Cincinnati, Kansas City, and Omaha have shown interest in NHL expansion

[Stumbledore]

Can you name who won MLS Cup last season? Can you name who won the Stanley Cup last season? Or ask the next x-amount of Americans you come across.

Yeah, if I was given a minute to think about it. Then again, I'm 78 so maybe five minutes...

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I would prefer Indianapolis and Milwaukee to Cincinnati and Omaha.

Atlanta, Houston, KC, Quebec and SLC are fine though.

I want the NHL to do a five-division alignment as follows with expansion teams:

Central: Chicago, Columbus, Detroit, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Minnesota, St. Louis

East: Boston, Buffalo, New Jersey, NY Islanders, NY Rangers, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington

North: Calgary, Edmonton, Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec, Toronto, Vancouver, Winnipeg

South: Atlanta, Carolina, Dallas, Florida, Houston, Nashville, New Orleans, Tampa Bay

West: Anaheim, Arizona, Colorado, Los Angeles, San Jose, Seattle, Utah, Vegas

The regular season schedule format would see each team play 50 division games, 7 against 6 opponents and 8 against the other one. Division matchups that get played 8 times would rotate every year. All non-division games get played once, alternating home ice every year.

For the playoffs, the top four teams in each division qualify. The American teams would stage their playoffs until each division has crowned a playoff champion. At that point the North Division starts their playoffs to determine one bid in the Stanley Cup Finals, while the remaining American teams are re-seeded and play for the other spot in the Stanley Cup Finals.

 

[hammer42]

A 2nd team in southern Ontario (Hamilton) would mainly draw the from city , Kitchener , Guelph & southwestern Ontario those untapped areas would benefit from a regional team based in Hamilton .

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Yeah, if I was given a minute to think about it. Then again, I'm 78 so maybe five minutes...

If it makes you feel any better I am approximately half your age yet when I go upstairs I almost never remember why.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I knew that there was some resistance to the NHL in the market so thanks for clarifying.

If a new arena is built KC needs to learn from Calgary's hideous, disastrous arena deal and demand that it be privately built by the franchise owners.

As far as I know, KC arena has been profitable for the city.

But then again if NHL or NBA comes they will demand all the revenue for "operating" the arena.

 

[Mike Jones]

As far as I know, KC arena has been profitable for the city.

But then again if NHL or NBA comes they will demand all the revenue for "operating" the arena.

That's what I hear too. Calgary's arena would be profitable too if the Flames left for Atlanta or some other city. As it stands, there's no way we'll recover our investment with the Flames sucking all the cash out of the place.

 

[HisIceness]

Well, none of these small markets have NBA teams so they make more sense to me than Salt Lake City. I doubt they happen but who the hell really knows, at least KC has the arena.

 

[DaveG]

As far as I know, KC arena has been profitable for the city.

But then again if NHL or NBA comes they will demand all the revenue for "operating" the arena.

This is correct and the biggest reason why there has been essentially no noise about bringing either an NHL or NBA team to the city since the Penguins ended up staying. It didn't take them long to figure out that it just makes more financial sense for the city to maintain control of the arena and have a huge number of days for various acts to select during the year that arenas that have NBA, NHL or both just can't.

 

[Tawnos]

This is correct and the biggest reason why there has been essentially no noise about bringing either an NHL or NBA team to the city since the Penguins ended up staying. It didn't take them long to figure out that it just makes more financial sense for the city to maintain control of the arena and have a huge number of days for various acts to select during the year that arenas that have NBA, NHL or both just can't.

I've never really bought this reasoning. T-Mobile has a nice number of events going on that make the arena profitable, but they have open dates (from here to the end of the NHL regular season) on:

Feb 6-7
Feb 11-12
Feb 15-16
Feb 18-Mar 1
Mar 4-6
Mar 17-20
Mar 24-25
Mar 27-Apr 5
Apr 8-Apr 10
Apr 12-Apr 18

They'd be easily able to *add* 15 NHL games to their current schedule, allowing them to make the money they make now plus whatever the NHL team is paying in rent and the concessions/parking agreements.

The reality is that without an NHL or NBA team, the arena is not as profitable as it could be. That doesn't mean they aren't satisfied with where they are, but it's not the same as saying it makes more financial sense to do it this way.

 

[dj4aces]

Meanwhile, folks in Omaha are trying to figure out who sent Bettman a "long email expressing interest". It seems that no one there really believes Omaha is remotely close to a serious contender to land a franchise. According to the writer, no one seems to know, but they'd "love to find out".

The linked article is paywalled, but that paywall only seems to work sometimes. I could read it the first time, but the second time accessing the page prompts me to pay for it.

 

[rojac]

This may have already been covered, im a bit behind in this thread, but in an interview a year or so ago Lamar Hunt said the NHL isnt coming to KC and that city could not support an NHL team. I am paraphrasing here but that is the gist of what he said.

Also, the KC arena is already 15 years old. The KC Royals are looking at a new stadium. The NHL isnt going to go into a new market at the same time as an existing team is opening a brand new stadium that is going to draw a lot of local interest (at least for a year or two). If the NHL was going to go into KC it likely wont be for at least 5 years and at that point the arena is over 20 years old.

The Predators began play in Nashville in Fall 1998, less than one year before the Titans opened their new stadium.

 

[sh724]

I knew that there was some resistance to the NHL in the market so thanks for clarifying.

If a new arena is built KC needs to learn from Calgary's hideous, disastrous arena deal and demand that it be privately built by the franchise owners.

I would not call it 'resistance', more the only family that would conceivably do it doesnt think it would work. Hunt is a big hockey fan and he would absolutely love to bring the NHL to KC, but he doesnt think the city could support another team.

 

[rojac]

Well, none of these small markets have NBA teams so they make more sense to me than Salt Lake City. I doubt they happen but who the hell really knows, at least KC has the arena.

The three cities actually used to have the same NBA team. The Cincinnati Royals (originally the Rochester Royals) played in the NBA from 1954-72 before becoming the Kansas City-Omaha Kings (name changed because the Kansas City Royals already existed). The team split home games between Kansas City and Omaha. Eventually, they dropped Omaha from the name and a few years later, they stopped playing any home games there. In 1985, the team moved to Sacramento.

 

[These Are The Days]

Having been through Omaha several times, it's not a bad idea for expansion. It looks like a wonderful place to live. But history has taught me I have very different ideas than the majority. And if people are gonna cry, fuss, bitch, moan and complain endlessly about Winnipeg and the Alberta teams then wait til you see Omaha.

 

[Mike Jones]

I would not call it 'resistance', more the only family that would conceivably do it doesnt think it would work. Hunt is a big hockey fan and he would absolutely love to bring the NHL to KC, but he doesnt think the city could support another team.

And he and people around him should know. There are a lot of former professional players and executives in town there and I think they're all tied in enough to keep each other informed.

 

[KevFu]

I pointed out that it's not a competition between Quebec and Western cities, and immediately, this thread turned into a competition of fan bases lobbying for their cities over others.

I think there's a faulty assumption in all this; that the league picks CITIES. They don't. They pick OWNERS who come to them with the money and a plan for a franchise in a city that doesn't have a team.

Third I bring this up the Toronto & Buffalo excuse is that an excuse an old excuse there is plenty of territory to go around

just look at some of the teams on USA eastern seaboard the Islanders , Rangers , Devils & Flyers look at how there bunched together at pretty much the same distance as Toronto , Buffalo are to Hamilton & don't say it different because it is not the only difference it is Canadian not American & by be American makes it ok .

The major difference is the NHL territory rules. Hamilton is within the 50-mile distance of TOR/BUF. While Philadelphia and New York are well over 50 miles apart.

This is why it's not an "excuse." It's the procedures of the league. For Hamilton to get a team, they have to have an agreement with Toronto and Buffalo first. And since Toronto's stance is "over our dead body," that's the problem, not the NHL.


The Rangers accepted the Islanders because of the WHA. William Shea (from the Mets' Shea Stadium name), pointed out to the Rangers that there was going to be a rival team in New York either way, so they might as well get paid for it by inviting them to the NHL instead.

And more importantly, if the NHL added a team in Nassau Coliseum, where would a New York WHA team play? The NHL loved the idea of trying to lock the WHA out of New York, so they added the Islanders, with the agreement that they couldn't rent their arena to a WHA team.


The Devils tried for 3-4 years to move to New Jersey. They negotiated a deal to play out of MSG while the arena was being built, but the Flyers were dead-set against the move. It took four years of negotiations before the Flyers agreed, by which time the arena construction was complete. I'd assume the NHL was involved in getting Snider to back off, since the league just saw the Oakland/Cleveland franchise get merged with the North Stars and wanted to avoid further contraction.

And the Kings' owner was kind of a con man with debts, and wanted free money from Disney, so he brought the idea to the NHL.


It's not "The NHL" against Hamilton. It's Toronto. Period.

 

[hammer42]

You are right on Toronto being just within 50 miles of Hamilton might have an argument but Buffalo's territory ends 14 miles outside of Hamilton plus there is boarder there so Buffalo have no claim to Hamilton market .

Did you know New Jersey was not the first choice for Colorado Rockies to relocate to it was Hamilton & all the territory stuff was taken care of & all set to but Hamilton's mayor at time completely screwed it up & that is why you have the Devils today .

So any prospective owner of a Hamilton NHL. team would just have work out something with the Leafs because there plenty of market to go around & a Hamilton team could be just regional team for the western half of the province .

I don't get why this territory thing is an issue because both cities of CFL. teams in the Toronto Argonauts & Hamilton Tiger Cats that have been playing side by side for over a 150 years why is NHL. hockey the exception .

 

[dj4aces]

You are right on Toronto being just within 50 miles of Hamilton might have an argument but Buffalo's territory ends 14 miles outside of Hamilton plus there is boarder there so Buffalo have no claim to Hamilton market .

If I recall correctly, territory is measured as a radius of 50 miles outside the city limits, at the closest points between the two city limits.

The closest point to Hamilton's city limits that Buffalo's city limits extends to is at roughly 42.94 N, 78.91 W, in the middle of the Niagara River, on the US/CA border. The closest point to Buffalo's city limits that Hamilton's city limits extends to is at roughly 43.14 N, 79.66 W. The exact coordinates point to an area that looks like it's in the middle of nowhere, but it's Hamilton city limits, so it counts. Anyhow, If we plug these coordinates into a tool like this, you'll see this (link goes directly to the below map; full coordinates provided by Google Maps)

Hamilton is within Buffalo territory by roughly nine miles, by this measure.

As for the question of why Hamilton and Toronto can exist side-by-side in the CFL, there might not be any rules defining what team's market territory is in the CFL.

 

[Jets4Life]

And yet: "In 2022, MLS regular season matches averaged 343,000 TV viewers, nearly the same as an NHL game." (Forbes, 2023/09/29)

And yet: "Soccer as a whole is more popular in search term in US over hockey. MLS was more popular than NHL since 2005, and only now NHL is taking over." (Quora, 2023/07/05 - boldface theirs.)

And yet: "With the World Cup being here in 2026, the Apple TV deal...MLS will soon eclipse the NHL." (Guardian, 2023/02/20)

All of that is BS....the NHL enjoys far higher ratings than the MLS. In fact, it is not even close.

You are right on Toronto being just within 50 miles of Hamilton might have an argument but Buffalo's territory ends 14 miles outside of Hamilton plus there is boarder there so Buffalo have no claim to Hamilton market .

Did you know New Jersey was not the first choice for Colorado Rockies to relocate to it was Hamilton & all the territory stuff was taken care of & all set to but Hamilton's mayor at time completely screwed it up & that is why you have the Devils today .

So any prospective owner of a Hamilton NHL. team would just have work out something with the Leafs because there plenty of market to go around & a Hamilton team could be just regional team for the western half of the province .

I don't get why this territory thing is an issue because both cities of CFL. teams in the Toronto Argonauts & Hamilton Tiger Cats that have been playing side by side for over a 150 years why is NHL. hockey the exception .

New Jersey was always the #1 choice for the relocation of the Rockies. In 1978, just 2 years after Denver obtained a team, there was serious talk of them moving to NJ. Your pro-Hamilton bias is blinding you from facts. The NHL is not coming to Hamilton.

 

[Jets4Life]

We will see in October 2025 that is when the FOC. renovations are going to be complete & do you really think the Mercanti family who are worth billions that are funding this reno are doing it for an OHL or AHL team NO you don't throw $300 million dollars to renovate a world class arena increase it size to 19.000 for Junior or Semi Pro team you do it for an NHL. team or some other major sports team so you don't here any thing about Hamilton & the NHL. now that will change once the arena is done because the area's between Hamilton , Guelph , Kitchener & London are huge lucrative market with freshly renovated 19.000 seat FOC. in that area would make ideal for a regional NHL. team that would not be called Hamilton but Ontario or Upper Canada .

Look at what happened in Quebec City a few years ago. They are no closer to landing an NHL team, than when Le Colisee was the main arena.

"People who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it."

 

[Jets4Life]

A 2nd team in southern Ontario (Hamilton) would mainly draw the from city , Kitchener , Guelph & southwestern Ontario those untapped areas would benefit from a regional team based in Hamilton .

This is just not true.

An NHL team would draw from Hamilton, and it's immediate suburbs. There are very few people who will make the commute from K-W, Guelph, Brantford, etc. They may make the commute to see the Leafs play in Hamilton, but that is about it.

 

[JMCx4]

Meanwhile, folks in Omaha are trying to figure out who sent Bettman a "long email expressing interest". It seems that no one there really believes Omaha is remotely close to a serious contender to land a franchise. According to the writer, no one seems to know, but they'd "love to find out".

The linked article is paywalled, but that paywall only seems to work sometimes. I could read it the first time, but the second time accessing the page prompts me to pay for it.

From my first access to the Omaha World-Herald article you linked ...

... I called around town on Monday to see where the email came from. Nobody knew.

"We’re all trying to figure that out," said Mark Rath, director of sports for Visit Omaha.

Kristyna Engdahl, vice president of commu(nic)ations at MECA [Metropolitan Entertainment & Convention Authority], said the organization that runs the CHI Health Center didn’t know anything about it. ...

For the record, the CHI Health Center seats 17,100 for hockey — which would rank with Anaheim, Nashville, Seattle and the New York Islanders and above New Jersey and Winnipeg arenas. ...

I’m sure a lot of fans would like to find out. There’s a lot of money in this town. But it wouldn’t be cheap for Joe Hockey Fan. MECA President Roger Dixon has told me in the past that a NHL exhibition game hasn’t come to Omaha because it’s too expensive. The NHL wants too much money. ...

 

[CTHabsfan]

I would prefer Indianapolis and Milwaukee to Cincinnati and Omaha.

Atlanta, Houston, KC, Quebec and SLC are fine though.

I want the NHL to do a five-division alignment as follows with expansion teams:

Central: Chicago, Columbus, Detroit, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Minnesota, St. Louis

East: Boston, Buffalo, New Jersey, NY Islanders, NY Rangers, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington

North: Calgary, Edmonton, Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec, Toronto, Vancouver, Winnipeg

South: Atlanta, Carolina, Dallas, Florida, Houston, Nashville, New Orleans, Tampa Bay

West: Anaheim, Arizona, Colorado, Los Angeles, San Jose, Seattle, Utah, Vegas

The regular season schedule format would see each team play 50 division games, 7 against 6 opponents and 8 against the other one. Division matchups that get played 8 times would rotate every year. All non-division games get played once, alternating home ice every year.

For the playoffs, the top four teams in each division qualify. The American teams would stage their playoffs until each division has crowned a playoff champion. At that point the North Division starts their playoffs to determine one bid in the Stanley Cup Finals, while the remaining American teams are re-seeded and play for the other spot in the Stanley Cup Finals.

The North Division would be guaranteed a spot in the Stanley Cup Finals- is that your way of apologizing to those teams and their fans for putting them in a division covering four different time zones?

 

[powerstuck]

And what point is that?

Coyotes are being paid by the 31 other teams to be part of the league, for whatever the reasons.

 

[GKJ]

I would prefer Indianapolis and Milwaukee to Cincinnati and Omaha.

Atlanta, Houston, KC, Quebec and SLC are fine though.

I want the NHL to do a five-division alignment as follows with expansion teams:

Central: Chicago, Columbus, Detroit, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Minnesota, St. Louis

East: Boston, Buffalo, New Jersey, NY Islanders, NY Rangers, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington

North: Calgary, Edmonton, Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec, Toronto, Vancouver, Winnipeg

South: Atlanta, Carolina, Dallas, Florida, Houston, Nashville, New Orleans, Tampa Bay

West: Anaheim, Arizona, Colorado, Los Angeles, San Jose, Seattle, Utah, Vegas

The regular season schedule format would see each team play 50 division games, 7 against 6 opponents and 8 against the other one. Division matchups that get played 8 times would rotate every year. All non-division games get played once, alternating home ice every year.

For the playoffs, the top four teams in each division qualify. The American teams would stage their playoffs until each division has crowned a playoff champion. At that point the North Division starts their playoffs to determine one bid in the Stanley Cup Finals, while the remaining American teams are re-seeded and play for the other spot in the Stanley Cup Finals.

So you basically have 5 divisions, 4 of which are in one conference, and one is its own, who only play half of a playoffs? This has to be a put-on