Claude Giroux II: Robin's Revenge

[LegionOfDoom91]

Kesler would only accept a deal to Anaheim when he was getting moved. So you can get screwed when a player has total control & you want to move them.

 

[NYCFlyer]

That's part of being broken down. Your body just isn't capable of cranking it up to the highest levels nearly as often or for any extended length without faltering again. This is a story as old as the sport itself. And to draw an analogy to a different sport, it's a lot more common for a pitcher's arm to wear out over years of fastballs than it is for a pitcher to suddenly develop a mental block like Rick Ankiel or Steve Blass.

A complete summer of training might help as he is still young enough to physically recover. The mental part is tougher (all of us who have had significant injuries I'm sure can relate). I don't think we will move him (even to the wing) at least until Patrick and perhaps Rubstov are ready to take over in say two years. I would reduce his minutes and hope he can be more effective especially later in the season and hopefully playoffs.

 

[WIP CALLER]

I think the improved offensive depth should help Giroux as well. he was typically out there against teams best defensive lines and top defenseman as we really only had 2 scoring lines for much of last year that were consistent threats to score. now that we should have 3 balanced scoring lines, and a 4th line that can hopefully chip in offensively as well, Giroux should see much better match ups as opposed to years past. if he scores below 60 points and his 5 on 5 holds steady or somehow is worse then it may be time to begin worrying. I think this will be his bounce back year as he won't be leaned on to carry the entire offense.

 

[tymed]

What are the odds of one of Laughton, Rubtsov, Vorobyev, Frost, Laczynski, MV making a convincing enough case to fill 3C by 18/19 camp already? With Filppula leaving and Lehtera likely not turning his career around, it could still be too early to experiment with Giroux on the LW at that point unless one of those young guys can do it. He'll make a good top 6 left winger at some point when we can afford to do it. We're likely going to have his contract for a long time, we need to start preserving his body as soon as we can I think and make him a more offensive guy at ES.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

What are the odds of one of Laughton, Rubtsov, Vorobyev, Frost, Laczynski, MV making a convincing enough case to fill 3C by 18/19 camp already?

You never really know for sure but that's not something I would want to bet on right now. I don't think Frost, Laczynski, or Veechione would even be in the running.

Vorobyev to me is the best bet of that group to be a center in some capacity at the NHL level in the long run. The rest it's more of a question as to whether it's center or wing.

 

[Curufinwe]

Giroux would be a better center option than any of those guys in 18-19.

 

[deadhead]

But probably not in 19-20 and the rest of his contract.
Though he'll still probably be our best PP QB option until Sanheim, Rubtsov and Frost grow up.

 

[Tripod]

But probably not in 19-20 and the rest of his contract.
Though he'll still probably be our best PP QB option until Sanheim, Rubtsov and Frost grow up.

I will take that bet.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'd take Giroux as a top 9 center option over any of these guys for the rest of this decade. Laughton and Vecchione are 23/24 and may well only be 4th line guys. Lacyznski and Vorobyev are 20 and are about to play their 2nd year college/first AHL seasons.

Rubtsov and Frost have the most upside but are 19/18 and could start their NHL careers as wingers.

 

[Tripod]

I do think in Giroux's last 1-2 years he could be moved to wing if Rubstov is ready.

Qmjhl
AHL
NHL at wing
NHL at C

If Giroux moves to wing in year 4 of his contract and Rubstov slides in, it allows for 2 more years until another C replaces Couts.....say Frost.

The only way I see Giroux moving to the wing sooner is if Vorobyev developed into more than expected.

 

[Random Forest]

If Giroux moves to wing in year 4 of his contract and Rubstov slides in, it allows for 2 more years until another C replaces Couts.....say Frost.

No need to frame it in the context of "replacing" anybody. Frost will take a roster spot that is vacated by normal turnover. It doesn't make sense to constantly frame the emergence of these young players as replacements for older players. Couturier has a very particular role that isn't likely to be filled by another player any time soon anyway.

It makes more sense to say a guy like Frost or Ratcliffe or whoever will replace Weise or Raffl or another noncore player, then work his way up, instead of suggesting our current core players will need replacing any time in the near future.

 

[tymed]

I guess it brings you to the question of ice time as well. Couts is our best ES player and should be seeing top 6 ice up the middle. Assuming that at some point Patrick claims top 6C ice over Giroux, would you relegate him to 3C role behind those 2 guys in minutes just because hes the best 3C option or would you want to add some offensive punch and move him to the wing? Our LW looks to consist of Lindblom and Weal (next 2 seasons) for the near future until someone like Ratcliffe/Strome breaks in or Rubtsov/Frost come in as wingers, so it's not like that wing couldn't use the boost probably more.

On another note though, why is it so widely assumed that Rubtsov is going to be groomed as a winger for the pros, is he that bad on the dots? He most likely plays 1C for Chicoutimi this year. With his exemption to eligibility rules, would he be permitted to be moved up to the AHL halfway through the year per say, if he was absolutely tearing the place apart?

 

[Magua]

On another note though, why is it so widely assumed that Rubtsov is going to be groomed as a winger for the pros, is he that bad on the dots? He most likely plays 1C for Chicoutimi this year. With his exemption to eligibility rules, would he be permitted to be moved up to the AHL halfway through the year per say, if he was absolutely tearing the place apart?

No one thinks he'll be groomed as a winger the next couple years (and no he can't be called up). He'll be groomed as a center because that's a steeper learning curve and more valuable. Moving to the wing from there is simple. What people think is he'll end up on this team as a winger for the very reason you just described in your first paragraph. There's a logjam for our top 9 center spots, and even assuming Giroux switches to wing (far from a given), that's 1 spot open. Likely he climbs no higher than "3C." But labels are labels, and likely he could be "3C" while getting close to as much ES ice time as our top 2 centers because that's the NHL today.

That doesn't strictly void the possibility of him at center for me. But we have a guy like Vorobyev......could he fill that spot in equal measure, if he is what we think he is? Then that allows Rubtsov to maximize his value to this team in a bigger winger role. For all the talk of what a good 2-way guy he is and a worker, he has incredible hands and skill. We have a lot of wingers who are more the PWF/support variety......we could use more pure, creative skill on the wing, and that's what he could be. He is our most purely skilled prospect, along with Laberge. He looked very very good on the wing, LW yet, of a big center like Roy. And we have better Roys. A Rubtsov-Patrick-Konecny line gives me some feels. Frost is in the same boat. And with all the possibilities, good and bad, in store in the next 5-7 years, them playing center is not closed.

 

[tymed]

I suppose to you go at it from a number of different angles and it looks good. I've only seen Rubtsov on the wing, in about 8 games, and agree he's an absolute menace there. As far a PWF support wingers go, ya we have a few in the system but you can easily make an argument for all three of V, TK, and Lindblom to be as or closer to pure, creative skill guys, and all projecting to be mid-long term fixtures in our scoring wing roles. You're right though, the possibilities are too numerous going into the future but never has speculation been so intriguing in our pool. If in cpl few years our 3rd line is something like Ratcliffe-Giroux-Allison, and Ruby's in the top 6 on the LW then I'm ok with that too.

 

[Curufinwe]

A possible 19-20 lineup if the 18-19 RFA forwards, and the 19-20 UFA forwards are no longer here.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flyers

Lindblom(23)-Patrick(21)-Konecny(22)
Rubtsov(21)-Couturier(26)-Voracek(30)
Laughton(25)-Giroux(31)-Allison*(21)
NAK(23)-Vorobyev(22)-Vecchione(26)
Weise(31), Fazleev(23)

In the AHL
Bardreau(26)
Laczynski*(22)
Marody*(22)
Kase*(22)
Warren*(22)
Twarynski*(21)
Laberge(21)
Bunnaman(21)
Salinitri*(21)
Frost(20)
Strome*(20)
Sushko*(20)
Ratcliffe(20)

 

[Tripod]

No need to frame it in the context of "replacing" anybody. Frost will take a roster spot that is vacated by normal turnover. It doesn't make sense to constantly frame the emergence of these young players as replacements for older players. Couturier has a very particular role that isn't likely to be filled by another player any time soon anyway.

It makes more sense to say a guy like Frost or Ratcliffe or whoever will replace Weise or Raffl or another noncore player, then work his way up, instead of suggesting our current core players will need replacing any time in the near future.

I am talking about replacing them as important core players in 5 years when Couts and Giroux's contracts end.

Reality is, we have our top 3 C locked in for 5 years of we want to. But replacing them in the same year would be tougher than staggering them. Giroux seems like the natural one to move to wing before that 5 years are up...in year 4 or 5.

It's also why I said Rubstov 1 year in NHL at wing. And I am saying that moving G to wing is 4 years from now...which gives plenty of time for guys to come in and replace guys like Raffl as a stepping stone. But then be ready in 5 years to replace G and Couts on the roster in those roles they currently have. Now obviously Patrick hopefully replaces G as the #1 C in the next 5 years. So expecting/ hoping that Rubstov and say Frost eventually come in and become the #2 and #3 C is quite realistic in my mind.

And again, I am saying in 4-5 years be ready. Before then they can replace others like the Raffl/Weise level guys you suggested.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Off topic of the current discussion, but I'm worried about G's shot. Maybe it was tied to his hip, but the number of obvious shots he passed up (where he would've shot in the past) was worrying. He's had the wrist issues in the past and if those have lingered and gotten worse it will be problematic. Very problematic.

Semin had wrist issues that wrecked his shot, and so did Richards. That's what I'll be watching for this year. Hopefully I'm just being paranoid.

 

[deadhead]

A possible 19-20 lineup if the 18-19 RFA forwards, and the 19-20 UFA forwards are no longer here.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flyers

Lindblom(23)-Patrick(21)-Konecny(22)
Rubtsov(21)-Couturier(26)-Voracek(30)
Laughton(25)-Giroux(31)-Allison*(21)
NAK(23)-Vorobyev(22)-Vecchione(26)
Weise(31), Fazleev(23)

In the AHL
Bardreau(26)
Laczynski*(22)
Marody*(22)
Kase*(22)
Twarynski*(21)
Laberge(21)
Bunnaman(21)
Salinitri(21)
Frost(20)
Strome*(20)
Sushko*(20)
Ratcliffe(20)

That's a ridiculously deep group of forwards.

Though I can see Rubtsov pushing Giroux off of the C3 spot, depends how fast he physically and mentally matures, he's going to be a full sized center with speed, so he has that edge, where as Giroux would be protected at LW with Patrick at center.

One of these decisions that will be made on the ice.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Off topic of the current discussion, but I'm worried about G's shot. Maybe it was tied to his hip, but the number of obvious shots he passed up (where he would've shot in the past) was worrying. He's had the wrist issues in the past and if those have lingered and gotten worse it will be problematic. Very problematic.

Semin had wrist issues that wrecked his shot, and so did Richards. That's what I'll be watching for this year. Hopefully I'm just being paranoid.

He gave the glass a workout last year on the ones he did take.

 

[Philly Fanatik]

The bloated contracts of Giroux and Voracek are becoming a issue...
The duo are 12th and 13th highest cap hit for salaries for the 2017-18 season and their stats don't match up to that 'elite' group...
Having one of those salaries is problematic but two...is nearly insurmountable!
And those guys are signed for another 5(G) and Voracek for the the next 7
Hockey is a business and you have to do what makes sense for your organization,so Hexy has to step up...Loyalty has a price and Giroux needs to waive his NTC!
Simple solution...NO! But get it done.
*Giroux + a top prospect defenseman(Montreal)
*Galchenyuk + 1st pick(Philadelphia)

 

[Stizzle]

A possible 19-20 lineup if the 18-19 RFA forwards, and the 19-20 UFA forwards are no longer here.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flyers

Lindblom(23)-Patrick(21)-Konecny(22)
Rubtsov(21)-Couturier(26)-Voracek(30)
Laughton(25)-Giroux(31)-Allison*(21)
NAK(23)-Vorobyev(22)-Vecchione(26)
Weise(31), Fazleev(23)

My lineup:

Lindblom - Patrick - Konecny
Laczynski (R) - Couturier - Voracek
Rubtsov (R) - Vorobyev - Giroux
Laughton - Vecchione - Allison (R)

(R) = Rookie. The previous season likely mostly spent in the AHL.

Obviously this depends greatly on Vorobyev having a good rookie season on the 4th line. Giroux can take faceoffs for him when needed. That line would likely be slightly sheltered anyway.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You know you're nitpicking when you complain about the 12th and 13th highest salaries for a 1C and 1RW. Neither contract is a problem. We do not have cap problems currently.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The bloated contracts of Giroux and Voracek are becoming a issue...
The duo are 12th and 13th highest cap hit for salaries for the 2017-18 season and their stats don't match up to that 'elite' group...
Having one of those salaries is problematic but two...is nearly insurmountable!
And those guys are signed for another 5(G) and Voracek for the the next 7
Hockey is a business and you have to do what makes sense for your organization,so Hexy has to step up...Loyalty has a price and Giroux needs to waive his NTC!
Simple solution...NO! But get it done.
*Giroux + a top prospect defenseman(Montreal)
*Galchenyuk + 1st pick(Philadelphia)

 

[Rebels57]

The bloated contracts of Giroux and Voracek are becoming a issue...
The duo are 12th and 13th highest cap hit for salaries for the 2017-18 season and their stats don't match up to that 'elite' group...
Having one of those salaries is problematic but two...is nearly insurmountable!
And those guys are signed for another 5(G) and Voracek for the the next 7
Hockey is a business and you have to do what makes sense for your organization,so Hexy has to step up...Loyalty has a price and Giroux needs to waive his NTC!
Simple solution...NO! But get it done.
*Giroux + a top prospect defenseman(Montreal)
*Galchenyuk + 1st pick(Philadelphia)

Can you join us back in reality now?

 

[Striiker]

The bloated contracts of Giroux and Voracek are becoming a issue...
The duo are 12th and 13th highest cap hit for salaries for the 2017-18 season and their stats don't match up to that 'elite' group...
Having one of those salaries is problematic but two...is nearly insurmountable!
And those guys are signed for another 5(G) and Voracek for the the next 7
Hockey is a business and you have to do what makes sense for your organization,so Hexy has to step up...Loyalty has a price and Giroux needs to waive his NTC!
Simple solution...NO! But get it done.
*Giroux + a top prospect defenseman(Montreal)
*Galchenyuk + 1st pick(Philadelphia)