replace the value you're giving up. Look at the recent history of trades involving (potential)future hall of fame players/hall of fame players who were in their late 30s and what their teams got in return...

• Hasek dealt to Detroit for Kozlov and a 1st round pick
• Forsberg dealt to Nashville for Ryan Parent, Scottie Upshall and Nashville's first- and third-round 2007 picks
• Oates to the Flyers for Maxime Ouellet and the Flyers' first, second and third round selections in the 2002 NHL Entry Draft
• Luongo to Florida for Jacob Markström and centre Shawn Matthias
• Pronger, along with forward Ryan Dingle, was traded to the Philadelphia Flyers in exchange for Lupul, defenceman Luca Sbisa, two first round draft picks and a conditional third round draft pick
• Iginla to the Penguins for Pittsburgh's first round selection at the 2013 NHL Entry Draft and college prospects Kenneth Agostino and Ben Hanowski.

Some of those deals are decent but others are not. It's really hard to put value on a future HOF player in trades, and I'm not sure if we'd be happy if we got something similar to some of those deals above.

It's also hard to evaluate the trades you listed without knowing who those picks turned into. I'm too lazy and busy to look them up.

 

[SactoShark]

Nope. But if he wants to continue to receive salary of contract (which may be more than assistant coach), he would go on LTIR.

That's what i mean though. If he were to retire and coach another team, he would not receive his NJ salary, correct? There's no way he would turn down that money. No assistant coach makes near $4.85M.

 

[hockeyball]

Are you suggesting that we shouldn't have re-signed JT and PM? Are you suggesting that there is a way to force them into a trade? Because otherwise there was nothing to do last season.

It's rhetorical essentially, you are correct, but what I'm saying is if they could fix it, they needed to do so last season, or this season at the latest. After that the return will likely be so low as to be inconsequential and we will end up with essentially no Patty/JT (at least not the elite Patty and JT anymore) and no assets in return for that loss.

Our only saving grace right now is that the team sucked so bad we got the 9th overall pick, which in fact may be that small miracle we needed (we'll have to see), because I fully expected us to just miss the playoffs again, get the 15th pick at best, and do so again next season (if we still did not trade them at that point). Which would absolutely put us in the position of continuing to be just good enough to not improve. We need this 9th pick to produce an elite player, period. We also need to acquire at least one more elite player somehow (someone overachieving, another draft pick, a trade, whatever).

Best case scenario I see is Hertl develops into an elite #1c (that's a pretty big reach, but not totally impossible). Pavelski gives an elite winger for the next 3-5 years hopefully, and Goldobin pans out as a very good 1st ling winger (probably does not have elite potential). We draft Werenski, or by some miracle Provorov, and they quickly develop a la OEL and fill that top pairing D spot we so badly need filled. I have no idea what we do for a goalie. So best case our team looks like (with JT and Patty having walked):

Pavelski - Hertl - Goldobin
Nieto - Couture - Wingels
Karlsson - Tierney - Chartier

Provorov - Braun
Vlasic - Burns
Mueller - ?

That's a pretty big gamble. Those guys could easily turn out to be more Michalek's (good, but not great) and Setoguchi's (underperformers). We could draft Crouse instead of Werenski and he could peak at Wingels level. If that happens we've got a perennial lottery team. The Sharks need to hedge those bets by getting a few elite level prospects to ensure (as much as possible) those roles are filled, not hope the best.

 

[weastern bias]

We are not ever going to luck into drafting the 1st OA generational player, and we certainly aren't going to draft anywhere in the top 3 anytime soon because we don't suck.

Give it time

I think we'll be picking in the top 5 within 5 years

 

[OrrNumber4]

That can be done in numerous ways. Getting better defensively (letting in less goals)

You still need to replace the scoring up front.

find a thornton/marleau replacements via draft/free agency/trade.

The Sharks haven't been major free agent players since...ever? What franchise-level, or near-franchise-level caliber player is going to come here for a big discount?

In regards to the draft...there is a shot at doing so. On occasion, you can draft a forward like Marleau later in the draft. But high-level forwards like Thornton are rarely found outside of the top-5. Not only that, but the Sharks's drafting staff, for all its strength after it, is poor at drafting optimally in the first round (IMO).

In regards to trades...again, it is a longshot. High-caliber players are traded so infrequently. Getting them young is nearly impossible.

Or fill the line up to have more offense throughout the entire line up.

Scoring-by-committee almost never works. Your superstars need to carry the way; you need superstars to go head-to-head against the other teamss best.