Connor McDavid vs Jack Eichel - Round II

[Aceonfire*]

It's amazing how exaggerating the comments of one single person becomes some commentary on "people". Everyone on our board knows that poster is prone to swings of extremes, but where does he say McDavid will bust? He said "McDavid will average less than 5 points a season more" than Eichel. He went from thinking McDavid was better than Eichel to thinking McDavid is only slightly better than Eichel.

I wasn't referring to him. The CGY fan said McDavid would bust.

My point was how quickly peoples perceptions changed because the Oil won.

 

[Aceboogie]

To be fair, Edmonton doesn't have the best reputation for developing 1st overall picks.

And what about Yakupov? Say what you want about Hall and RNH but they are not where people thought they would be by this time in their careers. Hall took a huge step back this year, only scoring at a 58 point pace. RNH still hasn't even surpassed 60 points, and has been outplayed by a 4th round pick from the same draft year. Then you have the fact Yakupov has struggled tremendously.

So yea, not the best reputation when it comes to developing 1st overall picks, a reputation that has definitely been earned.

Hall has produced similar to Tavares did, and yet this is forgetten. Weve seen with a good coach RNH is a beast. Not with Eakins he was a PPG player and a very good two way player. With Yak, away from Eakins he was electric in 2015, and looked very much like a top prospect

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I wasn't referring to him. The CGY fan said McDavid would bust.

My point was how quickly peoples perceptions changed because the Oil won.

Again, are you surprised by this? You of all people should know what its like to go into threads with the purpose of dumping on a rival team's players. And when you consider the Oilers history with 1st overall picks . . .

 

[Paxon]

And what about Yakupov? Say what you want about Hall and RNH but they are not where people thought they would be by this time in their careers. Hall took a huge step back this year, only scoring at a 58 point pace. RNH still hasn't even surpassed 60 points, and has been outplayed by a 4th round pick from the same draft year. Then you have the fact Yakupov has struggled tremendously.

So yea, not the best reputation when it comes to developing 1st overall picks, a reputation that has definitely been earned.

This sure seems like splitting hairs to me. Connor McDavid doesn't need to be "developed". It's one thing to express doubt that the Oilers will support him with a roster to succeed with, but then on the other hand they have new management, so it you can't read too much into the past.

 

[Aceonfire*]

Hall has produced similar to Tavares did, and yet this is forgetten. Weve seen with a good coach RNH is a beast. Not with Eakins he was a PPG player and a very good two way player. With Yak, away from Eakins he was electric in 2015, and looked very much like a top prospect

Gaudreau has the best vision since Gretzky guys.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Hall has produced similar to Tavares did, and yet this is forgetten. Weve seen with a good coach RNH is a beast. Not with Eakins he was a PPG player and a very good two way player. With Yak, away from Eakins he was electric in 2015, and looked very much like a top prospect

Yet the Oilers chose to employ Eakins as their head coach. You know, the person most responsible for the development of young players.

Maybe the Oilers can regain some credibility, but a half season of meaningless games isn't enough.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Gaudreau has the best vision since Gretzky guys.

I thought he was the next Jordan Schroeder or Nathan Gerbe? I still stand by my comments, how about you?

 

[Aceboogie]

Yet the Oilers chose to employ Eakins as their head coach. You know, the person most responsible for the development of young players.

Maybe the Oilers can regain some credibility, but a half season of meaningless games isn't enough.

The people who made that decision are now either gone or have no power. Eakins was horrendous, plain and simple. So making calls on a player based on a season under Eakins is shortsighted

Hall away from Eakins is a ppg player and one of the best wingers in the league, thats two seasons of data, the other two he was above or on par with Tavares. RNH is also a #1C two way stud away from him. For anyone who watches RNH, hes about to break out in a big way. The only concerning one is Yak

However people love to overlook the devleopment of Eberle and Klefbom

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

This sure seems like splitting hairs to me. Connor McDavid doesn't need to be "developed". It's one thing to express doubt that the Oilers will support him with a roster to succeed with, but then on the other hand they have new management, so it you can't read too much into the past.

Agreed, and it does seem like the perception of the Oilers has shifted tremendously since the management changes. I feel like most of the "McDavid will bust" comments came directly after the lottery and before the management changes.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

The people who made that decision are now either gone or have no power. Eakins was horrendous, plain and simple. So making calls on a player based on a season under Eakins is shortsighted

Hall away from Eakins is a ppg player and one of the best wingers in the league, thats two seasons of data, the other two he was above or on par with Tavares. RNH is also a #1C two way stud away from him. For anyone who watches RNH, hes about to break out in a big way. The only concerning one is Yak

However people love to overlook the devleopment of Eberle and Klefbom

See my point above. I agree with you here. But still you can't really blame people for having a perception that McDavid's development may be negatively impacted by the Oilers.

 

[Aceboogie]

See my point above. I agree with you here. But still you can't really blame people for having a perception that McDavid's development may be negatively impacted by the Oilers.

Oh yeah I agree, especially with MacTs development year comments. However hes coming into an enviroment that not many young players have been blessed with

-He wont have #1C duties, hell be sheltered (RNH never had this, had Horcoff but did the offensive lifting). Mcdavid will have RNH to do #1, Lander and Gordon to do D-zone work

-Hell have the linemates of Hall, Yak, Eberle, Pouliout. And at worst LD/Lander/Purcell. Hall and Eberle are better linemates then Crosby has had or had when he was young

-Mcdavid will have a good coach to learn from. At best a vet in Mcclellan, at worst a solid young coach in Nelson whos developed some solid talent and proven himsel somewhat in the NHL. No more Renney/Eakins

-McDavid *should* have a better d-core to help him out. better than what Hall/RNH/Yak had

 

[Mit Yarrum]

Frankly I don't see how his D core support is going to be better. You developed Petry, then sold him off. Schultz hasn't developed at all, and your rookie defenders will be rookies.

Your D will be bad next year. Really bad.

 

[Iceman]

This forum would absolutely blow up if Eichel has a better rookie season and then McDavid turns it around the season after to get things "back in order" since apparently he is heads above everyone else in the draft.

 

[Aceboogie]

Frankly I don't see how his D core support is going to be better. You developed Petry, then sold him off. Schultz hasn't developed at all, and your rookie defenders will be rookies.

Your D will be bad next year. Really bad.

Its possible to get better by trading and signing D no?

Klefbom is a stud, and will be even better next year. Marincin will be a solid 2nd pairing guy. Both will not be green rookies like this season and last. Fayne will be a solid #4, Schultz will be an ok bottom pairing guy. Oilers will add some solid pieces with 16th OA, 2016 1st, 2nds and maybe LD.

Boychuck and Leddy were had for picks and decent prospects. Oilers will look to do the same

 

[Mit Yarrum]

If the Oilers offered you Mc David for Eichel and Girgensons , Chia would be fired and become notorious for having the the shortest GM reign in history.

I think you Sabres fans are 'spinning' in hindsight and if you won Mc David would be singing a totally different tune.

McDavid isn't worth Eichel and Girgensons.

 

[Mit Yarrum]

Its possible to get better by trading and signing D no?

Yes, but they haven't done it yet and the franchise doesn't have a recent history of being able to do so. So to say with authority the d-core will be better? No, I'll take history and the current state of the D and say it will be the same or worse.

In other words: really bad.

 

[Aceboogie]

Yes, but they haven't done it yet and the franchise doesn't have a recent history of being able to do so. So to say with authority the d-core will be better? No, I'll take history and the current state of the D and say it will be the same or worse.

You realize Chiarelli is the GM right? the guy whos obessed with D? Or do you still think Lowe and MacT are in charge?

 

[Mit Yarrum]

You realize Chiarelli is the GM right? the guy whos obessed with D?

I do realize this, yes. It will take several years of proper development and keen moves to get the stink off.

 

[Aceboogie]

I do realize this, yes. It will take several years of proper development and keen moves to get the stink off.

Not it wont. Oilers already have 2 young D making big strides (will have over 60 games under their belt) and a solid vet in Fayne. This is not to mention Nurse *could* force his way onto the the team and have a Trouba like season. Oilers can add a top pairing guy with the above assets and a solid #3.

Oilers have developed Klefbom and Marincin beautifully, and Nurse the same way upon until now.

Theyll have a d-core with actual NHL proven D and good vets vs. unrpoven rookies and bad vets

massive difference

 

[PeterCheater]

It's possible that McDavid will have 75-80 pts next season, and still be third scorer in his team if Eberle and Hall stay healthy. Not bad conditions for a rookie, right?

 

[Mit Yarrum]

Not it wont. Oilers already have 2 young D making big strides (will have over 60 games under their belt) and a solid vet in Fayne. This is not to mention Nurse *could* force his way onto the the team and have a Trouba like season. Oilers can add a top pairing guy with the above assets and a solid #3.

Oilers have developed Klefbom and Marincin beautifully, and Nurse the same way upon until now.

Theyll have a d-core with actual NHL proven D and good vets vs. unrpoven rookies and bad vets

massive difference

You're banking on the ideal case in all of your assessments. That never happens, and certainly won't this time. Your D is bad and help is still a ways off.

You're counting on rookies, bums, and poorly developed players to all have an epiphany next year. It simply won't happen.

 

[Aceboogie]

You're banking on the ideal case in all of your assessments. That never happens, and certainly won't this time. Your D is bad and help is still a ways off.

You're counting on rookies, bums, and poorly developed players to all have an epiphany next year. It simply won't happen.

Yeah man... keep on fighting the good fight

Oilers and their bad Dcore will enjoy McDavid

 

[Semantics]

-He wont have #1C duties, hell be sheltered (RNH never had this, had Horcoff but did the offensive lifting). Mcdavid will have RNH to do #1, Lander and Gordon to do D-zone work

I agree on the other points, but definitely not on this one. McDavid is going to be the Oilers best player of the gate, he's a Crosby-level prospect, and therefore already one of the best players in the world even before playing a single NHL game. Opposing teams are going to put their best defenders against him, not RNH. Maybe he'll be sheltered from defensive duties, but offensively he's the man.

 

[Aceboogie]

I agree on the other points, but definitely not on this one. McDavid is going to be the Oilers best player of the gate, he's a Crosby-level prospect, and therefore already one of the best players in the world even before playing a single NHL game. Opposing teams are going to put their best defenders against him, not RNH. Maybe he'll be sheltered from defensive duties, but offensively he's the man.

Oh yeah, hell be better than RNH, probaly out of the gate. But RNH has shown to be able to suceed in 1c role with Eberle. I think theyll get that role and let McDavid play softer minutes

Either hes ready for 1c and takes it over, or plays 2c. No rushing or forcing him to play a role like players before

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It will be interesting to see how McDavid develops his shot from the outside. Eichel already is an elite sniper (check out his beauty of an OT winner vs Slovakia).

I get the feeling this will be a Crosby type player vs Jagr type player. One dominates a bit more with quickness and vision, the other with physical tools and a powerful shot.