Cat to the table: Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine

[StatisticsAddict99]

If offence is your only concern, do you also consider Morrissey and Trouba to be overrated? How about Roslovic? Or does the offence-only logic only apply to this particular convo, at this particular time.

Laine JUST passed Matthews for career ppg. If one player plays sheltered 2nd line minutes and is the focus of your PP on the wing, and the other is a beast 2 way C who is going to score 1 point less each season, which player do you choose?

First of all I was replying to a comment of someone saying they don’t see an indication of Laine being a better goal scorer...

Secondly Laine is better in quality of shots agaisnt... So don’t act as if Matthews is a Two-Way god in this thread

Thirdly, he did it a couple games ago(surpassed Matthews in PPG).

Fourthly, do you have any proof Laine has been playing sheltered minutes agaisnt lower competition? For instance from my viewings tonight he was up agaisnt Ovechkins line for a majority of his and Ovies night(this is anecdotal but I only noticed this because it was kind of a Laine vs Ovie game). There is no evidence that you can show me that proves this because it’s not true and is a follow up excuse that you want to pepper on to your weak arguments.

I choose the Gernerational Goal Scoring Winger over the Elite Goalscoring #1 Center(his Two-Way game is overrated).

 

[Maplebeasts]

First of all I was replying to a comment of someone saying they don’t see an indication of Laine being a better goal scorer...

Secondly Laine is better in quality of shots agaisnt... So don’t act as if Matthews is a Two-Way god in this thread

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Thirdly, he did it a couple games ago(surpassed Matthews in PPG).

Fourthly, do you have any proof Laine has been playing sheltered minutes agaisnt lower competition? For instance from my viewings tonight he was up agaisnt Ovechkins line for a majority of his and Ovies night(this is anecdotal but I only noticed this because it was kind of a Laine vs Ovie game). There is no evidence that you can show me that proves this because it’s not true and is a follow up excuse that you want to pepper on to your weak arguments.

I choose the Gernerational Goal Scoring Winger over the Elite Goalscoring #1 Center(his Two-Way game is overrated).

Corsica | Skater Stats

Look up some numbers yourself. You'll notice even strength Matthews scores significantly more points/60 minutes, is a better relative possession player, has a higher ixgf and ixgf/60, puts up way more primary points, has a huge advantage in GF% and xGF% and xGF% rel all while playing with slightly worse team mates, and against better competition with much less offensive zone starts. You tell us that Matthews' two way game is over rated when several underlying metrics show it's elite and then proceed to call Laine a "Generational Goal scoring Winger" when he wasn't even pacing for 40 goals until a stretch of 9 games where he's shooting 50%. This is just too much.

 

[Peggy]

Corsica | Skater Stats

Look up some numbers yourself. You'll notice even strength Matthews scores significantly more points/60 minutes, is a better relative possession player, has a higher ixgf and ixgf/60, puts up way more primary points, has a huge advantage in GF% and xGF% and xGF% rel all while playing with slightly worse team mates, and against better competition with much less offensive zone starts. You tell us that Matthews' two way game is over rated when several underlying metrics show it's elite and then proceed to call Laine a "Generational Goal scoring Winger" when he wasn't even pacing for 40 goals until a stretch of 9 games where he's shooting 50%. This is just too much.

only.on hf do you get criticized for converting your shots

you guys sound like s broke record
get over it. talking how unsustainable his shot is. isn't gonna take away his goals

 

[Maplebeasts]

only.on hf do you get criticized for converting your shots

you guys sound like s broke record
get over it. talking how unsustainable his shot is. isn't gonna take away his goals

They don't take away the goals he has now, but you're in for a rude awakening if you think this stretch of 9 games accurately represents how many he will score in the future.

 

[Peggy]

They don't take away the goals he has now, but you're in for a rude awakening if you think this stretch of 9 games accurately represents how many he will score in the future.

we'll see what what happens
I also expect him to improve in other areas of his hockey game, but the fact is he has the most goals in the last 2 seasons

 

[wabagee]

I've noticed too that he doesn't hit the goaltender much. If he does miss it's off the iron or a c-hair wide.

 

[Menzinger]

Again you say there was no suggestion, I gave you more than suggestion... I gave you proof Laine is a better goal scorer and now you back track into irrelevant excuses.

Laine thus far has been a better goal scorer. It has not a damn thing to do with the amount of games they have played or the injuries that Matthews has had(and no Leafs fan took that same excuse for the minimal Jets fans who tried to make it last season so why should it work now).

I’m sorry, but it’s simply absurd to presume we have enough evidence to suggest strongly one way or the other whose the better goal scorer (I mean, Matthews DID score more more goals last season...) now or in the long term.

The two players seem to be neck and neck in terms of their offensive games.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I’m sorry, but it’s simply absurd to presume we have enough evidence to suggest strongly one way or the other whose the better goal scorer (I mean, Matthews DID score more more goals last season...) now or in the long term.

The two players seem to be neck and neck in terms of their offensive games.

After Matthews rookie season I don't remember any Leafs fans who claimed he was going to be a better goal scorer than Laine, even though he ended up with 40 goals compared to the 36 goals Laine scored.

For anyone to suggest that Laine will be the better scorer from now one is still to early to predict and because Laine is still doing all this while Matthews is injured.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

I’m sorry, but it’s simply absurd to presume we have enough evidence to suggest strongly one way or the other whose the better goal scorer (I mean, Matthews DID score more more goals last season...) now or in the long term.

The two players seem to be neck and neck in terms of their offensive games.

Long term is fairer(Laines trajectory puts him ahead but nothing’s indefinite), but there is plenty of evidence suggesting Laine is a better Goal Scorer today, your just to biased to look for the evidence(for fudge sake I replied to you with the evidence, this is absolutely absurd) and not make excuses behind them once you notice them. Laine today is a much better goal scorer.

Long term should be favoured in Laines favour, he’s younger he’s scoring at pace for 48 Goals with less than 17 minutes per game and is nearly a year younger than Matthews. Again nothing is indefinite, Matthews is a very good player but it’s doubtful he can keep up in the Goal scoring department due to the fact that Laine has an all-time great shot and a lot of Elite Offensive tools to play with behind that shot.

I agree they are neck in neck offensively but Laine is clearly head over head the better Goal scorer.

 

[Binister]

What’s with everyone calling laine pate? Is this finish nickname?

In Finland usually if someone is named Patrik he gets nick named Patu or Pate most of the time.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Long term should be favoured in Laines favour, he’s younger he’s scoring at pace for 48 Goals with less than 17 minutes per game and is nearly a year younger than Matthews.

For the record Matthews is only 7 months older than Laine. I remember because last season it's all I kept reading from a lot of Jets fans as to why Laine should have won the Calder.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

After Matthews rookie season I don't remember any Leafs fans who claimed he was going to be a better goal scorer than Laine, even though he ended up with 40 goals compared to the 36 goals Laine scored.

For anyone to suggest that Laine will be the better scorer from now one is still to early to predict and because Laine is still doing all this while Matthews is injured.

Laine had more GPG(he got injured),Laine was younger and has a much better Shot... There are reasons and context behind this stuff you know, I know you want to cheat the argument and hide context but your only lying to yourself.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

For the record Matthews is only 7 months older than Laine. I remember because last season it's all I kept reading from a lot of Jets fans as to why Laine should have won the Calder.

I don’t think anyone would use that as a reason for winning the Calder but it does help the context of who is potentially better, that why I added it(as there is more development to be had for Laine).

 

[LeafsNation75]

Laine had more GPG(he got injured),Laine was younger and has a much better Shot... There are reasons and context behind this stuff you know, I know you want to cheat the argument and hide context but your only lying to yourself.

Do you think it's possible to stop with what Laine's stats might have been if he was not injured in his rookie season? I understand why you mention them, however they are nothing more than fictional and there is still no guarantee Laine would have scored in all the games he missed. As for Laine being a whole 7 months younger who cares, because the Calder voters did not despite Jets fans saying they would. The only thing I will give you is Laine has a great shot, although Matthews shot can be just as lethal when he's close to the net.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don’t think anyone would use that as a reason for winning the Calder but it does help the context of who is potentially better, that why I added it(as there is more development to be had for Laine).

Expect the thing is I read comments form a lot of Jets fans and Laine fans in Finland who said the Calder voters would realize how Laine being 7 months younger would factor into their vote and why he would win it. The vote total was 164 1st place votes for Matthews out of 167 votes and just 3 1st place votes for Laine.

 

[Asiantuntija]

There is very little evidence so far that suggests that Laine is a better goal scorer than Matthews.

Matthews scores tons at even strength, has high shot generation and does so frequently from high danger areas. Imo the fact that Matthews gets so many of his goals so close to the net causes folks to underrate his shot.

Here comes the evidence;

Laine with Little: 38 games 18+11 = 29 PTS 0,76 PPG

Laine without Little: 31 games 23+12 = 35 PTS 1,13 PPG

 

[libertarian]

. No way it's easier finding a pure goal scorer like Laine than finding an elite centre like Matthews.
People may prioritize a centre over a winger but a lot more Centre's at Matthews level than goal scoring wingers at Laine's.

While what you say is true if the Jets had first pick they would of picked Matthews. A high scoring C is more important to a teams long term success then a high scoring winger.

 

[Narow]

Corsica | Skater Stats

Look up some numbers yourself. You'll notice even strength Matthews scores significantly more points/60 minutes, is a better relative possession player, has a higher ixgf and ixgf/60, puts up way more primary points, has a huge advantage in GF% and xGF% and xGF% rel all while playing with slightly worse team mates, and against better competition with much less offensive zone starts. You tell us that Matthews' two way game is over rated when several underlying metrics show it's elite and then proceed to call Laine a "Generational Goal scoring Winger" when he wasn't even pacing for 40 goals until a stretch of 9 games where he's shooting 50%. This is just too much.

Yeah laines 5v5 numbers with little brings it down alot. Matthews is still a better producer at 5v5 from the data we have altho laine is really good at it too. Id like to see his numbers away from little.

Also the ixgf dont seem accurate whatsoever when it comes to laine (its a exspected goals for stat right?)

Matthews numbers gf% cf% etc etc are pretty similar to laines rookie numbers.

I would really like to see laines numbers with stastny as little and laine did not work and they were kept for like 38 games.

Again my opinion is that matthews is better 5v5 but not by mutch.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Yeah laines 5v5 numbers with little brings it down alot. Matthews is still a better producer at 5v5 from the data we have altho laine is really good at it too. Id like to see his numbers away from little.

Also the ixgf dont seem accurate whatsoever when it comes to laine (its a exspected goals for stat right?)

Matthews numbers gf% cf% etc etc are pretty similar to laines rookie numbers.

I would really like to see laines numbers with stastny as little and laine did not work and they were kept for like 38 games.

Again my opinion is that matthews is better 5v5 but not by mutch.

As a Leaf fan I am emotionally invested in my guys so obv I take Matthews but Laine is such a great player that I wouldn't be upset if we had him and you had Matthews.
The more I watch Laine and his interviews the more I like him. His comment about being on the ice for history(Ovi's 600th) and being a minus made me chuckle.

 

[FinPanda]

Matthews is the better player but Laine is the better goal scorer. If you want to build your team from scratch, you obviously pick Matthews, center who can carry a team. Lane has carried Winnipeg for a while, but Matthews is a beast in every zone.

By far the best two picks from the 2016 draft and you can't go wrong with either. Amazing players.

 

[Narow]

As a Leaf fan I am emotionally invested in my guys so obv I take Matthews but Laine is such a great player that I wouldn't be upset if we had him and you had Matthews.
The more I watch Laine and his interviews the more I like him. His comment about being on the ice for history(Ovi's 600th) and being a minus made me chuckle.

Im of the opinion that any hockey fan being exposed enough to either player will grow fond of both of them them being statistically even in almost any metric doesnt hurt either. And yeah laine got a good sense of humor.

 

[Gary Nylund]

As a Leaf fan I am emotionally invested in my guys so obv I take Matthews but Laine is such a great player that I wouldn't be upset if we had him and you had Matthews.
The more I watch Laine and his interviews the more I like him. His comment about being on the ice for history(Ovi's 600th) and being a minus made me chuckle.

Im of the opinion that any hockey fan being exposed enough to either player will grow fond of both of them them being statistically even in almost any metric doesnt hurt either. And yeah laine got a good sense of humor.

Yeah as a Leaf fan I take Matthews but wouldn't be too upset with having Laine instead. I think a not unlikely scenario is that they both have amazing careers making it hard to choose between the two as they are so different as players. Sort of like Crosby/Ovechkin (although Crosby has pulled away in recent years).

As a hockey fan though, I love both these guys. And Laine probably gives the best interviews in the NHL. Dude's is absolutely hilarious, that's gotta be worth about 5 points a year or so.

I also think the TOR and WPG fan-bases should get along well. We're both starved for a winner, we've both been waiting a long time, we're both hockey towns with great fan support and we both have amazing young star players and awesome teams. If we don't win the cup this year I hope WPG does. And among non-Leafs, Laine and McDavid are my two favourite players so always cheering for them to do well.

 

[Coach]

While what you say is true if the Jets had first pick they would of picked Matthews. A high scoring C is more important to a teams long term success then a high scoring winger.

Depends on a team's need. A team like Edmonton would probably choose Laine over Matthews. Most developing teams would choose the Centre. Though top teams would depend on need.

 

[libertarian]

Depends on a team's need. A team like Edmonton would probably choose Laine over Matthews. Most developing teams would choose the Centre. Though top teams would depend on need.

Disagree with this. You can never have enough dominant Centres.
Even the Oilers would of pick Matthews and have a 1/2 centre depth that would rival the Pens.

 

[Coach]

Expect the thing is I read comments form a lot of Jets fans and Laine fans in Finland who said the Calder voters would realize how Laine being 7 months younger would factor into their vote and why he would win it. The vote total was 164 1st place votes for Matthews out of 167 votes and just 3 1st place votes for Laine.

So I guess with Laine getting over 30% of this vote shows how people's view's have changed after this year. Sounds like Matthews is winning because he is a Centre and people prioritize this position over a winger than because they feel he is a better player,