Cat to the table: Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine

[Coach]

Disagree with this. You can never have enough dominant Centres.
Even the Oilers would of pick Matthews and have a 1/2 centre depth that would rival the Pens.

Sure add in the 8.5 million they pay Drai and the salary they pay RNH. They would have about 60% of their cap on their 4 Centres. With no money to pay anyone else.

 

[libertarian]

Sure add in the 8.5 million they pay Drai and the salary they pay RNH. They would have about 60% of their cap on their 4 Centres. With no money to pay anyone else.

RNH would be gone as soon as he finished his ELC. Great C's are so much more valuable then any winger.

 

[Coach]

Do you think it's possible to stop with what Laine's stats might have been if he was not injured in his rookie season? I understand why you mention them, however they are nothing more than fictional and there is still no guarantee Laine would have scored in all the games he missed. As for Laine being a whole 7 months younger who cares, because the Calder voters did not despite Jets fans saying they would. The only thing I will give you is Laine has a great shot, although Matthews shot can be just as lethal when he's close to the net.

So can Laine fans stop mentioning he was injured last year but fine if Leaf fans keep bringing up this seasons missed games by Matthews. It works both ways. We will sop mentioning last year if Leaf fans stop using it this year. That is why cumulative totals for the 2 years is fair it includes both athletes injured year.

 

[Coach]

RNH would be gone as soon as he finished his ELC. Great C's are so much more valuable then any winger.

Funny how I always hear Edmonton fans mentioning how they would love to have Laine to play with McDavid but yet I've never heard a single one say I wish we could have Matthews join our team.

 

[Coach]

RNH would be gone as soon as he finished his ELC. Great C's are so much more valuable then any winger.

RNH ELC has been over for a number of years.

 

[tacogeoff]

I don't even know how Laine only has 31%. Clearly Laine has put together the better two seasons combined. His power play presence has been ridiculous and now his 5 on 5 play is improving. I cant wait until next season when he finally receives first line minutes, he is going to blow some minds.

 

[Peggy]

After Matthews rookie season I don't remember any Leafs fans who claimed he was going to be a better goal scorer than Laine, even though he ended up with 40 goals compared to the 36 goals Laine scored.

For anyone to suggest that Laine will be the better scorer from now one is still to early to predict and because Laine is still doing all this while Matthews is injured.

then you're blind

how are you even responding to these posts not being able to see

 

[Critical13]

I don't even know how Laine only has 31%. Clearly Laine has put together the better two seasons combined. His power play presence has been ridiculous and now his 5 on 5 play is improving. I cant wait until next season when he finally receives first line minutes, he is going to blow some minds.

Clearly how, exactly?

A winger who's PPG is about 1 point per season better vs a 2 way 1st line C who score 1 less point.

I think Jets fans will regret all this ridiculous boasting going on right now. They did the same thing last year, and then the sample size evened out and Matthews was the obvious pick. Then the forums were flooded with Laine hate.

Unfortunately, because Jets fans are really confident right now and enjoying themselves, the retribution will be the same style of Leaf fan boasting in this thread when Matthews has his eventual surge back to the top, and the posts will be just as annoying. Endless cycle of dick measuring on a little niche forum in the corner of the internet.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

First of all I was replying to a comment of someone saying they don’t see an indication of Laine being a better goal scorer...

Secondly Laine is better in quality of shots agaisnt... So don’t act as if Matthews is a Two-Way god in this thread

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Thirdly, he did it a couple games ago(surpassed Matthews in PPG).

Fourthly, do you have any proof Laine has been playing sheltered minutes agaisnt lower competition? For instance from my viewings tonight he was up agaisnt Ovechkins line for a majority of his and Ovies night(this is anecdotal but I only noticed this because it was kind of a Laine vs Ovie game). There is no evidence that you can show me that proves this because it’s not true and is a follow up excuse that you want to pepper on to your weak arguments.

I choose the Gernerational Goal Scoring Winger over the Elite Goalscoring #1 Center(his Two-Way game is overrated).

I think a case can be made Laine is better, though I would agree with some that say they are pretty even right at this moment.

The Center - Winger argument is a non point to me when discussing better players. IE. I would not say Gretzky is better than Orr just because Center>D man or vice versa. This is simply a cop out.

What I look for is production, projection, ceiling and peak.

Laine already holds the edge on Matthews statistically, and is a year younger or more precisely 7 months the length of one season.

He got off to a mediocre start, but has now already passed Matthews career high in goals with 41, and is just 5 points back of Matthews 69 points with 13 games to play. Laine has also added a physical element to his game making him more impactful, and for those watching he is a very conscientious defensive player as the last couple of games he has back checked diligently coming back and breaking up odd man rushes. He is 5 v 5 threat as well as being one of the most impactful PP players in the NHL.

So at the very least at age 19, Laine is as good as Matthews, if not better if one factors in recent play and trajectory.

Both we can agree on will be great NHL'ers.

But for a player to player comparison. It is close now. In the future I suspect Laine will separate himself from Matthews and will be known as the better player.

 

[DatSnipeMatthews]

I don't even know how Laine only has 31%. Clearly Laine has put together the better two seasons combined. His power play presence has been ridiculous and now his 5 on 5 play is improving. I cant wait until next season when he finally receives first line minutes, he is going to blow some minds.

Wingers are way less valuable than centers.

 

[Asiantuntija]

Wingers are way less valuable than centers.

We are talking about which one is better player.

 

[Peggy]

Clearly how, exactly?

A winger who's PPG is about 1 point per season better vs a 2 way 1st line C who score 1 less point.

I think Jets fans will regret all this ridiculous boasting going on right now. They did the same thing last year, and then the sample size evened out and Matthews was the obvious pick. Then the forums were flooded with Laine hate.

Unfortunately, because Jets fans are really confident right now and enjoying themselves, the retribution will be the same style of Leaf fan boasting in this thread when Matthews has his eventual surge back to the top, and the posts will be just as annoying. Endless cycle of dick measuring on a little niche forum in the corner of the internet.

nah. leafs fans were always talking shit about the jets
the jets have been more right in the end than leafs fans
jets are 2nd in their division with more points(not a bubble team)
and laine is out performing Matthews atm, injured or not
and sustaining a ~17% for shooting
they called laine's goals last year a fluke and now he's doing even better

sometimes you gotta admit you're wrong. instead you keep saying "just you wait"

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't even know how Laine only has 31%. Clearly Laine has put together the better two seasons combined. His power play presence has been ridiculous and now his 5 on 5 play is improving. I cant wait until next season when he finally receives first line minutes, he is going to blow some minds.

The obvious explanation is that your contention that Laine has been clearly better is wrong.

nah. leafs fans were always talking **** about the jets
the jets have been more right in the end than leafs fans
jets are 2nd in their division with more points(not a bubble team)
and laine is out performing Matthews atm, injured or not
and sustaining a ~17% for shooting
they called laine's goals last year a fluke and now he's doing even better

sometimes you gotta admit you're wrong. instead you keep saying "just you wait"

This post is pretty funny. You complain about Leafs fans talking **** and you post this nonsense?

WPG and TOR are 5th and 6th overall, seems pretty close to me. And are you implying that the Leafs are a bubble team?

 

[Peggy]

The obvious explanation is that your contention that Laine has been clearly better is wrong.



This post is pretty funny. You complain about Leafs fans talking **** and you post this nonsense?

WPG and TOR are 5th and 6th overall, seems pretty close to me. And are you implying that the Leafs are a bubble team?

what are you talking about?
are the jets a bubble team? then what shit am I talking
if you think I'm implying that the leafs are I am not lol
you know what they say when you assume things

 

[Kelly]

It's pretty telling that since Matthews has been injured and Laine has been red hot there has been like 5 Matthews/Laine threads made -- where as before when Matthews was clearly having the superior season I really don't remember any.

Shows what fanbase is comfortable in the player they have, while the other fanbase is dying for reassurance because of an insecurity.

Not a chance I'd ever trade Matthews for Laine -- who I think is a wonderful player and is/will be a top 3 goal scorer for the rest of his career -- I just don't trade a do it all C, who is also going to be a top 5 goal scorer for him.

Similar tiers of players, but I'm ECSTATIC with having Matthews and not Laine, though he would've been a good consolation prize if we hadn't won the 1st place lottery.

 

[Snippit]

Matthews is the far superior 5v5 player.

This one is obvious.

 

[tacogeoff]

It's pretty telling that since Matthews has been injured and Laine has been red hot there has been like 5 Matthews/Laine threads made -- where as before when Matthews was clearly having the superior season I really don't remember any.

Shows what fanbase is comfortable in the player they have, while the other fanbase is dying for reassurance because of an insecurity.

Not a chance I'd ever trade Matthews for Laine -- who I think is a wonderful player and is/will be a top 3 goal scorer for the rest of his career -- I just don't trade a do it all C, who is also going to be a top 5 goal scorer for him.

Similar tiers of players, but I'm ECSTATIC with having Matthews and not Laine, though he would've been a good consolation prize if we hadn't won the 1st place lottery.

I can reaassure you that Matthews is going to be a great player. He wont be on Laine's level but he is going to be a stud.

 

[Gary Nylund]

what are you talking about?
are the jets a bubble team? then what **** am I talking
if you think I'm implying that the leafs are I am not lol
you know what they say when you assume things

jets are 2nd in their division with more points(not a bubble team)

Seems like a strange thing to say in the context of this discussion. Perhaps you could explain what your point it (assuming you have one).

 

[4thline]

and sustaining a ~17% for shooting
they called laine's goals last year a fluke and now he's doing even better

If you're going to rant about things, get them right.

His goals and shooting percentage were called unsustainable when they were in the neighbourhood of 23% and on pace for a 60 goal season in mid November ish.

"I wouldn't doubt that he's among if not the best now, and that his career may push the previously accepted upper boundaries of 17-18. To 19-20 though, not the 23-25 that people hoping. Comparing that 23-25 to 17-18 is where the 25-33% better than the current best."

I did wait, and I was right.

 

[La Masse]

I can reaassure you that Matthews is going to be a great player. He wont be on Laine's level but he is going to be a stud.

Lol Matthews brought the last place team to a playoff spot the year he was drafted. To say they wont be on the same level is kinda crazy they will forever be linked together

 

[DatSnipeMatthews]

We are talking about which one is better player.

'which one is [a] better player'.

And it's Matthews because he does so much more than just score goals.

 

[Menzinger]

Long term is fairer(Laines trajectory puts him ahead but nothing’s indefinite), but there is plenty of evidence suggesting Laine is a better Goal Scorer today, your just to biased to look for the evidence(for fudge sake I replied to you with the evidence, this is absolutely absurd) and not make excuses behind them once you notice them. Laine today is a much better goal scorer.

Long term should be favoured in Laines favour, he’s younger he’s scoring at pace for 48 Goals with less than 17 minutes per game and is nearly a year younger than Matthews. Again nothing is indefinite, Matthews is a very good player but it’s doubtful he can keep up in the Goal scoring department due to the fact that Laine has an all-time great shot and a lot of Elite Offensive tools to play with behind that shot.

I agree they are neck in neck offensively but Laine is clearly head over head the better Goal scorer.

It’s the problem of small sample sizes - Matthews is a dominant even strength scorer, but his power play production has been neutered this season, in part due to being used on the 2nd unit.

With slight uptick in power play production (ie more in line to his first season), we should expect the two to be neck and neck next year in terms of goal season - especially if both players remain healthy.

 

[Peggy]

jets are 2nd in their division with more points(not a bubble team)

Seems like a strange thing to say in the context of this discussion. Perhaps you could explain what your point it (assuming you have one).

my original point. leafs fans talked a lot of shit last year and they were a bubble team.
the roles have not been reversed because the jets are not a bubble team this year

 

[Peggy]

If you're going to rant about things, get them right.

His goals and shooting percentage were called unsustainable when they were in the neighbourhood of 23% and on pace for a 60 goal season in mid November ish.



I did wait, and I was right.

no. I know what I'm talking about. you were not apart of the conversation nor do you know what conversations I'm referring to.
a lot of the talk was about how he couldn't shoot that high. well it's still high and has more goals this season
so the haters are wrong

and you're playing with semantics by bringing up 23 percent

 

[Gary Nylund]

my original point. leafs fans talked a lot of **** last year and they were a bubble team.
the roles have not been reversed because the jets are not a bubble team this year

I see. So basically you're referring to an idiotic pissing match between two fan bases while making your own contribution to said pissing match. Got it.

WPG is still my #2 team to cheer for after the Leafs. Go Jets!