Cat to the table: Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine

[tacogeoff]

Lol Matthews brought the last place team to a playoff spot the year he was drafted. To say they wont be on the same level is kinda crazy they will forever be linked together

Fredrick Andersen, Marner and Nylander looked at your post, leaned back and all had a good laugh.

 

[Critical13]

nah. leafs fans were always talking **** about the jets
the jets have been more right in the end than leafs fans
jets are 2nd in their division with more points(not a bubble team)
and laine is out performing Matthews atm, injured or not
and sustaining a ~17% for shooting
they called laine's goals last year a fluke and now he's doing even better

sometimes you gotta admit you're wrong. instead you keep saying "just you wait"

Sometimes you just gotta be less insecure. 10 Laines vs Matthews threads in the last 3 days. How many were there when Matthews was dominating? 1, and Leaf fans were gushing over Laine in it.

 

[Critical13]

Fredrick Andersen, Marner and Nylander looked at your post, leaned back and all had a good laugh.

Andersen wasn't great last season and wingers don't have the impact that C's do.

 

[La Masse]

Fredrick Andersen, Marner and Nylander looked at your post, leaned back and all had a good laugh.

They were all contributors but lets be real here. He was the leader in that dressing room and has a great playoffs for the Leafs something Laine has yet to do.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

It’s the problem of small sample sizes - Matthews is a dominant even strength scorer, but his power play production has been neutered this season, in part due to being used on the 2nd unit.

With slight uptick in power play production (ie more in line to his first season), we should expect the two to be neck and neck next year in terms of goal season - especially if both players remain healthy.

First Unit or not Laine is gonna be the best PP scorer in the league with that shot, and given more time 5v5 like Matthews he should score more there as well... Again Laines shot gives him the advantage by a large margin in the goal scoring areas, you can theorize situations all you want but Matthews simply doesn’t have the tools Laine has to score goals.

 

[4thline]

no. I know what I'm talking about. you were not apart of the conversation nor do you know what conversations I'm referring to.
a lot of the talk was about how he couldn't shoot that high. well it's still high and has more goals this season
so the haters are wrong

and you're playing with semantics by bringing up 23 percent

Lol I don't you think you understand the meaning of the word "semantics". Because exposing clear revisionist history is not a semantic point, it's a fundamental error in your assertion that people that called his shooting percentage unsustainable were wrong.

Informed opinions claimed his 23%+ shooting percentage was unsustainable and called for a regression to the ~17-18% range. What transpired?

 

[tacogeoff]

Andersen wasn't great last season and wingers don't have the impact that C's do.

Andersen has been outstanding! he has played 2 less games than he had in Anaheim and has faced over 600+ more shots while playing in Toronto.
Craziness.

 

[Menzinger]

First Unit or not Laine is gonna be the best PP scorer in the league with that shot, and given more time 5v5 like Matthews he should score more there as well... Again Laines shot gives him the advantage by a large margin in the goal scoring areas, you can theorize situations all you want but Matthews simply doesn’t have the tools Laine has to score goals.

Even if one strongly believes there is a large gap in shot quality between laine and Matthews (and that is contestable), factor in 1) matthews gets less icetime than most 1Cs due to Babcock’s systems, 2) has better shot generation and 3) shoots more from high danger areas, I wouldn’t be so confident that Laine has the advantage here.

And you simply can not dismiss the PP factor, it will make a large difference next season.

 

[Peggy]

I see. So basically you're referring to an idiotic pissing match between two fan bases while making your own contribution to said pissing match. Got it.

WPG is still my #2 team to cheer for after the Leafs. Go Jets!

I'm basically saying. this is what could happen when you get ahead yourself acting as cocky as leafs fans did last year
telling jets fans they dont know what they're talking about. when reality is closer to what jets fans were saying( as you can see in the standings and laine's goal count)

for a long time the leafs fans always act like they're the next big thing
id say this is the first time the leafs have looked promising is a long time yet they still aren't there yet

jets fans were right about their team. we've been patient and we finally have the team we were expecting and waiting for
Id say there's still few adjustments needed to be made tho

 

[tacogeoff]

They were all contributors but lets be real here. He was the leader in that dressing room and has a great playoffs for the Leafs something Laine has yet to do.

Ok sure we will go with that, I don't get a pass to check out the Jets team pep talks. Laine just leads by example.

 

[Peggy]

Lol I don't you think you understand the meaning of the word "semantics". Because exposing clear revisionist history is not a semantic point, it's a fundamental error in your assertion that people that called his shooting percentage unsustainable were wrong.

Informed opinions claimed his 23%+ shooting percentage was unsustainable and called for a regression to the ~17-18% range. What transpired?

17 percent or 23 percent is semantics considering laine's shooting percentage was just over 17 percent last year

semantics. are little details irrelevant to the point of the conversation

so you're wrong because you even got his shooting percentage wrong

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm basically saying. this is what could happen when you get ahead yourself acting as cocky as leafs fans did last year
telling jets fans they dont know what they're talking about. when reality is closer to what jets fans were saying( as you can see in the standings and laine's goal count)

for a long time the leafs fans always act like they're the next big thing
id say this is the first time the leafs have looked promising is a long time yet they still aren't there yet

jets fans were right about their team. we've been patient and we finally have the team we were expecting and waiting for
Id say there's still few adjustments needed to be made tho

You should stop with the generalisations. Fan bases are all the same in that sense, there are some intelligent fans and some not so intelligent. And the ones that generalise in this fashion belong to ... well, you can guess which group they belong to.

 

[kelsier]

I've said from the beginning that Laine would be the BPA of the 2016 draft and I certainly don't feel any different today. He has been outpacing Matthews in the points since entering the league (regardless of which one happened to be injured and when), despite of being 7 months younger and playing lower minutes. Right now he has the most goals in the entire NHL since playing his first game. That is beyond every expectation. The kid will be a truly unique superstar and that's enough for me. Some may want or like Matthews more and it's entirely fine. I do believe he will be a great player as well.

 

[CujosMask]

This is awesome.

You guys should keep making polls only to watch Laine lose them. He'll always be 2nd best in this comp. Always.

Its interesting how it grinds Laine's fans that Matthews is the better player, when there's really no reason for it. Its like its just not enough that he's a great player doing great things. He just HAS to be better than the American Maple Leaf.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

These threads suck lol.

So much immaturity from both fanbases + the Finnish mafia.

They're both great players, Matthews has a slight edge.

The end.

 

[Critical13]

Andersen has been outstanding! he has played 2 less games than he had in Anaheim and has faced over 600+ more shots while playing in Toronto.
Craziness.

Last season. Andersen was good, but he didn't carry the team. Last year our veteran forwards carried a lot of weight. This year, Matthews and Andersen have been our best players, with Rielly coming 3rd.

 

[Critical13]

17 percent or 23 percent is semantics considering laine's shooting percentage was just over 17 percent last year

semantics. are little details irrelevant to the point of the conversation

so you're wrong because you even got his shooting percentage wrong

6% is a lot when you take 300 shots.

 

[4thline]

17 percent or 23 percent is semantics considering laine's shooting percentage was just over 17 percent last year

semantics. are little details irrelevant to the point of the conversation

so you're wrong because you even got his shooting percentage wrong

Lol oh the irony. It fell from where it was to the ball park of where we said it would fall to. A fall of 20+% (relative, not absolute) last year, and remains 12-15% (again relative, not absolute) lower than it was then while coming off a ~16 for 32 run in the last month or so.

But yep. Totally didn't fall.

 

[Asiantuntija]

'which one is [a] better player'.

And it's Matthews because he does so much more than just score goals.

And so does Laine. He is very strong player with 196 cm size and makes his teammates better with his goalscoring abilities. We can act like Matthews is much better elite playmaker but that's not true at all. Matthews is elite center scoring first center but Laine will be best goalscorer ever seen on history and goalscoring is most important part of the game.

 

[Cotton]

no. I know what I'm talking about. you were not apart of the conversation nor do you know what conversations I'm referring to.
a lot of the talk was about how he couldn't shoot that high. well it's still high and has more goals this season
so the haters are wrong

and you're playing with semantics by bringing up 23 percent

You don’t know what your talking about, the arguments were ongoing and stretch back to before the draft from the international and prospect boards. I was in all of them (unfortunately) and never saw you post until near the end of last season on the Main boards, and when you did you came with a lot of bias and conspiracy theory that the media was going to keep Laine from winning the Calder. Any Leafs/Jets shit talking came with you, and posters like you, prior to that it was Finnish Laine fans and some Leafs fans slinging mud about the players.

So yeah, you are the shit talker, you just got a little back as a result.

He has more goals because Matthews is injured. Prior to that he had 28 in 60 games, while Matthews had 28 in only 53. Matthews doesn’t get injured and he might still be leading. He isn’t though, but to chest-thump over Laine pulling ahead because of Auston’s injury is all kinds of derpy.

 

[tacogeoff]

Last season. Andersen was good, but he didn't carry the team. Last year our veteran forwards carried a lot of weight. This year, Matthews and Andersen have been our best players, with Rielly coming 3rd.

multiple players "carried" the Leafs last season. it was a team effort to make the playoffs. five players with over 60pts and decent goaltending. That is like saying right now Laine is carrying the Jets to the playoffs this season. meanwhile there are other players whom have over 60pts and better goaltending than the previous year.

 

[LeafsNation75]

So I guess with Laine getting over 30% of this vote shows how people's view's have changed after this year. Sounds like Matthews is winning because he is a Centre and people prioritize this position over a winger than because they feel he is a better player,

Are you really comparing Laine get over 30% of a poll on HF to last years Calder vote?

 

[Peggy]

You should stop with the generalisations. Fan bases are all the same in that sense, there are some intelligent fans and some not so intelligent. And the ones that generalise in this fashion belong to ... well, you can guess which group they belong to.

I've read enough since the jets have been back

u really think the jets fans were acting smug and cocky this whole time when they weren't making the playoffs?

 

[TheMule93]

The better point producer and center

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I've said from the beginning that Laine would be the BPA of the 2016 draft and I certainly don't feel any different today. He has been outpacing Matthews in the points since entering the league (regardless of which one happened to be injured and when), despite of being 7 months younger and playing lower minutes. Right now he has the most goals in the entire NHL since playing his first game. That is beyond every expectation. The kid will be a truly unique superstar and that's enough for me. Some may want or like Matthews more and it's entirely fine. I do believe he will be a great player as well.

Let's just call it even to make both parties happy here right now. Injuries and position really do not factor into who is the best player. But let's play it if it did. So let's look at both years where both players were healthy and hurt.

Laine
142 GP. 77 goals, 128 pts
GPG .542
PPG .901

Matthews
135GP. 68, 119 pts
GPG .504
PPG .881

Right now it is close. Slight edge statistically for Laine.

I believe Laine will be the BP from the 2016 draft given what he is already accomplishing as a teenager. One can only surmise he will be much better as a 20 year old.

Really you cannot go wrong with either player. But the fact I think Laine will score 500 goals before he is 30 years old. Sometime in his 29 year old season if he stays healthy. It would take a player of immense production to be better than him. I don't see this.

So to be fair, because Matthews is hurt. It is close. But going fwd, I expect Laine will get more voters on his side as the better player given what he has already accomplished as a teenager and that he was not nearly as developed as Matthews was when both entered the NHL.