Value of: Could Toronto acquire one of the following dman?

[randomusername101]

I think you over value JVR. He's a great player BUT you only get him for 1 year- he's going to test free agency, no doubt. Maybe he would sign a deal with an east coast American team to be close to home, Middleton, NJ

Not to be rude, but this'll be the 4th time I'm saying "preface = JVR signs with anaheim".

 

[Dbrownss]

Since we're playing the hypothetical game, after this conversation, I'd imagine the Leafs would just offer sheet him if they really wanted to (Not that would happen, just seems to make more sense).

Yea...good move by Toronto with 3 premium ELCs.

Either way, Blues match any offer sheet

 

[Ducks in a row]

Agreed. I should've prefaced by saying JVR signs.

Montour is good, but hasn't accomplished much. If JVR re-signs, the ducks add a top line forward. I don't know what your price for 60 point forwards is, but it's generally a good prospect + 1st usually.

Don't see JVR signing a cheap and long enough contract for us to be interested and that is not even considering the cost it would take to send away in a trade.

Montour is good young defenseman who did well in the playoffs. We have no interest in trading him especially now with Theodore gone.

And if it is a 1st and a good prospect like Montour for 1 year JVR we would be out of any bidding on him. If he was re-signed Maple Leafs would be asking for a lot more then we would want to pay.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Hanifan - Canes don't do this unless it's JVR +
Faulk - JVR straight up? Don't know a tonne besides he's offensively gifted
Pesce - Dont know enough, herad he's a prospect

It's better to refrain from posting than to post from ignorance.

 

[Hunter368]

JVR is near worthless to the Jets, absolutely no need for a UFA winger as a return for Trouba. JVR as the main piece doesn't even remotely gets Chevys interest. JVR++ for Trouba is terrible for the Jets. That's like the Jets offering Little++ for Rielly/Marner/Nylander.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Methot was just traded for a 2nd and C prospect
Theodore was traded to vegas to NOT take manson/vatanen
Drouin (who isnt as good as marner/nylander) returned the 2nd best D prospect in the league AND a 2nd rd pick

I think you are looking to much into the Hall-Larsson swap.
If the leafs moved either it would be more of the Jones-Johansen type meaning they have to get a young guy who will no doubt be at least a #2. guys like Vatanen,Stralman,Montour, Pesce etc don't fit that build.
not to mention hanifin who you apparently think marner/Nylander + doesnt return (check the canes boards to see how wrong you are on that one. they would trade anyone not named slavin for marner).

we keep hearing the same dialogue about marner/nylander but it aint gonna happen. how many top 4 D are there in the league?
How many impact 19-20 year old forwards are there? probably about 10x less

Methot - Already 32 years old and exiting his prime. He's also only played with Karlsson for the last x number of years, it's basically impossible not to look like a good Top 4D when you're plaiyng next to a Top 3D in the league. Lets see how he does in Dallas, I doubt he looks half as good as he is now.


Theodore - Not a Top 4 Dman right now and quite frankly was made available in Anaheim because he had been surpassed by a lot of other Dmen in that system. Still probably has good upside and could become a Top 4D but lots of work to do before reaching that yet.


Sergachev - Seriously? Top 2 D Prospect in the league? Get out of here with that stuff. He's not even a Top 5 D prospect at this point. He's not better than Chabot, McAvoy, Honka, Sanheim, Juolevi, Heiskanen, or Makar.



Also just going to ignore the part about Drouin not being better than Marner/Nylander. He's at the very least on even ground to Nylander.




You're also not asking for just a general Top 4D. This thread is quite clearly asking for either a young under 23 Top 4D, or if the player is over 23(Like in the case of Stralman/Giordano/Faulk) you're looking at a true top pairing guy.



There's actually significantly less Top 4D in the league under 23 then there are impact 19-20 year old. Significantly.



I am now aware however that it is indeed you overrating Nylander significantly more then it is you underrating Dmen. There are a lot of comparables to Nylander all throughout the league. Drouin, Ehlers, Monahan, Mackinnon, Tkachuk, Wennberg, Draisaitl, Pastrnak, Rantanen, Laine, Forsberg, Barkov, Horvat.


All guys within 1-2 years of Nylander making very similar impacts on there teams and on the game. The list of legitimate Top 4D in the NHL at under 23 is a smaller list than that one.

 

[randomusername101]

Don't see JVR signing a cheap and long enough contract for us to be interested and that is not even considering the cost it would take to send away in a trade.

Montour is good young defenseman who did well in the playoffs. We have no interest in trading him especially now with Theodore gone.

And if it is a 1st and a good prospect like Montour for 1 year JVR we would be out of any bidding on him. If he was re-signed Maple Leafs would be asking for a lot more then we would want to pay.

Just a note: anaheim overpaid vegas

I disagree, I think the value of Montour + 1st is enough for JVR even if JVR signs. JVR is not part of the future, Montour would be.

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

I barely read this thread, and thankfully I didn't continue when I started the words "Marner for Montour" were even written. Forget that it was a rejected idea, the fact that that's even mentioned in any way is asinine. Trade a future likely Top 10-15 player for a prospect with a few games?

To answer OP.

Montour - JVR, but Anaheim has to add a 1st.
Manson - Same deal as montour, but perhaps a 2nd on 2nd thought.
Vatanen - JVR, but anaheim adds a 2nd or 3rd.
Hamilton - JVR straight up, Toronto maybe adds a 3rd
Giordano - Don't konw enough about him
Hanifan - Canes don't do this unless it's JVR +
Faulk - JVR straight up? Don't know a tonne besides he's offensively gifted
Pesce - Dont know enough, herad he's a prospect
Seabrook - Again, as I said in another thread, why?
Brodin - Don't know
Dumba - JVR ++
Ellis - JVR ++
Ekholm - Don't know enough
Bouwmeester - Why? + Stupid
Parayko - Don't know
Stralman - Tampa wont
Tanev - JVR straight up, or Van adds 2nd
Trouba - Same as Dumba

Just.....wow. OP looked like he just pulled names out of a hat because the values on some of these guys and their roles on their respective teams vary to a huge degree.

Then this guy shows up with this gem...

 

[randomusername101]

It's better to refrain from posting than to post from ignorance.

How is it ignorant if I clearly say with emphasis the ones I am sure about and mention I don't know enough about certain systems like the Canes when I don't?

 

[Exit Dose]

Anaheim can't consider moving a healthy defenseman till midseason at the earliest.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Just a note: anaheim overpaid vegas

I disagree, I think the value of Montour + 1st is enough for JVR even if JVR signs. JVR is not part of the future, Montour would be.

We didn't want to lose Manson or Vatanen and for them not to take one of them they got Theodore and took on a cap dump we really wanted to get rid of. Some call that overpay some would say that was a good deal.

No I don't see it being enough based on what I have seen from many Maple Leafs fans.

Anaheim can't consider moving a healthy defenseman till midseason at the earliest.

Yea that also has a big effect too besides just not wanting to lose those good defenseman who are healthy.

 

[Calgareee]

Hamilton - JVR straight up, Toronto maybe adds a 3rd
Giordano - Don't konw enough about him

What?? You shoulda left it at don't know about either of them. JVR gets you nowhere near Hamilton. For one he's a pending UFA and won't fit in our cap structure. We have lots of depth on the left side and JVR simply does not fill a need. Do not Want JVR.

 

[Bernify]

Methot - Already 32 years old and exiting his prime. He's also only played with Karlsson for the last x number of years, it's basically impossible not to look like a good Top 4D when you're plaiyng next to a Top 3D in the league. Lets see how he does in Dallas, I doubt he looks half as good as he is now.


Theodore - Not a Top 4 Dman right now and quite frankly was made available in Anaheim because he had been surpassed by a lot of other Dmen in that system. Still probably has good upside and could become a Top 4D but lots of work to do before reaching that yet.


Sergachev - Seriously? Top 2 D Prospect in the league? Get out of here with that stuff. He's not even a Top 5 D prospect at this point. He's not better than Chabot, McAvoy, Honka, Sanheim, Juolevi, Heiskanen, or Makar.



Also just going to ignore the part about Drouin not being better than Marner/Nylander. He's at the very least on even ground to Nylander.




You're also not asking for just a general Top 4D. This thread is quite clearly asking for either a young under 23 Top 4D, or if the player is over 23(Like in the case of Stralman/Giordano/Faulk) you're looking at a true top pairing guy.



There's actually significantly less Top 4D in the league under 23 then there are impact 19-20 year old. Significantly.



I am now aware however that it is indeed you overrating Nylander significantly more then it is you underrating Dmen. There are a lot of comparables to Nylander all throughout the league.

I never realized the cheaper, younger, 60 point scoring player was on even ground with an older, more expensive, yet to break 55 point player.

 

[heretik27]

Methot - Already 32 years old and exiting his prime. He's also only played with Karlsson for the last x number of years, it's basically impossible not to look like a good Top 4D when you're plaiyng next to a Top 3D in the league. Lets see how he does in Dallas, I doubt he looks half as good as he is now.


Theodore - Not a Top 4 Dman right now and quite frankly was made available in Anaheim because he had been surpassed by a lot of other Dmen in that system. Still probably has good upside and could become a Top 4D but lots of work to do before reaching that yet.


Sergachev - Seriously? Top 2 D Prospect in the league? Get out of here with that stuff. He's not even a Top 5 D prospect at this point. He's not better than Chabot, McAvoy, Honka, Sanheim, Juolevi, Heiskanen, or Makar.



Also just going to ignore the part about Drouin not being better than Marner/Nylander. He's at the very least on even ground to Nylander.




You're also not asking for just a general Top 4D. This thread is quite clearly asking for either a young under 23 Top 4D, or if the player is over 23(Like in the case of Stralman/Giordano/Faulk) you're looking at a true top pairing guy.



There's actually significantly less Top 4D in the league under 23 then there are impact 19-20 year old. Significantly.



I am now aware however that it is indeed you overrating Nylander significantly more then it is you underrating Dmen. There are a lot of comparables to Nylander all throughout the league.

Just my opinion, but Nylander is a very talented player and there may be people valued equally as him at the moment, but his skills don't fall off of trees. I would probably take either Marner or Nylander over Drouin moving forward, not to say Drouin is bad but the others are far ahead of his development curve with high upsides. I think you may be under evaluating Nylander, or perhaps you simply see him as Matthews winger forever and not a potential 70+ point center.

 

[BlueDream]

Parayko: no

What would you be willing to give up for Bouwmeester? If it's a 1st, absolutely. I know that's steep but anything less than that and the Blues wouldn't do it. They are contending after all.

Or a deal around Bozak could work I guess too.

 

[Bernify]

Yea...good move by Toronto with 3 premium ELCs.

Either way, Blues match any offer sheet

Well, in our scenario, I'd rather take my chance paying those three ELC's than giving one up.

And I know that, but I think we can both agree that 1. The odds of the Blues not matching is higher than that of the Leafs giving up Matthews and 2. This idea is insane anyway.

I just took issue with saying that objective value for Parayko is Matthews. In vacuum, it's not. I get the Blues rightfully value him highly, but he's not THAT valuable

 

[randomusername101]

We didn't want to lose Manson or Vatanen and for them not to take one of them they got Theodore and took on a cap dump we really wanted to get rid of. Some call that overpay some would say that was a good deal.

No I don't see it being enough based on what I have seen from many Maple Leafs fans.

Fair enough, but from what I've heard, Theodore was on par with Montour.


Leafs fans are whack. Most fans are whack for that matter.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Fair enough, but from what I've heard, Theodore was on par with Montour.


Leafs fans are whack. Most fans are whack for that matter.

Montour with his showing in the playoffs with his overall game and Theodore having defensive problems Montour was ahead.

 

[randomusername101]

Just my opinion, but Nylander is a very talented player and there may be people valued equally as him at the moment, but his skills don't fall off of trees. I would probably take either Marner or Nylander over Drouin moving forward, not to say Drouin is bad but the others are far ahead of his development curve with high upsides. I think you may be under evaluating Nylander, or perhaps you simply see him as Matthews winger forever and not a potential 70+ point center.

Agree. Drouin is good, but a few years older than Nylander/Marner and hasn't cracked 60 points yet.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Well, in our scenario, I'd rather take my chance paying those three ELC's than giving one up.

And I know that, but I think we can both agree that 1. The odds of the Blues not matching is higher than that of the Leafs giving up Matthews and 2. This idea is insane anyway.

I just took issue with saying that objective value for Parayko is Matthews. In vacuum, it's not. I get the Blues rightfully value him highly, but he's not THAT valuable

No and the thing is we know that the value for Parayko is not Matthews. But that is the only hole on or roster currently so in a sense yes that is the only deal that makes sense. Nylander could possibly work if he is a surefire center, but we are creating a gap of 20-30 minutes a night for nothing less than filling the 1C hole.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

How is it ignorant if I clearly say with emphasis the ones I am sure about and mention I don't know enough about certain systems like the Canes when I don't?

Because:

1) you said JVR for Faulk straight up, then said you don't know a ton about Faulk. JVR for Faulk is terrible for Carolina. You don't know a ton about a guy that is an all star, Olympian, and has been in the Nhl for 7 years?

2). You said Pesce, who just completed his 2nd NHL season is a prospect.

If begs the question as to how valid the rest of your assessments are.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Minnesota is pretty set with their team with just Nino/Granlund/Foligno as RFAs to sign. With Scandella gone the cost to acquire either of Brodin/Dumba is Nylander. Not interested in anything else.

Same old, same old. Most Leafs fans know the dealio by now. Don't want JVR and Kapanen+1st isn't going to turn the tables.

 

[Dbrownss]

Well, in our scenario, I'd rather take my chance paying those three ELC's than giving one up.

And I know that, but I think we can both agree that 1. The odds of the Blues not matching is higher than that of the Leafs giving up Matthews and 2. This idea is insane anyway.

I just took issue with saying that objective value for Parayko is Matthews. In vacuum, it's not. I get te Blues rightfully value him highly, but he's not THAT valuable

Blues fans arent creating threads "Parayko for Matthews". We're not offering him in any way shape or form. Im not even sure if there has been a value of thread created by Blues fans. We have zero interest in trading the guy. Yet almost weekly Toronto fans keep asking for him then scoffing at the response. It is literal insanity. Keep trying the same thing hoping for a different outcome.

You talk about taking issue with the replies....then I say again...Parayko doesn't need to be brought up if your tired or take offense with it requiring Matthews. For all the "he's not worth it", leafs nation seems to entertain obnxious offer sheet scenerios to try and steal him.

 

[randomusername101]

Montour with his showing in the playoffs with his overall game and Theodore having defensive problems Montour was ahead.

Oh ok. Didn't know that.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Pesce for all of our nice things