Post-Game Talk: Crap

[Machinehead]

Will defeats skill in the playoffs. It always does. The core of this team has been lacking will for years.

It never does.

You obviously need a bit of both but the Stanley Cup is won almost exclusively by teams with top 5-10 talent.

And that's something we absolutely do not have despite all the whining about "too finesse!!"

 

[Machinehead]

I get a bit of the sentiment, especially with guys like Zibanejad, but take out Fox and the one line and we're damn near an AHL team right now.

We might be, with the injuries, icing the least talented lineup in the NHL outside of the state of California and we're talking about compete level.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Will defeats skill in the playoffs. It always does. The core of this team has been lacking will for years.

I dunno. Trouba has will imo. You need both.

 

[17futurecap]

I get a bit of the sentiment, especially with guys like Zibanejad, but take out Fox and the one line and we're damn near an AHL team right now.

We might be, with the injuries, icing the least talented lineup in the NHL outside of the state of California and we're talking about compete level.

It’s also funny we are desperately waiting to get a guy back that had 3 points in 20 games.

 

[Machinehead]

It’s also funny we are desperately waiting to get a guy back that had 3 points in 20 games.

I also kind of get that given what's out there right now, but it kind of tells you where the team was to begin with.

They're not good enough. They don't have the talent to play the kind of hockey people want and still score. They have to cheat and play grab ass hockey. This is the third coach in a row that started with structure and opted for grab ass because they were scoring once every two games at 5v5.

They're not good enough and they spent too much money on pieces that were never good enough.

 

[mas0764]

It never does.

You obviously need a bit of both but the Stanley Cup is won almost exclusively by teams with top 5-10 talent.

And that's something we absolutely do not have despite all the whining about "too finesse!!"

Yup.

I don’t know how we get there without another serious rebuild though.

I get a bit of the sentiment, especially with guys like Zibanejad, but take out Fox and the one line and we're damn near an AHL team right now.

We might be, with the injuries, icing the least talented lineup in the NHL outside of the state of California and we're talking about compete level.

Yeah we cut off our rebuild too early.

Rangers doing idiot Rangers things.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

It never does.

You obviously need a bit of both but the Stanley Cup is won almost exclusively by teams with top 5-10 talent.

And that's something we absolutely do not have despite all the whining about "too finesse!!"

I hate to say it, but the Rangers’ lack of getting anything out of all their top 10 picks is what’s really setting them back right now. Out of Laf, Kakko, Andersson, and Krapsoft Laf is the only one became somewhat useful, and he’s pacing for what 50 points this year? For a first overall pick. Had the Rangers hit on their top picks they would be considered a contender with top 5-10 talent. Now we can debate whether the Rangers failed to develop any of them or whether those drafts were weak and it was bad luck picking high. Probably a little of both.

 

[Machinehead]

Yup.

I don’t know how we get there without another serious rebuild though.



Yeah we cut off our rebuild too early.

Rangers doing idiot Rangers things.

They might as well play it out, but let guys who are expiring soon (Panarin, Trouba) just expire and let Fox be "hurt" for a couple of years like the Devils did with Hischier while they continued to soak up top picks, or how Tampa and Vegas just rest guys for the whole season. For the love of God, let Igor walk.

Maybe in 3-4 years Fox comes back from his 30 games per year due to "injury" and there's a few more high picks in addition to Cuylle, Othmann, Perreault, hopefully good Lafreniere etc, etc, etc.

Also please start drafting centers again.

 

[majordomo]

Get good players and then teach them to play the right way.

One would think this is something that is taught before they get to pro hockey.

 

[Machinehead]

I hate to say it, but the Rangers’ lack of getting anything out of all their top 10 picks is what’s really setting them back right now. Out of Laf, Kakko, Andersson, and Krapsoft Laf is the only one became somewhat useful, and he’s pacing for what 50 points this year? For a first overall pick. Had the Rangers hit on their top picks they would be considered a contender with top 5-10 talent. Now we can debate whether the Rangers failed to develop any of them or whether those drafts were weak and it was bad luck picking high. Probably a little of both.

Now you're talking.

The Rangers made "go for it" moves in 2019 banking that all their draft capital would be instant hits. That didn't happen and now they have a roster that's fine but not good enough, which is what they always had. And it's only fine because Panarin has honestly exceeded expectations.

Panarin quietly only has two more years left after this one. When that time comes it's time to think about rebuilding again.

 

[mas0764]

They might as well play it out, but let guys who are expiring soon (Panarin, Trouba) just expire and let Fox be "hurt" for a couple of years like the Devils did with Hischier while they continued to soak up top picks, or how Tampa and Vegas just rest guys for the whole season. For the love of God, let Igor walk.

Maybe in 3-4 years Fox comes back from his 30 games per year due to "injury" and there's a few more high picks in addition to Cuylle, Othmann, Perreault, hopefully good Lafreniere etc, etc, etc.

Also please start drafting centers again.

I like Panarin, but preach it. Fox is young enough to see the other side.

 

[Machinehead]

One would think this is something that is taught before they get to pro hockey.

Yes but the difference between the NHL and anything else is like the difference between peewee and the AHL.

 

[majordomo]

They might as well play it out, but let guys who are expiring soon (Panarin, Trouba) just expire and let Fox be "hurt" for a couple of years like the Devils did with Hischier while they continued to soak up top picks, or how Tampa and Vegas just rest guys for the whole season. For the love of God, let Igor walk.

Maybe in 3-4 years Fox comes back from his 30 games per year due to "injury" and there's a few more high picks in addition to Cuylle, Othmann, Perreault, hopefully good Lafreniere etc, etc, etc.

Also please start drafting centers again.

You really think Dolan is going to allow this?

 

[will1066]

One would think this is something that is taught before they get to pro hockey.

In Torts' opinion, no hockey player in the world plays the right way until they get coached by him.

And goes through his process.

 

[majordomo]

Yes but the difference between the NHL and anything else is like the difference between peewee and the AHL.

I should have been clearer.....they should know this by the time they reach the AHL and similar farm clubs.

 

[mas0764]

I hate to say it, but the Rangers’ lack of getting anything out of all their top 10 picks is what’s really setting them back right now. Out of Laf, Kakko, Andersson, and Krapsoft Laf is the only one became somewhat useful, and he’s pacing for what 50 points this year? For a first overall pick. Had the Rangers hit on their top picks they would be considered a contender with top 5-10 talent. Now we can debate whether the Rangers failed to develop any of them or whether those drafts were weak and it was bad luck picking high. Probably a little of both.

Andersson and Kravtsov weren’t great picks but it’s definitely largely development and Kakko and Laf prove it.

Now you're talking.

The Rangers made "go for it" moves in 2019 banking that all their draft capital would be instant hits. That didn't happen and now they have a roster that's fine but not good enough, which is what they always had. And it's only fine because Panarin has honestly exceeded expectations.

Panarin quietly only has two more years left after this one. When that time comes it's time to think about rebuilding again.

This is LITERALLY exactly what I’ve been saying for years. That we don’t have enough young talent, that the team as constructed isn’t good enough, that by time the young talent we do have develops, it will be too late for the Panarins Troubas Kreiders and Zibanejads.

We tried to walk in the middle of the road and instead of success we are just getting hit by the cars on both sides.

 

[Machinehead]

You really think Dolan is going to allow this?

The Knicks rebuilt and they have a legit star in his prime, and a cohesive roster that plays exciting basketball.

They probably also don't win, because you have basically no chance in the NBA without a boanfide generational talent on the roster, but they basically did everything right.

Dolan meddles with the Knicks a lot more than the Rangers. He was going to let the Rangers rebuild.

Gorton ruined it, not Dolan. He shot his load in free agency 18 months after the letter and didn't know how to draft.

I should have been clearer.....they should know this by the time they reach the AHL and similar farm clubs.

It's still a massive jump to play properly at this level. Guys with talent can be molded a lot easier than guys who lead with hustle and hitting can suddenly become NHL talents.

Lias Andersson in a nutshell.

 

[mas0764]

And I have to say… the one brilliant stroke that Gorton had was to blow it up before the entire roster was spent. He maximized his return in trades that way.

Maybe do it again.

 

[majordomo]

The Knicks rebuilt and they have a legit star in his prime, and a cohesive roster that plays exciting basketball.

They probably also don't win, because you have basically no chance in the NBA without a boanfide generational talent on the roster, but they basically did everything right.

Dolan meddles with the Knicks a lot more than the Rangers. He was going to let the Rangers rebuild.

Gorton ruined it, not Dolan. He shot his load in free agency 18 months after the letter and didn't know how to draft.

It's still a massive jump to play properly at this level. Guys with talent can be molded a lot easier than guys who lead with hustle and hitting can suddenly become NHL talents.

Lias Andersson in a nutshell.

Knicks have carte blanche where Dolan is concerned....and they are still a top drawer even when they suck.

Yes, Gorts and JD ruined the rebuild....but look how long it took to convince The Dolt that this was the way to go. I honestly don't think he'll agree to do it again so soon.

I agree about talent vs. hustle. Re playing right: the one thing that I find curious is why so many of our players are bad at fundamentals.

 

[Machinehead]

And I have to say… the one brilliant stroke that Gorton had was to blow it up before the entire roster was spent. He maximized his return in trades that way.

Maybe do it again.

It's harder now because we're at the point where the only teams who can take on salary are the rebuilding teams.

Unless the cap goes up significantly -and Lucy has put that football down for Charlie Brown before- literally nobody can take on somebody like Panarin.

 

[Machinehead]

Knicks have carte blanche where Dolan is concerned....and they are still a top drawer even when they suck.

Yes, Gorts and JD ruined the rebuild....but look how long it took to convince The Dolt that this was the way to go. I honestly don't think he'll agree to do it again so soon.

I agree about talent vs. hustle. Re playing right: the one thing that I find curious is why so many of our players are bad at fundamentals.

There's no reason he wouldn't. People seriously overstate how involved Dolan is with the Rangers.

The rebuild didn't work because the best forward Gorton picked (not counting consensus picks) was Adam Edstrom in the 6th round.

He sucks and he and Bobrov are currently overseeing another team that has no talent.

 

[majordomo]

And I have to say… the one brilliant stroke that Gorton had was to blow it up before the entire roster was spent. He maximized his return in trades that way.

Maybe do it again.

I believe they will have to do it again...sooner rather than later....but they first have to overhaul their scouting department and then their organizational structure. They need to stop trying to build from the top. One of the things I hate most about teams like the Bruins and Pens is how they always have players on the farm and how they bring them up and insert them in the lineup without a worry. It's sickening!!! Rangers almost always have to make trades to accomplish the same thing.

 

[majordomo]

People seriously overstate how involved Dolan is with the Rangers.

The rebuild didn't work because the best forward Gorton picked (not counting consensus picks) was Adam Edstrom in the 6th round.

He sucks and he and Bobrov are currently overseeing another team that has no talent.

Most don't realize how blessed Rangers are that they are a remote idea in Dolan's thoughts.

I believe rebuild didn't work because it was short circuited by the Trouba/Panarin acquisitions.

 

[will1066]

It's harder now because we're at the point where the only teams who can take on salary are the rebuilding teams.

Unless the cap goes up significantly -and Lucy has put that football down for Charlie Brown before- literally nobody can take on somebody like Panarin.

Maximize use of the buyouts. It's gonna suck, yes, but what other course is there. We don't have any dead cap on the books. Cap increases about 5 mil next season.

 

[Machinehead]

Maximize use of the buyouts. It's gonna suck, yes, but what other course is there. We don't have any dead cap on the books. Cap increases about 5 mil next season.

If the cap increases 5 million next season, I'll sniff my own farts.

We'll get maybe a million and another excuse.