Value of: Claude Giroux

[ohmyjlord]

I have this weird ambivalent feeling about the Giroux to MTL idea--on the one hand I think people are majorly sleeping on Giroux and on the other I think some Montreal fans are underestimating how readily Bergevin is willing to mortgage their future in a trade for a big name just like Giroux.

The problem is not Giroux's name...it's the contract attached to it.

If I'm Bergevin, and I'm ready to spend $8.275m to bring a center in, I'm spending that money on an offersheet for a much younger and healthier player than Giroux, who could end-up costing me a lot more "present" assets than the picks I would have to pay as compensation. Giroux would be pretty far down my list of option to be honest.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Giroux was hampered by a sports hernia which takes a year to recover from. He didn't look himself (even said injury effected play, G is not one to make excuses) this coming year but he will be back 100%

G will be a top 10 C next year. Haters can hope he's gonna falloff (like they did with Crosby before they fired their coach, and then won the cup) last year.

So....what are the excuses for the other 3 seasons? I like Giroux, but his stats have been steadily dropping for 4 straight years. It isn't an anomaly any longer.

Acting like the guy is still a PPG player and expecting a hefty return (especially with that massive cap hit) is wishful thinking at this point.

 

[Grare]

So....what are the excuses for the other 3 seasons? I like Giroux, but his stats have been steadily dropping for 4 straight years. It isn't an anomaly any longer.

Acting like the guy is still a PPG player and expecting a hefty return (especially with that massive cap hit) is wishful thinking at this point.

His stats were fine the other 3 years. Keep in mind G is a playmaker and the Flyers have literally nobody that can snipe a puck. Also, our defenseman those years have been bottom of the league and since we hired Hakstol (last two seasons) he runs system that requires fast, mobile threatening d men (we're built for that playstyle in the future, right now.. No)

G is not cooked. And that will be evident this year.

 

[LEIFey]

I'm happy keeping Giroux if that's honestly the most we can get for him. He's worth more to the Flyers than that and it would be silly to trade him while his value is at it's lowest.

At this point I only move him if I get an offer that wows me. If no one offers that, I'm happy keeping him.

 

[Ezpz]

I'm happy keeping Giroux if that's honestly the most we can get for him. He's worth more to the Flyers than that and it would be silly to trade him while his value is at it's lowest.

At this point I only move him if I get an offer that wows me. If no one offers that, I'm happy keeping him.

girouxs value isnt at its lowest. its only going to continue to go down

 

[Habs Halifax]

Paced for 70+ in each of the two seasons prior to last, but now he's a 60 pt C? Interesting

Giroux's PPG since his best season (age 24). Open your eyes. Giroux is in decline. Saying he is more likely a fringe 60 points player (+/-) is a reality at this stage. You may be right and he bounces back with a 70 pts season but the trend here shows he is in decline over the last 3 seasons. Add that his cap hit is $8.275M and there is concern. This does affect his value.

2011-2012 (Age 23/24): 1.19 PPG
2012-2013 (Age 24/25): 1.00 PPG
2013-2014 (Age 25/26): 1.05 PPG
2014-2015 (Age 26/27): 0.90 PPG
2015-2016 (Age 27/28): 0.86 PPG
2016-2017 (Age 28/29): 0.71 PPG

 

[Starat327]

girouxs value isnt at its lowest. its only going to continue to go down

I know. I wish we had someone like Phil Danault as a our 1C instead.

 

[duffy9748]

It'd be nice if people on here could see things objectively.

As a Flyers fan, I can't see him being moved unless a substantial return is coming back. He's still
a huge part of the team now and moving forward.

If I were a fan of another team, I'd absolutely be hesitant to deal a package of surplus talent for a player who has played his best hockey.

 

[Starat327]

It'd be nice if people on here could see things objectively.

As a Flyers fan, I can't see him being moved unless a substantial return is coming back. He's still
a huge part of the team now and moving forward.

If I were a fan of another team, I'd absolutely be hesitant to deal a package of surplus talent for a player who has played his best hockey.

No, we have to trade him. He's like a grenade, waiting to explode, and we have to get rid of him at cut rate prices that other teams offer.

Theres no value inusing him to shelter our recent 2nd overall pick who we hope turns in to a 1C. Absolutely none at all. There's no marketing value of having Giroux as the face of the franchise. And most importantly, literally anyone would be an upgrade to our roster if we got rid of him. How dare you imply otherwise.

 

[flyersfan018]

Giroux's PPG since his best season (age 24). Open your eyes. Giroux is in decline. Saying he is more likely a fringe 60 points player (+/-) is a reality at this stage. You may be right and he bounces back with a 70 pts season but the trend here shows he is in decline over the last 3 seasons. Add that his cap hit is $8.275M and there is concern. This does affect his value.

2011-2012 (Age 23/24): 1.19 PPG
2012-2013 (Age 24/25): 1.00 PPG
2013-2014 (Age 25/26): 1.05 PPG
2014-2015 (Age 26/27): 0.90 PPG
2015-2016 (Age 27/28): 0.86 PPG
2016-2017 (Age 28/29): 0.71 PPG

Wow it's almost like people don't put up as many points the older they get. I guess before last year Crosby was on the decline for 4 years? What a washed up scrub he is.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It'd be nice if people on here could see things objectively.

As a Flyers fan, I can't see him being moved unless a substantial return is coming back. He's still
a huge part of the team now and moving forward.

If I were a fan of another team, I'd absolutely be hesitant to deal a package of surplus talent for a player who has played his best hockey.

From one hockey fan to another. I hope Giroux rebounds into a 70 points player for you guys. However, you can't ignore the decline in stats and massive contract. You ask for people to be objective... well, you should try it as well.

The offer most Habs fans offer is Patch, + for Giroux ($1.5-$2M retained). You may feel this is not enough and I respect that but that is a solid offer. Patch is a legit top 5 goal scorer in the NHL over the last 5 years. Were not trying to acquire Giroux with peanuts . You talk to some Habs fans and they want nothing to do with Giroux because of the contract but Personally, I would be interested if the deal was right.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Wow it's almost like people don't put up as many points the older they get. I guess before last year Crosby was on the decline for 4 years? What a washed up scrub he is.

Crosby just won the Rocket Richard trophy. Bad example you are trying to use.

If you don't realize players decline with age, then none of us can help you. I have not seen anybody bash Giroux. People are just pointing out his stats are in decline and he's on a massive contract. Those are not opinions... those are facts until proven otherwise

 

[Devilsfan118]

negative value. 5 years left at almost 8.3 mil for a slow small declining production center. no thanks.

This new meta of declaring 25-30 year olds "declining" is pretty ridiculous

 

[Habs Halifax]

This new meta of declaring 25-30 year olds "declining" is pretty ridiculous

Get it right or your creating a narrative where your debating against an argument you have created yourself. And then laughing at your own joke.

Last 3 years of decline in stats. That age 27-29. Once again, not opinions, those are facts. Truth hurts sometimes

 

[Starat327]

This new meta of declaring 25-30 year olds "declining" is pretty ridiculous

We all understand his stats are declining. What others fail to realize is that the sharp drop this year and last has a lot to do with injuries.

I dont think youll find a single Flyers fan who expected Giroux to be a 1.2 ppg player for the life of his career, or this contract. But there's a huge difference between 'declining' and just being bad. There's also this widespread rule, that apparently once you are declining, you can never recover, despite being shown evidence to the contrary.

On top of that, G's value to us goes beyond his production, because we simply dont have a player capable of taking his minutes. This team looks ALOT worse when you take giroux out of it. We scored 219 Goals last year, Giroux was involved in 58 of them.

 

[hatcher]

Wow it's almost like people don't put up as many points the older they get. I guess before last year Crosby was on the decline for 4 years? What a washed up scrub he is.

Don't compare a star to a small slow skating line killer at 5 on 5 g k. It's not about points as much as hes not involved in the games much anymore. Doesn't skate well or board battle and two way he isnt that great. Faceoffs and pp is all he has and no team should trade much for that.

 

[C0DITH]

People always seem to try and make correlations between G and his decline with age. Now obviously, as guys age their production for the most part slips.

What people aren't taking into consideration is how guys point totals league wide are way down. Ovie had 69 points last year? One player broke 90 (Mcjesus). So yes totals are going down, scoring is not what it used to be, and plus the Flyers have not been a good team for the last 5 years. Add in that hernia injury and the last two years for G have been rough.

That being said, I will wager that this coming year, and the next 2 if he remains a Flyer, he will see a bump in production. That team is finally starting to bring in the youth movement and it will definitely help with the numbers game.

 

[duffy9748]

From one hockey fan to another. I hope Giroux rebounds into a 70 points player for you guys. However, you can't ignore the decline in stats and massive contract. You ask for people to be objective... well, you should try it as well.

The offer most Habs fans offer is Patch, + for Giroux ($1.5-$2M retained). You may feel this is not enough and I respect that but that is a solid offer. Patch is a legit top 5 goal scorer in the NHL over the last 5 years. Were not trying to acquire Giroux with peanuts . You talk to some Habs fans and they want nothing to do with Giroux because of the contract but Personally, I would be interested if the deal was right.

What did I say that you disagree with? I couldn't have been more clear when I said I understand the concerns a team would have in moving a package of young assets for him. I don't recall saying Pacioretty+ was peanuts either but that still isn't a deal that makes sense for the Flyers. If the Flyers move Giroux, it would be in a package for prospects close to the NHL and draft picks, not for a winger in his late 20's who is due for a big raise in the near future.

I don't think Montreal and Philly are good trading partners in a deal for Giroux.

 

[Habs Halifax]

People always seem to try and make correlations between G and his decline with age. Now obviously, as guys age their production for the most part slips.

What people aren't taking into consideration is how guys point totals league wide are way down. Ovie had 69 points last year? One player broke 90 (Mcjesus). So yes totals are going down, scoring is not what it used to be, and plus the Flyers have not been a good team for the last 5 years. Add in that hernia injury and the last two years for G have been rough.

That being said, I will wager that this coming year, and the next 2 if he remains a Flyer, he will see a bump in production. That team is finally starting to bring in the youth movement and it will definitely help with the numbers game.

Ovechkin's last 4 years of point totals (Age 28-31): 79, 81, 71, 69. Difference between highest and lowest is 12 pts

Giroux's last 4 years of point totals (Age 26-29): 86, 73, 67, 58. Difference between highest and lowest is 28 pts

 

[MSSLYNX]

Ovechkin's last 4 years of point totals (Age 28-31): 79, 81, 71, 69. Difference between highest and lowest is 12 pts

Giroux's last 4 years of point totals (Age 26-29): 86, 73, 67, 58. Difference between highest and lowest is 28 pts

So Giroux has 4 pts/year less than Ovechkin? Never read about Ovechkin having negative value.

Too much negativity in here with Habs fans starting tons of threads asking for player X but then usual group of Habs fans come in to bash player X.

 

[HuGo Sham]

So Giroux has 4 pts/year less than Ovechkin? Never read about Ovechkin having negative value.

Too much negativity in here with Habs fans starting tons of threads asking for player X but then usual group of Habs fans come in to bash player X.

Giroux is great but he's also a declining asset and point totals have been decliing. He's also injured and making A LOT of money. In a cap world, he doesn't make sense for habs. Not with that much term. People keep bringing up Weber - but the dollars aligned with PK trade. For habs to deal for Giroux they'd have to give money back - but we have no comparable contracts up front. Would much rather keep our talent on wings and trade for younger a little less talented C's or sign a guy like thornton who will ask for 3 million less

 

[Habs Halifax]

So Giroux has 4 pts/year less than Ovechkin? Never read about Ovechkin having negative value.

Too much negativity in here with Habs fans starting tons of threads asking for player X but then usual group of Habs fans come in to bash player X.

1. Open your eyes. Do you see other fans offering multiple trades to acquire Giroux? There is obvious decline and he has a massive contract. How about you go talk to other fans (not Habs fans) and see how far you get with Giroux's true value today.

2. Who are the Habs fans bashing? You are completely starting something that has no evidence. Good job! Saying Giroux has declined to a 60 pts (+/-) player is not bashing him. In today's NHL that is still a very good player. It's the combo of decline and contract is what is concerning and affects his value. Once again... OPEN YOUR EYES

 

[duffy9748]

Giroux is great but he's also a declining asset and point totals have been decliing. He's also injured and making A LOT of money. In a cap world, he doesn't make sense for habs. Not with that much term. People keep bringing up Weber - but the dollars aligned with PK trade. For habs to deal for Giroux they'd have to give money back - but we have no comparable contracts up front. Would much rather keep our talent on wings and trade for younger a little less talented C's or sign a guy like thornton who will ask for 3 million less

Well said. The two teams don't match up well considering what they want/need.

 

[Starat327]

1. Open your eyes. Do you see other fans offering multiple trades to acquire Giroux? There is obvious decline and he has a massive contract. How about you go talk to other fans (not Habs fans) and see how far you get with Giroux's true value today.

2. Who are the Habs fans bashing? You are completely starting something that has no evidence. Good job! Saying Giroux has declined to a 60 pts (+/-) player is not bashing him. In today's NHL that is still a very good player. It's the combo of decline and contract is what is concerning and affects his value. Once again... OPEN YOUR EYES

We'd rather not, because, well, we arent really interested in moving him. So what you're offering, or any fan base, for that matter, doesn't matter.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Yeah, point totals down leaguewide and playing for a team with a bad defense and little offensive depth and no good left wings. It's all inevitable decline though.

There's a bit of everything in there. One, they didn't have a real secondary threat to pull the other team's defensive assignments. That should change with the addition of Patrick and the growth of Konecny. Another, he spends like 75% of his time with Voracek, who is himself not much of a shooter. The two of them have had Raffl, Weal, and whatever repurposed right wing on their left for a couple years. That should change with the addition of Lindblom. Also a garbage defense behind them that got pinned in its own zone constantly. That should change with the addition of Sanheim and the continued growth of Provorov and Ghost.

Certainly, Giroux hasn't played with the same confidence he was a few years ago. He was extremely quick-thinking and electrifying at his best. He seems to not make the snap decisions anymore, thinks too long, passes when he should shoot or shoots when he should pass. But that's mental, and that can come back as the team improves. He's been slowed down a bit by injuries, and though he used to produce some offense with speed it was never the main driver of his greatness.

Sure, he's not going to put 85-90 up regularly again, but who is? All these people hammering away "YOU CAN'T DENY THE NUMBERS ARE GOIN DOWN!!1!1" right, but you should always put context with numbers. There is no reason the Flyers would trade him: he'll be a great anchor on an improving team. As the team ascends around him, his point totals will improve.