Claude Giroux II: Robin's Revenge
- Thread starter JDinkalage Morgoone
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Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Doesn't help thst he doesn't have any consistent 5v5 goalscoring threats to play with. Playmakers need someone to set up, and he has nobody.
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
Tangent: I was going to type a response, went to http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ to check something, and it's down for good, along with its sister site, https://puckalytics.com. What do I do. Corsica can't get back online soon enough.
Anyway, response. That might explain why his scoring was 2C and not 1C level (though it was a complicated issue this year), but he put up points at worse rates than VandeVelde and Weise and most of the team. Is that really because he didn't have a sniping winger.....did they? He spent plenty of time with Simmonds, our best 5v5 goal scorer. Schenn is our 2nd best goal scorer on the team, though yes he did putrid in that regard 5v5. But you could just as easily say that there were no goal scorers on his line because he wasn't doing enough to create for them either. Two-way street. He's never really played with a true goal scoring machine anyway, besides 1 fluke year from Hartnell. It's not that his line didn't just not finish goals.......it didn't do much of anything, and he bears a ton of responsibility for that. Couturier put up numbers with the same interchangeable linemates.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Sure, that's why I said "doesn't help", instead of acting like it's the sole reason. I fully believe it's a contributing factor to recent struggles, but of course it isn't like Giroux is playing amazing and the only problem is a lack of shooters. Just a piece of the puzzle.
Curufinwe
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JojoTheWhale
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I absolutely cannot believe David Johnson got an NHL job. The man is a lunatic who can't handle constructive criticism but refused to ever show his work. Of course, it's Calgary, so yeah.
deadhead
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Think that article is right on target. G may bounce back a little this year, but 5x5 he'll be a 3rd line center in two years.
This is where Flyers got really lucky, because by next year Patrick should be our #1 center, Couts will get the tough defensive matchups, and the 4th line could have something like Laughton/AK - Rubtsov/Vorobyev - Weise/Raffl raising havoc.
So G's 5x5 minutes will be reduced by 2-3 minutes per game and he'll primarily be the PP captain. Grossly overpaid but still effective for years to come.
FatTugboatFlahr
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Why would someone ever even begin to think that. Vinny's hockey IQ was literally the worst thing I've ever seen.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
He's still a pretty good PP QB. He does drive possession in a postive way at ES. His 5v5 scoring absolutely stunk last year & has been declining though. He has become too much of a perimeter player as well. So he does deserve criticism but not to that extent as Vinny had nothing redeeming about him.
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JojoTheWhale
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I've been using FirstLineStats while we all wait for Corsica to get back up and running. I hope Manny opens a Patreon again. It's absolutely worth it to me. I already support some others like HockeyViz that I don't use nearly as much.
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CodyTheHuman
Registered User
I do winder if that is a coaching issue though. He hasn't always been like that
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Very possible.
Giroux has never been afraid of contact and is ultra competitive, don't see why that'd suddenly change.
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
Could be, could be injuries as well. I'm not even talking big hits or anything. He just sticks to the outside more now. He doesn't really get closer to the net anymore & that's pretty much a no go in today's game.
hatcher
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That's the starkest difference, for sure. Giroux when he was younger competed like crazy. Drew some Doug Gilmour comparisons. Was strong in the corners, never shied from contact, despite his size.
He's a totally different player now. I assume his body is just maimed from the way he used to play. But at ES he is going downhill like Richards.
deadhead
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Weal had no problem going to the net, and he's the same size as G.
I think G has gotten beaten up over the years and is contact shy.
Which is why he's far more effective on the PP where he has space and doesn't go near the net but sets up other players.
I think G has gotten beaten up over the years and is contact shy.
Which is why he's far more effective on the PP where he has space and doesn't go near the net but sets up other players.
Magua
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Giroux is insanely strong on pucks for his size. He's very hard to take it away from. To me it's mental, not physical.
Ghosts Beer
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He's had a ton of wear and tear over the years from the way he used to play. Multiple wrist surgeries. Multiple concussions and head/neck injuries. Hip/abdominal surgery. Countless slashes and bruises and playoff battles.
Meanwhile, the league has gotten younger and faster. It might look mental, but I just don't think he can keep up anymore.
CodyTheHuman
Registered User
I disagree. There's flashes where you see the old Giroux. He shows that he still has it in him, he just has to play like he used to.
Ghosts Beer
I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
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That's part of being broken down. Your body just isn't capable of cranking it up to the highest levels nearly as often or for any extended length without faltering again. This is a story as old as the sport itself. And to draw an analogy to a different sport, it's a lot more common for a pitcher's arm to wear out over years of fastballs than it is for a pitcher to suddenly develop a mental block like Rick Ankiel or Steve Blass.
Prongo
Beer
If he has another season with 50-60 points where his 5x5 declines again, it's time to worry.
I feel like it's a huge season for Giroux, rumors out there earlier in the summer that the Flyers weren't offering him but when teams called they didn't say they wouldn't listen.
Again I believe Montreal would over pay for him to come and be their #1 center. Somebody mentioned Ottawa as well but I don't see them paying him the amount of money he is owed.
Also he has a lot of say but when a team says they are looking to move you most cases the player will waive the NMC. Who wants to be on a team looking to move you.
I feel like it's a huge season for Giroux, rumors out there earlier in the summer that the Flyers weren't offering him but when teams called they didn't say they wouldn't listen.
Again I believe Montreal would over pay for him to come and be their #1 center. Somebody mentioned Ottawa as well but I don't see them paying him the amount of money he is owed.
Also he has a lot of say but when a team says they are looking to move you most cases the player will waive the NMC. Who wants to be on a team looking to move you.
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