Claude Julien - What is the plan with our Roster?

[optimus2861]

Of course its a possibility Bryson because you have no way of seeing into the future. It's always a possibility.

What a well thought out essay you posted.

Einstien said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

The Canadiens have been alienating skilled hockey players, making misguided trades, hiring management personnel based on dubious hiring criteria, putting marketing ahead of the hockey team, preaching an outdated brand of defensive & gritty hockey, poorly developing their young players, and on it goes, for over 20 years now, and I for one have seen not one shred of evidence that any of that is about to change in the near term future.

The results of the Canadiens behaviour over this time period speak for themselves; a whopping 9 playoff round victories in those same 20+ years.

There is no reason, none, to think future results will differ significantly if the Canadiens behaviour does not change.

 

[optimus2861]

You don't get anything about what I am saying because your hate for Bergevin clouds your judgment

You're damn right I hate that incompetent moron and I'll make no apology for it.

He and those twin tweedledums Therrien & Molson have driven me to hate the organization that's run my once-beloved favourite hockey team into the ground, and there's no reason to hold any optimism that anything better is coming around the corner. I was played the fool by the Canadiens far too long, and I will be their fool no longer. I will mock them and scorn them and call them out at every opportunity because nothing will get better until they are all gone, gone, gone. One down, two to go.

And if you refuse to see it that way, so be it. Enjoy your mediocrity if you can.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You're damn right I hate that incompetent moron and I'll make no apology for it.

He and those twin tweedledums Therrien & Molson have driven me to hate the organization that's run my once-beloved favourite hockey team into the ground, and there's no reason to hold any optimism that anything better is coming around the corner. I was played the fool by the Canadiens far too long, and I will be their fool no longer. I will mock them and scorn them and call them out at every opportunity because nothing will get better until they are all gone, gone, gone. One down, two to go.

And if you refuse to see it that way, so be it. Enjoy your mediocrity if you can.

I don't refuse to see it anyway. I do choose to steer away from overly excessive negative propaganda though. I don't have a problem with talking about both good and bad things towards our GM. To be honest, I think you would puke if you were force to talk about some of the good things Bergevin has done

Enjoy being cranky and thinking we would be Cup contenders today if we hired someone other than Bergevin back in 2012

 

[admiralcadillac]

Einstien said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

The Canadiens have been alienating skilled hockey players, making misguided trades, hiring management personnel based on dubious hiring criteria, putting marketing ahead of the hockey team, preaching an outdated brand of defensive & gritty hockey, poorly developing their young players, and on it goes, for over 20 years now, and I for one have seen not one shred of evidence that any of that is about to change in the near term future.

The results of the Canadiens behaviour over this time period speak for themselves; a whopping 9 playoff round victories in those same 20+ years.

There is no reason, none, to think future results will differ significantly if the Canadiens behaviour does not change.

It's easy to say these things when the team is doing poorly.

 

[CauZuki]

It's easy to say these things when the team is doing poorly.

The team has been doing poorly going on 3 seasons now...

 

[admiralcadillac]

The team has been doing poorly going on 3 seasons now...

That isn't really the point

 

[Habs Halifax]

The team has been doing poorly going on 3 seasons now...

Last season does not equal this season even if I raise my standards to your crazy levels.

 

[CauZuki]

Last season does not equal this season even if I raise my standards to your crazy levels.

So by your standards we did well last season?

Barely drag our way to the top of the worst division after going on a awful streak that saw our coach getting fired. Which was of course followed by an elimination in the first round the big and powerful Rangers.

 

[CauZuki]

That isn't really the point

How so? The poster you quoted demonstrated that our playoff outcomes have been bad for a while now.

You proceed to say that it's easy to say when the team isn't doing well , but that's his point the team hasn't been doing well for a while now. When is enough....enough?

 

[admiralcadillac]

How so? The poster you quoted demonstrated that our playoff outcomes have been bad for a while now.

You proceed to say that it's easy to say when the team isn't doing well , but that's his point the team hasn't been doing well for a while now. When is enough....enough?

No the poster was referring to my reply of a post saying there is no reason to believe things will get better and that everything is bad and has been handled badly. Not every team gets to win. It is what happens in a 30 team league. Our players just were never quite as good as we would have liked them to be. Coaching and management may have been bad as well.

Fine, but its so easy to say the team will be shit forever when things go poorly, its like beating a horse to death, then beating a dead horse, then propping it up to make it look alive again, beating it into a pulp, making a horse shaped mold with that pulp, and beating it again

 

[CauZuki]

No the poster was referring to my reply of a post saying there is no reason to believe things will get better and that everything is bad and has been handled badly. Not every team gets to win. It is what happens in a 30 team league. Our players just were never quite as good as we would have liked them to be. Coaching and management may have been bad as well.

Fine, but its so easy to say the team will be **** forever when things go poorly, its like beating a horse to death, then beating a dead horse, then propping it up to make it look alive again, beating it into a pulp, making a horse shaped mold with that pulp, and beating it again

I understand and it's never fun to cheer for a team that's performing poorly. The reality is we aren't trending in a direction that's conducive to winning (or even having a legitmate change at competing for the cup). Which to me doesn't mean it's always going to be bad , it's just recognizing that the team had some good potential in 2012 with some holes. Those holes are still here today and many elite pieces are getting older or were traded for an older player. That should be worrisome in the short term. My main concern is that we are going to hold on to Bergevin until it's too late and he's already made a desperate move to save his job.

I put the emphasis on the big picture when I discuss certain topics. I can't start debating the merits of a single move in a fishbowl if in the greater scheme of things it doesn't make sense. Sergachev for Drouin may end up being close to equal but why make this trade if it doesn't address a glaring hole while getting rid of what is essential the best trade chip we've had in years.

 

[Price is Wright]

It's easy to say these things when the team is doing poorly.

15-16 to 17-18, Habs have the 16th best record in the league.

They have been doing poorly for a while.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So by your standards we did well last season?

Barely drag our way to the top of the worst division after going on a awful streak that saw our coach getting fired. Which was of course followed by an elimination in the first round the big and powerful Rangers.

I think we didn't do poorly last season. No matter how you spin it, winning a division is not a poor season. We did have a disappointing playoffs but we outplayed the Rangers and lost. It happens but we were not winning a cup with that roster. I just don't see this as reason to throw our team and season under the bus.

Heading into this season, I did think our D was good and our team strength. I was clearly wrong and the start we had was brutal. However, this is an off year and we should accept that. Time will tell the truth but we are what... 31 games in. A little over 1/3 into the season. I was looking at stats from Oct 23 and forward earlier today because the start was so bad... It's better vs our overall record but we clearly have issues with this year's team and it's not as good as last year for sure!

Oct 23 - Dec 13
- 12-8-3 Record (ranks 14th)
- 751 Shots For (ranks 11th)
- 711 Shots Against (ranks 16th)
- 72 Goals For (ranks 8th)
- 65 goals Against (ranks 14th)
- 21.73 PP % (ranks 9th)
- 78.08 PK % (ranks 24th)

We clearly have a middle of the pack team this year and our D is not as good as it was in previous seasons! Not a good spot to be in. We need to explore trades for Patch and Pleky now IMO and rest Price and Weber as much as we can. Trying to make the playoffs is possible but unlikely and if we do, we won't be winning any cup. It takes guts but we need to take a few steps back. That is clear to me

 

[Habs Halifax]

15-16 to 17-18, Habs have the 16th best record in the league.

They have been doing poorly for a while.

Not sure including the 2015-2016 season is fair with all the long term injuries we had to key players that season.

 

[CauZuki]

Not sure including the 2015-2016 season is fair with all the long term injuries we had to key players that season.

Anybody want to shop the Habs logo?

 

[Price is Wright]

Not sure including the 2015-2016 season is fair with all the long term injuries we had to key players that season.

2015-16 January to April: 17-23-0-3
2016-17 January to April: 25-17-0-3

Yeah I don't see that big of a difference.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Anybody want to shop the Habs logo?

Spinning that into an excuse is BS! Using the 2015-2016 season where we had long term injuries to key players to support your negative propaganda is not fair and not reasonable. I agree with using this years stats but not that 2015-2016 season.

 

[Habs Halifax]

2015-16 January to April: 17-23-0-3
2016-17 January to April: 25-17-0-3

Yeah I don't see that big of a difference.

And some people say I cherry pick? This is classic cherry picking.

Listen, I'm not saying we are or were cup contenders and I never said that in the past either. Every season has ups and downs and some are worse than others. I do not agree we have been a poor team for the last 3 seasons. You have one darn good season last year standing in your way and a overall mess of injuries in the season from 2015-2016.

Where we agree is we are not having a good season this year. Exaggerating beyond that is being overly negative IMO. Just because we had another 1st round exit, it does not mean we are "poor". It means we failed to go past the 1st round. It is what it is

 

[CauZuki]

Spinning that into an excuse is BS! Using the 2015-2016 season where we had long term injuries to key players to support your negative propaganda is not fair and not reasonable. I agree with using this years stats but not that 2015-2016 season.

Omitting data because you blame it on injuries is the definition of an excuse. Let's not act like I don't want to see the Habs do well , it's clearly a question of how we are built. By your own logic we can't give Habs credit for winning the division in 2016-2017 since Tampa Bay had a crazy amount of injuries. We have to judge on these results and no justification will do , this is professional sports , team performance matters.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Omitting data because you blame it on injuries is the definition of an excuse. Let's not act like I don't want to see the Habs do well , it's clearly a question of how we are built. By your own logic we can't give Habs credit for winning the division in 2016-2017 since Tampa Bay had a crazy amount of injuries. We have to judge on these results and no justification will do , this is professional sports , team performance matters.

Excuse or reality? That debate again eh.

Yes, Using Tampa's stats from last year is not fair due to injuries. Lets play your game... Lets say the Habs don't win the division because Tampa has a healthy season and wins the division. This means we suck then because we finished 2nd? This doesn't even factor in that we don't know if Tampa wins the division with a more healthier roster too. Last year was not a poor season. Give it up

Come on man. Stop exaggerating everything to be the end of the world for the Habs. You look at me as being overly positive but I am more realistic and fair while you blow up everything to be "we suck at everything". I have talked about both positives and negatives while you inflate the negative and ignore the positives.

 

[Price is Wright]

And some people say I cherry pick? This is classic cherry picking.

Listen, I'm not saying we are or were cup contenders and I never said that in the past either. Every season has ups and downs and some are worse than others. I do not agree we have been a poor team for the last 3 seasons. You have one darn good season last year standing in your way and a overall mess of injuries in the season from 2015-2016.

Where we agree is we are not having a good season this year. Exaggerating beyond that is being overly negative IMO. Just because we had another 1st round exit, it does not mean we are "poor". It means we failed to go past the 1st round. It is what it is

As I said, we're the 16th best team in the past three seasons. That's a fair placement of the team.

 

[CauZuki]

Excuse or reality? That debate again eh.

Yes, Using Tampa's stats from last year is not fair due to injuries. Lets play your game... Lets say the Habs don't win the division because Tampa has a healthy season and wins the division. This means we suck then because we finished 2nd? This doesn't even factor in that we don't know if Tampa wins the division with a more healthier roster too. Last year was not a poor season. Give it up

Come on man. Stop exaggerating everything to be the end of the world. You look at me as being positives but I am more realistic and fair while you blow up everything to be "we suck at everything".

Did you not just see the Leafs start at a worst place than us in 2012 and turn the team into a success by 2017?

You call it realistic , I call it blind optimism the team could finish last and you'd still see as positive since we would potentially draft a top pick...That is a scenario were our management can do no wrong in your eyes. The team is trending in a bad direction or am I mistaken in saying the team in Bergevin's "vision" has had worst results than the Gainey/Gauthier built team? Bergevin said it himself the team is finally shaping up in his image and the team has had 3 worrisome seasons in a row.

- No playoffs , bottom of the barrel team in 2015-2016.
- Team with a very worrisome losing streak that lead to a coaching change , out in the first round in 2016-2017..
- Team has the worst start in recent history and is currently sitting closer to a lottery team than a playoff contender.

Who looks at these results and thinks , it's not so bad. These are horrible results , especially since we were suppose to be trending up. Multiple teams have constraints over not being able to spend to the cap and other issues relating to being a smaller market. Habs are high net worth team with an unlimited budget for coaches,management and whatever else is required to make this team a winner. Yet here we are 15% under the cap , with an under .500 record and you say "give the GM more time"....Unbelievable.

 

[Habs Halifax]

As I said, we're the 16th best team in the past three seasons. That's a fair placement of the team.

So you do think using the 2015-2016 season where we had long term injuries to key players is fair? Got Cha! Thank god for the good season we had last year eh? I would only wonder what you would be saying about our team in this case

 

[Price is Wright]

So you do think using the 2015-2016 season where we had long term injuries to key players is fair? Got Cha! Thank god for the good season we had last year eh? I would only wonder what you would be saying about our team in this case

Everyone has injuries. You deal with them. You endure. If you fall apart, you're not good enough and never were.

It's kind of... awkward for you to argue that 15-16 doesn't matter when looking at this years team. And awkward for you to not recognize that in the past two and a half seasons, the Canadiens only really had one good half season in 2016-17. Otherwise they've been mediocre.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Everyone has injuries. You deal with them. You endure. If you fall apart, you're not good enough and never were.

It's kind of... awkward for you to argue that 15-16 doesn't matter when looking at this years team. And awkward for you to not recognize that in the past two and a half seasons, the Canadiens only really had one good half season in 2016-17. Otherwise they've been mediocre.

Yearly typical injuries Does Not = Major long term injuries to several key players. Using stats in seasons like this for any team to insist they suck is cherry picking big time IMO. The 2015-2016 season was not a typical injury season most teams encounter year to year. Therefore, I believe it is not fair to use this season to evaluate our team.