Player Discussion David Backes II

[GloryDaze4877]

I think it's an overstatement to say he put us over the edge any more than anyone else. There's zero proof of that.

He is about a $4M player...on that I'd agree. He's 50% overpaid on average, and clearly has 1-2 too many years on his deal. If he was added when this team was on the cusp of a Cup, I think the detractors of this signing, notably me, would have been okay with it. But he wasn't. And that's the problem. They overpaid for a "final piece" kind of guy when they needed several pieces. And now when they finally look a year or two away from contending, they'll be dealing with his final seasons.

I agree that Backes is somewhat overpaid and I wish the deal was a year shorter. However, Chara is on his way out and Backes (along with Bergeron/Krug) will certainly be one of the leaders in the room. I will love Bergeron as the Captain, but from what I hear, he is a "lead by example" guy and not all that vocal/in your face. From what I understand, Backes is more that type of guy.

I'm not saying it's a given, but if Backes can be a "Recchi-like" presence to the young guys in his last couple of years, it could be money well spent.

 

[LouJersey]

I think it's an overstatement to say he put us over the edge any more than anyone else. There's zero proof of that.

He is about a $4M player...on that I'd agree. He's 50% overpaid on average, and clearly has 1-2 too many years on his deal. If he was added when this team was on the cusp of a Cup, I think the detractors of this signing, notably me, would have been okay with it. But he wasn't. And that's the problem. They overpaid for a "final piece" kind of guy when they needed several pieces. And now when they finally look a year or two away from contending, they'll be dealing with his final seasons.

I think guys like him are just as important on young teams as they are championship teams. They act like coaches and mentors as well.

I get the consternation over the term, truly I do, but I think it will work out fine. Iirc his Cassidy points numbers was close to 60 total points averaged over a full season.

 

[DKH]

Backes as he gets more comfortable with the area and team and system should improve

I can see Backes being underpaid in dollars not cap hit the final two years

Years 4 & 5 he's going to be paid $4 M in an $85 cap era

Bargain

 

[bp13]

I think guys like him are just as important on young teams as they are championship teams. They act like coaches and mentors as well.

I get the consternation over the term, truly I do, but I think it will work out fine. Iirc his Cassidy points numbers was close to 60 total points averaged over a full season.

If he puts up 60 points for the next two years then 45+ the final two, stays reasonably healthy, has a few key on-ice moments and is a vocal leader I'll take that. I would still contend that in the shoes of the GM I wouldn't have made the signing, but I'll cede that it worked out okay if those things happen.

But I don't see him putting up 60 points. I see him in the 40's on average every year, and especially if he's playing third line on this team. There isn't enough quality talent for anyone playing third line here to put up 60 points. And that seems to be another issue his defenders are sidestepping. When he was signed and some folks didn't like it, notably me, because I felt we were in the market for a top 4 D not David Backes, I was told he'd play 3C or wing next to Krejci. Supposedly we'd be getting a new Horton-esque player and Krejci would be better for it. And if not, he'd play 3C and we'd be so deep up the middle it would have a similar effect of adding a Dman. I could go back now and find 1,000 posts makign that case. Well how does that logic look now? Pretty flawed right? Now it seems people are okay with penciling him as 3RW!!! Third line RW!!! $30M over 5 years? Come on.

I know it's the dead horse I keep beating but it's a bad deal and it was from the start. It's not Clarkson bad because Backes is a decent player, yes, but it's a bad signing. If we had the chance to go back and do it again, I don't think anyone on this board would do it again. So why defend it? Nobody expects the GM to be perfect...this can just be a big mistake and we move on. Guys make mistakes.

 

[DKH]

If he puts up 60 points for the next two years then 45+ the final two, stays reasonably healthy, has a few key on-ice moments and is a vocal leader I'll take that. I would still contend that in the shoes of the GM I wouldn't have made the signing, but I'll cede that it worked out okay if those things happen.

But I don't see him putting up 60 points. I see him in the 40's on average every year, and especially if he's playing third line on this team. There isn't enough quality talent for anyone playing third line here to put up 60 points. And that seems to be another issue his defenders are sidestepping. When he was signed and some folks didn't like it, notably me, because I felt we were in the market for a top 4 D not David Backes, I was told he'd play 3C or wing next to Krejci. So we'd be getting a new Horton-esque player and Krejci would be better for it. And if not, he'd play 3C and we'd be so deep up the middle t would have a similar effect of adding a Dman. Well how does that logic look now? Pretty flawed I'd say because now many folks see him as 3RW, which is a far cry from 3C or 2RW.

I know it's the dead horse I keep beating but it's a bad deal and it was from the start. It's not Clarkson bad because Backes is a decent player, yes, but it's a bad signing. If we had the chance to go back and do it again, I don't think anyone on this board would do it again. So why defend it? Nobody expects the GM to be perfect...this can just be a big mistake and we move on. Guys make mistakes.

I think we get our answer this year

He's had a year to adjust and playing for a coach who he played well for

Cassidy will likely use him as a grinding winger

This should be his best year factoring age and familiarity

If he is going to score 20+ goals this is best opportunity

 

[Estlin]

The people who like Loui Eriksson type players, or even worse Loui, have an agenda against Backes, a big physical player who uses his size to be more than a net front presence like Loui was suppose to do.

David Backes is a solid top six W and if he transitions back to center will be one of the best third line centers in the game. Analytics don't like heart, hits and toughness, all intangibles that most GM's and fans still find quantifiable by watching the games. Will he be great in 5 years, probably not but I will take what he provides over the next 3-4 years and be very happy with it.

I assume that this was directed at me, in particular. While I like Eriksson and "Eriksson-type" players, I also like players who have a stronger physical edge. I enjoy seeing good power forwards play and love a great hit. I don't have anything against Backes--certainly no agenda--but I do have an issue with the signing of him, especially to a long-term deal at $6 million per season. He really wasn't a need for this team, and I believe that contract will become an albatross around the neck of the Bruins soon enough. I hope I am wrong on that, but, given his age and output last season, I just don't see him getting any better. If he is on the third line going forward, either as a center or RW, then that $6 million will be an awful lot to pay for someone there.

 

[BadBruins]

Cassidy will likely use him as a grinding winger

Which I think is kind of silly when you paid a premium for the center who wins faceoffs, kills penalties, plays shutdown minutes etc. Does the whole selke thing. That's why he's making $6M. That's where he built his reputation. If he's capable of still doing any of that, that's how he should be used IMO.

As a winger, he's like... a more consistent version of Beleskey. Not even a regular on the PK, getting mostly easy minutes with Krejci, expected to score. In reality he's not a finisher. Or a shooter.

 

[GoBs]

Backes as he gets more comfortable with the area and team and system should improve

I can see Backes being underpaid in dollars not cap hit the final two years

Years 4 & 5 he's going to be paid $4 M in an $85 cap era

Bargain

Agree and build a third line around this guy. You can rely on him for faceoffs in their own end and to supply offence.

 

[BNHL]

I think we get our answer this year

He's had a year to adjust and playing for a coach who he played well for

Cassidy will likely use him as a grinding winger

This should be his best year factoring age and familiarity

If he is going to score 20+ goals this is best opportunity

I absolutely think next year could be his high water mark with the Bs.

 

[Krupp]

I don't know why some of you guys think Backes is going to hit (or could, maybe) 60+ points next season. He didn't even get to 40, though he was close, this year. Granted, his game is alll rounded, so he has a lot more to offer than just his offensive stats.

I've said it in the spooner thread and I'll say it again right here. This man is your third line center. I know he bolsters the top 6 when he plays with Krejci, but this team really ought to consider balancing every line as best as they can. I don't think Spooner is the answer at center. Backes can at least give the team some time to sort out which young center in the AHL or elsewhere could be ready to take on that job sooner or later.

 

[BNHL]

I don't know why some of you guys think Backes is going to hit (or could, maybe) 60+ points next season. He didn't even get to 40, though he was close, this year. Granted, his game is alll rounded, so he has a lot more to offer than just his offensive stats.

I've said it in the spooner thread and I'll say it again right here. This man is your third line center. I know he bolsters the top 6 when he plays with Krejci, but this team really ought to consider balancing every line as best as they can. I don't think Spooner is the answer at center. Backes can at least give the team some time to sort out which young center in the AHL or elsewhere could be ready to take on that job sooner or later.

I think he's the perfect 3rd line center. Taking into account his peak seasons,his age,his second season with the Bs and my feeling he will be the 3rd line center,I'll project 42 points.

 

[PacificNWBruin]

The people who like Loui Eriksson type players, or even worse Loui, have an agenda against Backes, a big physical player who uses his size to be more than a net front presence like Loui was suppose to do.

David Backes is a solid top six W and if he transitions back to center will be one of the best third line centers in the game. Analytics don't like heart, hits and toughness, all intangibles that most GM's and fans still find quantifiable by watching the games. Will he be great in 5 years, probably not but I will take what he provides over the next 3-4 years and be very happy with it.

The people who over-hype Backes, have an agenda aswell. They're blinded by anyone with size and make any excuse about production about the extra intangibles being what the Bruins are paying for. I liked Loui. He was a better hockey player then Backes. He was better along the boards and better with tipping in front of the net. Loui was a lot more versatile, played on lines 1-3 like it was the same line and produced. Backes seemed to only produce on certain lines and couldn't play his natural position. I also like Backes, but based off production is very overpaid. I thought he had a better 2nd half of the season and thought he played well in the playoffs. Where was his toughness, heart and leadership when Carlo got injured with a dirty hit and the Capitals took liberties with the team?

 

[PacificNWBruin]

I think he's the perfect 3rd line center. Taking into account his peak seasons,his age,his second season with the Bs and my feeling he will be the 3rd line center,I'll project 42 points.

I agree with this.

 

[KnightofBoston]

Loui Eriksson was better in his last year with the bruins than Backes was in his first year with the bruins


Backes was better in his first year for the Bruins than Loui was in his first year, and yes I recognize his concussion, but at the end of the day ... points are points and wins are wins


I also think Backes did more for the team overall than Eriksson did and I thought he was one of our best playoff players, never got that sense from loui - and that was on a much better team.


I'm glad we didn't re - sign Eriksson but I have nothing against him, I like having Backes but am wary of his contract as he ages.


Not sure why people need to pick a side

 

[BNHL]

Loui Eriksson was better in his last year with the bruins than Backes was in his first year with the bruins


Backes was better in his first year for the Bruins than Loui was in his first year, and yes I recognize his concussion, but at the end of the day ... points are points and wins are wins


I also think Backes did more for the team overall than Eriksson did and I thought he was one of our best playoff players, never got that sense from loui - and that was on a much better team.


I'm glad we didn't re - sign Eriksson but I have nothing against him, I like having Backes but am wary of his contract as he ages.


Not sure why people need to pick a side

Should have stopped right there.

 

[Alan Ryan]

Loui Eriksson was better in his last year with the bruins than Backes was in his first year with the bruins


Backes was better in his first year for the Bruins than Loui was in his first year, and yes I recognize his concussion, but at the end of the day ... points are points and wins are wins


I also think Backes did more for the team overall than Eriksson did and I thought he was one of our best playoff players, never got that sense from loui - and that was on a much better team.


I'm glad we didn't re - sign Eriksson but I have nothing against him, I like having Backes but am wary of his contract as he ages.


Not sure why people need to pick a side

Agree. They were both good players for Boston--just different styles.

I loved watching Eriksson play--the subtleties in his game were amazing.

But Backes adds what the team needed more--strong leadership and a willingness to play physical. He should add a lot again this season.

 

[DrJustice]

The people who over-hype Backes, have an agenda aswell. They're blinded by anyone with size and make any excuse about production about the extra intangibles being what the Bruins are paying for. I liked Loui. He was a better hockey player then Backes. He was better along the boards and better with tipping in front of the net. Loui was a lot more versatile, played on lines 1-3 like it was the same line and produced. Backes seemed to only produce on certain lines and couldn't play his natural position. I also like Backes, but based off production is very overpaid. I thought he had a better 2nd half of the season and thought he played well in the playoffs. Where was his toughness, heart and leadership when Carlo got injured with a dirty hit and the Capitals took liberties with the team?

Oh how the narrative has changed on Loui Eriksson. Now he played up and down the lineup without a problem? He didn't really start to produce till he got paired with Soderberg. After that he played pretty well with Krejci, but never did he play well with Bergeron. He was good on the powerplay in front of the net but his even-strength production was very comparable to Backes's production this year. The same production he brought his $6 Million butt to Vancouver and produced a whopping 24 points. On a team he was pretty much guaranteed a Top line role.

Backes didn't have a great year for sure. I'm sure he would say that much as well. But once he started playing with Bergeron and Marchand it opened up Pastrnak to play with Krejci and it helped spread out the offence. I expect a better year from him this year, a lot of players see a drop in production after switching to a new team and a new system. If he stays healthy I think a return to 50-60 points on a line with Marchand and Bergeron is not unreasonable thing to project. If it doesn't pan out that way, then we can agree it was a bad overall signing.

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, HE IS NOT A 3rd LINE CENTER. Maybe in 2-3 years but not at this stage of his career. The guy is a good hockey player, lets give him the opportunity to succeed.

 

[smithformeragent]

I hated the signing at the time, and I still do.

To me, he's Marty LaPointe 2.0.

Perhaps some of the intangibles impact the younger players and it ends up being a bad contract on paper, but a good one in the long run. They didn't win anything substantial with him in year one, and the value of the deal is only going to get worse.

I'd have had them let Eriksson walk and instead not spend the money.

 

[CDJ]

Should have stopped right there.

I could reignite our debate if you want, because he had a **** year before the concussion as well. 4 of the last 5 seasons- not good. Facts only



Backes isn't getting 60 next year. And I'm probably one of his biggest supporters on here

 

[DKH]

I could reignite our debate if you want, because he had a **** year before the concussion as well. 4 of the last 5 seasons- not good. Facts only



Backes isn't getting 60 next year. And I'm probably one of his biggest supporters on here

I bought Predictive Analytics for Dummies at Barnes & Noble and been working on Backes.

Based on formulas and available data with Cassidy over last 27 games he comes out to

27 G
35 A

63 PIM

236 SOG

I'm done watching games this is the way to go

I apologize to all I insulted over not watching games and scouting from the basement

The time and money I'll save by not watching games should be quite a bit - I'm going to use analytics to figure that out as well. Love this

62 points he's worth the contract folks deal with it

 

[BNHL]

I bought Predictive Analytics for Dummies at Barnes & Noble and been working on Backes.

Based on formulas and available data with Cassidy over last 27 games he comes out to

27 G
35 A

63 PIM

236 SOG

I'm done watching games this is the way to go

I apologize to all I insulted over not watching games and scouting from the basement

The time and money I'll save by not watching games should be quite a bit - I'm going to use analytics to figure that out as well. Love this

62 points he's worth the contract folks deal with it

There is absolutely no way he nearly matches his peak season at 33.

 

[PB37]

There is absolutely no way he nearly matches his peak season at 33.

Mark Recchi put up a PPG season at 32/33 and flirted with another PPG season at the age of 35 ( both during the dead puck era ). Obviously he's a high watermark when it comes to longevity and productivity, but I think Backes still has plenty left in the tank to show this city.

 

[BNHL]

Mark Recchi put up a PPG season at 32/33 and flirted with another PPG season at the age of 35 ( both during the dead puck era ). Obviously he's a high watermark when it comes to longevity and productivity, but I think Backes still has plenty left in the tank to show this city.

But Recchi had seasons of 91,107,113 and 121 points. 79 points would have been a 35% decline from peak. We can play this game all day long. There must be 1000 players for every aberration. Think of this,92% of the players that entered the league with Backes will be gone as of next year.

 

[Over the volcano]

But Recchi had seasons of 91,107,113 and 121 points. 79 points would have been a 35% decline from peak. We can play this game all day long. There must be 1000 players for every aberration. Think of this,92% of the players that entered the league with Backes will be gone as of next year.

What percentage of them were captains and have similar point totals?

 

[DKH]

There is absolutely no way he nearly matches his peak season at 33.

you would think so but that's what I came up with using the numbers although it is dark in mom's basement and I may have used wrong data by mistake