Player Discussion Cody Ceci | Part III

[NyQuil]

Do you think ceci is better at this role than karlsson would be

Karlsson would be better at every role on this defensive corps as it currently stands.

Except for fighting.

If only we had 6 Karlsson's.

But I'd rather see Karlsson on the top pairing and Ceci on the second, than Ceci on the top pairing and Karlsson on the second.

 

[NyQuil]

Personally, I still think improving the bottom pair will ease the burden on the top 4. Get a couple guys that Boucher trusts to take the tough mins (but maybe aren't offensive producers) and all the sudden the ~23 mins the second pair plays look very different than what they currently do.

What is frustrating is that we had defence as a position of depth not all that long ago, with Methot included, Claesson with a break-out season and Chabot on the horizon.

All it took was one surgery and one expansion draft and all of a sudden we look weak again.

Boucher is equating numbers with depth, and that just isn't convincing anyone.

But I get that he can't toss his defensive corps under the bus either.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Karlsson would be better at every role on this defensive corps as it currently stands.

Except for fighting.

If only we had 6 Karlsson's.

But I'd rather see Karlsson on the top pairing and Ceci on the second, than Ceci on the top pairing and Karlsson on the second.

Ceci is in my mind on the top pair. He gets the top matchups. Karlsson can shutdown and score on the thee rams top lines. Let him take those matchups. Let ceci get easier matchups.

 

[NyQuil]

Ceci is in my mind on the top pair. He gets the top matchups. Karlsson can shutdown and score on the thee rams top lines. Let him take those matchups. Let ceci get easier matchups.

We saw some of that in the playoffs.

Bergeron and Karlsson went head-to-head IIRC. Then he was matched up against Crosby as well.

 

[topshelf15]

We need better forwards,we are probably the worse board team in the east up front

 

[Viletho]

What is frustrating is that we had defence as a position of depth not all that long ago, with Methot included, Claesson with a break-out season and Chabot on the horizon.

All it took was one surgery and one expansion draft and all of a sudden we look weak again.

Boucher is equating numbers with depth, and that just isn't convincing anyone.

But I get that he can't toss his defensive corps under the bus either.

I don't think it is the case unless he is lying.. He said multiple time, English and french that they have a lot of depth on D, but it is not just body it is Quality depth. At least, in his mind.

Now is that depth really of the quality he is talking? That's the debate i think.

Ceci is in my mind on the top pair. He gets the top matchups. Karlsson can shutdown and score on the thee rams top lines. Let him take those matchups. Let ceci get easier matchups.

That should be a no-brainer IMO... But he plays Ceci against those guys. Let's hope Ceci took a step forward and look somewhat good while EK thrive crushing the easier matchup.

I just want Ceci to be somewhat able to handle the puck, that would be an improvement that could make a big difference, because IMO he is good at playing without the puck.. But when he get it.. that's when it got messy.. And if he cannot do it effectively, then he need a Chabot or someone who can move the puck.

That should add to your point.. Put Phaneuf/Claesson - EK and play them against the toughest matchup.. When Chabot is officially ready, put him with Ceci against those easier matchup.

We saw some of that in the playoffs.

Bergeron and Karlsson went head-to-head IIRC. Then he was matched up against Crosby as well.

Regarding the Pittsburgh matchup. It was making sense to play Karlsson/Methot vs Crosby and Phaneuf/Ceci vs Malkin

Karlsson speed matched up weel against Crosby, while Phaneuf/Ceci strength was more suitable to handle the strength of Malkin

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Do you think ceci is better at this role than karlsson would be

Nope, but the improvement from Ceci to Karlsson in that role would not be worth the massive decline from Karlsson to ??? in Karlsson's current role. Do you disagree?

 

[Ice-Tray]

Wow, that spiralled all the way to shutting down debate with logical fallacies? Way to go board! While it certainly was interesting reading, I'm pretty sure that I stated my opinion on the matter, and at no time tried to stop discussion.

I did say that given how staunchly supportive our coach is of the young defence man, I'm set to watch and see how he continues to develop with an optimistic eye, rather than adopt the opinion of those who think he's a plug and done developing.

I watch him play, like everyone else, and while he could go either way I suppose, I'm choosing to consider the opinion of the man who has decades of coaching experience, runs the team, and has access to hoards of information we don't, over random poster on the internet, several of whom do nothing but complain about every facet of the team that they can.

Look, you hard done by souls have no problem treating your personal options as absolute 'because you say so', and then cry foul play when an opinion based on stronger stuff (though not in any way absolute) disagrees with you. Take your logical fallacy crap and shove it, and take you 'he's trying to shut down discussion' and shove it as well.

I've simply shared my opinion, and said why, you keep doing you and 'discuss' on by all means. Jesus....

 

[BonkTastic]

Wow, that spiralled all the way to shutting down debate with logical fallacies?

I was waiting until we got to hypothetical ethical paradoxes before chiming in.

 

[NyQuil]

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

We need better forwards,we are probably the worse board team in the east up front

We need better D as well. Our goal tending is alright

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Ceci is in my mind on the top pair. He gets the top matchups. Karlsson can shutdown and score on the thee rams top lines. Let him take those matchups. Let ceci get easier matchups.

ewe expect Errrik Karrrrlsson to do a weeee bit a scorin' on theeeee rams top lines dooo ya

 

[DrEasy]

Take your logical fallacy crap and shove it, and take you 'he's trying to shut down discussion' and shove it as well.

I rest my case.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Nope, but the improvement from Ceci to Karlsson in that role would not be worth the massive decline from Karlsson to ??? in Karlsson's current role. Do you disagree?

I think karlsson can do what he does now playing in whatever role. So in a ecis current role. Karlsson is still dominant. And then. After karlsson. You have ceci/chabot later having a little more fun against weaker matchups.


So. I think that there is a bigger difference in karlsson in his current role to ceci as our shutdown guy than there would be with karlsson as our shutdown guy and ceci as our true 3-4. If that makes sense.

Reword: karlsson is elite in his current role. Ceci I believe is truly Terrible in his current role. With my idea. Karlsson is still elite in his new role (cecis current). And ceci would be adequate in his new role.

 

[robsenz]

So yeah...would we seriously not trade Ceci for Duchene? lol

 

[BatherSeason]

Ceci looked to be in mid-season form last night! Was it 3 turnovers that led to 3 goals, or was it only 2? He played a part in at least 2.

Who can we blame this one now so Ceci escapes unscathed?? Cowen, Weircoch, Phaneuf....ok, it must be Oduya's fault. Maybe it was the "tough minutes".

 

[NyQuil]

Ceci looked to be in mid-season form last night! Was it 3 turnovers that led to 3 goals, or was it only 2? He played a part in at least 2.

Who can we blame this one now so Ceci escapes unscathed?? Cowen, Weircoch, Phaneuf....ok, it must be Oduya's fault. Maybe it was the "tough minutes".

I think you can blame him and also acknowledge that going head-to-head with one of the greatest goal scorers of all time represents tough minutes.

Pretty sure it was the two goals that were in rapid succession that he played a major role in.

 

[Benjamin]

Already making me look bad for defending you.

He's fine for 90% of the game and then every so often he makes a brutal turnover or just puts himself in a poor position.

90% Being great and realistic mistakes all players make. The rest is Boro level stuff.

 

[Viletho]

I think you can blame him and also acknowledge that going head-to-head with one of the greatest goal scorers of all time represents tough minutes.

Pretty sure it was the two goals that were in rapid succession that he played a major role in.

He played a major role on the first goal. That's his mistake. But the second, you can highly debate that the comedy of error doesn't happen if Smith do the right and simple play just like you can find multiple mistake in succession by multiple player on the 3 goals. Like why does Pyatt send the puck where there is 2 or 3 Caps player waiting for the puck ?.. Smith losing his battle, Ceci not gaining the puck, Thompson not covering the inside against Ovechkin, Anderson not stopping that puck, granted that was a very quick release and my bad if the puck got deflected ( which i think it did )

Let's not make excuse for Ceci all the time, but let's not be blind and put everything on him.. Hell even Burrowsaurus, of all people, said that Ceci had a good game ( or 2nd period i can't tell for him), and then the bad stretch in the 3rd happen.

And also let's not be blind to the goods, because for once... compare to last season, he made good plays in the Ozone ( Pass to Turris before the spectacular save on Oduya and the pass to Brassard in OT that could have result in a Win )

 

[NyQuil]

That's true, I'd forgotten about those passes, good call.

 

[Upgrayedd]

What is frustrating is that we had defence as a position of depth not all that long ago, with Methot included, Claesson with a break-out season and Chabot on the horizon.

All it took was one surgery and one expansion draft and all of a sudden we look weak again.

Boucher is equating numbers with depth, and that just isn't convincing anyone.

But I get that he can't toss his defensive corps under the bus either.

1 season in like 10 years that are d was stabilized, if it's not a lockout it's an expansion draft, either way we are always seemingly hurt the worst by these random events, this expansion was almost extra laughable as it appears Vegas just basically trolled us. Last year was such a treat to have 4 top 4 dmen.....back to 3 for us!

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I think you can blame him and also acknowledge that going head-to-head with one of the greatest goal scorers of all time represents tough minutes.

Pretty sure it was the two goals that were in rapid succession that he played a major role in.

I want a player playing against bad top comp with whom we don't have to "let's acknowledge he had a tough minutes can't blame him too much". Maybe turris can bring in a guy like that. (Even though we already have that guy in karlsson).

 

[NyQuil]

I want a player playing against bad top comp with whom we don't have to "let's acknowledge he had a tough minutes can't blame him too much". Maybe turris can bring in a guy like that. (Even though we already have that guy in karlsson).

I get that. And I think Methot was a guy like that.

But ultimately, and maybe this is just my personal biases, sometimes you just get torched by the opposing team's best player. The best of the best challenge for trophies because they are usually pretty consistent.

If we hadn't had our 5 PP opportunities including one in OT, I'd be more critical of some of our defensive gaffes.

As it was, I place more of the blame on that than I do on Ovechkin scoring three goals.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I thought Ceci was fine. He had a few errors, but played decent otherwise. He's not a top pairing guy, so he was playing out of his element last night

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I want a player playing against bad top comp with whom we don't have to "let's acknowledge he had a tough minutes can't blame him too much". Maybe turris can bring in a guy like that. (Even though we already have that guy in karlsson).

I thought Ceci was fine. He had a few errors, but played decent otherwise. He's not a top pairing guy, so he was playing out of his element last night

last night is the role he usually plays for us.


I feel like this team isn't gonna have to be the Anti-penguins. Somewhat weak in goalscoring but stud d men.