Player Discussion Carey Price - Need a Jesus Price resurrection [MOD WARNING 526]

[ECWHSWI]

A guy like Dubnyk can't crack it as an AHL goalie for us, and then all of a sudden he is putting up almost Vezna season. Bob wins a Vezna, stinks and then wins a 2nd. Price is superhuman, and this year he is the worst goalie in the league. Maybe its because so much of the game is out of the goalies control and there are so many outside variables that effect the goalie.

didnt stop you from being first to put to loss against the NYR last PO on Price despite his GAA below 2...

 

[Genesis76]

didnt stop you from being first to put to loss against the NYR last PO on Price despite his GAA below 2...

Im not attacking you personally but the essence of this post is epic dumb.

A gaa alone means absolutly nothing when you remove its context.

 

[Frankenheimer]

I think the better question is: if salary was not a factor, and you could only pick 1 goalie for next 8 years today, what goalie would you sign? Lindgren? Price? Someone else?

Step up.

For me it would be Price no question. He’s a proven goalie with world class technique.

As mentioned: ignore the salary question for now or where money could be spent otherwise. Who’s your goalie for next 8 years out of those you know?

 

[Seb]

But you can't just ignore the salary...

 

[NotProkofievian]

I think the better question is: if salary was not a factor, and you could only pick 1 goalie for next 8 years today, what goalie would you sign? Lindgren? Price? Someone else?

Step up.

For me it would be Price no question. He’s a proven goalie with world class technique.

As mentioned: ignore the salary question for now or where money could be spent otherwise. Who’s your goalie for next 8 years out of those you know?

Bob.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Im not attacking you personally but the essence of this post is epic dumb.

A gaa alone means absolutly nothing when you remove its context.

it does mean something when when you're replying to someone who pretty much only do that, drop stats without any context whatsoever.

So yeah, you're totally right, IT IS dumb

 

[le_sean]

I think the better question is: if salary was not a factor, and you could only pick 1 goalie for next 8 years today, what goalie would you sign? Lindgren? Price? Someone else?

Step up.

For me it would be Price no question. He’s a proven goalie with world class technique.

As mentioned: ignore the salary question for now or where money could be spent otherwise. Who’s your goalie for next 8 years out of those you know?

The choice isn’t Price vs. Lindgren. It’s Price vs. Lindgren and JVR/RNH/Kane, etc. You can get an additional ~$7m player if you go with Lindgren.

 

[AnctilNDG]

I think the better question is: if salary was not a factor, and you could only pick 1 goalie for next 8 years today, what goalie would you sign? Lindgren? Price? Someone else?

Step up.

For me it would be Price no question. He’s a proven goalie with world class technique.

As mentioned: ignore the salary question for now or where money could be spent otherwise. Who’s your goalie for next 8 years out of those you know?

Id pck two medium pack goalies with better stats in playoffs then reg season with a rookie if poss or young

 

[Milhouse40]

The choice isn’t Price vs. Lindgren. It’s Price vs. Lindgren and JVR/RNH/Kane, etc. You can get an additional ~$7m player if you go with Lindgren.

It's not Lindgren vs Price...come on guys.
Lindgren has 5 games in the NHL for crying out load.

Consistency for a goaltender is everything and that's being able to sustain the NHL grind.
Look at Mete, he's completely tired now and i expected it.
The planes, the hotels, the practices, the suitcases.....for 2 weeks it's one thing, after 2 months it's another.

What's wrong with Price AND Lindgren for a year or two?

Dumbest thing would be even thinking about trading Price right now.....

 

[NotProkofievian]

Im not attacking you personally but the essence of this post is epic dumb.

A gaa alone means absolutly nothing when you remove its context.

This is actually surprisingly untrue. Over a long sample (longer than a playoff series) if you have the goaltender's GAA you can tell a lot of what they did throughout the season. How many times they had a shutout, or let in 3 or more goals can be accurately predicted by GAA alone.

 

[AnctilNDG]

it does mean something when when you're replying to someone who pretty much only do that, drop stats without any context whatsoever.

So yeah, you're totally right, IT IS dumb

Context

Habs outshor rangers in series

Price
.933
1.86

Advanced stats (min 200mins, 16 oalies, all starters the #1)5vs5
GSAA 8/16
High danger save % 15/16 only crawford is worst chi lost in 4
MediumDS% 1st
LowDS% 3rd
S% 5th

Cant expect your team to win when your worst in the league for High danger saves at 5vs5 and have worst stats then your opposing goalie who your team outshot

Lund vs MTL
1.70
.947
So ya sub 2 GAA is good but is it enough?

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

Context

Habs outshor rangers in series

Price
.933
1.86

Advanced stats (min 200mins, 16 oalies, all starters the #1)5vs5
GSAA 8/16
High danger save % 15/16 only crawford is worst chi lost in 4
MediumDS% 1st
LowDS% 3rd
S% 5th

Cant expect your team to win when your worst in the league for High danger saves at 5vs5 and have worst stats then your opposing goalie who your team outshot

Lund vs MTL
1.70
.947
So ya sub 2 GAA is good but is it enough?

Do these stats tell you how many high danger chances Montreal conceded? Do you have context of what these high danger chances were? Were they a tip in from the slot that went directly onto Price's pad or was it a cross crease pass that gave the forward an empty net?

But yes, a .933 save % and 1.86 gas is supposed to be enough no matter the context.

 

[AnctilNDG]

Hes ha

So Price want out ? Shall we rebuild and let him win somewhere else?

his had success in the AHL maybe Laval needs a cup !

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

It's not Lindgren vs Price...come on guys.
Lindgren has 5 games in the NHL for crying out load.

Consistency for a goaltender is everything and that's being able to sustain the NHL grind.
Look at Mete, he's completely tired now and i expected it.
The planes, the hotels, the practices, the suitcases.....for 2 weeks it's one thing, after 2 months it's another.

What's wrong with Price AND Lindgren for a year or two?

Dumbest thing would be even thinking about trading Price right now.....

It is the same thing as two years ago when Condon had a few good starts and people were talking about trading Price, people need to give him a year or even two years of time in the NHL before jumping to conclusions. Heck, even in the AHL this year Lindgren had a great first two games then was terrible after that.

If any goalie should go right now it should be Montoya, Lindgren outplayed him at camp and he can give us 20-25 quality starts a year.

 

[Frankenheimer]

The choice isn’t Price vs. Lindgren. It’s Price vs. Lindgren and JVR/RNH/Kane, etc. You can get an additional ~$7m player if you go with Lindgren.

I know, but I think it's important to answer the question of what goalie you want first, and then see if those other possibilities exist anyways. It will give people valuable insight into how these decisions are made in practice.

So who is your goalie for next 8 years if you had one pick today?

 

[AnctilNDG]

Do these stats tell you how many high danger chances Montreal conceded? Do you have context of what these high danger chances were? Were they a tip in from the slot that went directly onto Price's pad or was it a cross crease pass that gave the forward an empty net?

But yes, a .933 save % and 1.86 gas is supposed to be enough no matter the context.

I dont make the stats I just report em for fun

HDS% is the same for every goalie, tips, breakaways... its more the area of the shot than anything else if I understand correctly

Cant use stats without context it make them useless

Stats say lundqvist was better than price

 

[Frankenheimer]

Id pck two medium pack goalies with better stats in playoffs then reg season with a rookie if poss or young

Who? Name names. Let's see if your picks bear out.

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

I dont make the stats I just report em for fun

HDS% is the same for every goalie, tips, breakaways... its more the area of the shot than anything else if I understand correctly

Cant use stats without context it make them useless

Stats say lundqvist was better than price

I'm not in the group that is into advanced stats because they don't tell the full story. I watched the series as Im sure you did as well.

Can you honestly say Price should have played better? The forwards were not to blame for the teams shortcomings?

 

[le_sean]

I know, but I think it's important to answer the question of what goalie you want first, and then see if those other possibilities exist anyways. It will give people valuable insight into how these decisions are made in practice.

So who is your goalie for next 8 years if you had one pick today?

Honestly? Lindgren. I don’t trust the longevity of workhorse goaltenders, especially ones that have already had major knee issues.

There are not many examples of goalies being good until the age of 38/39. Right now, only Luongo is still effective, but he’s never had a major injury and they manage his games played for years now. And his cap hit is low. How can you justify giving a player you pay ~15% of the cap to and only asking him to play 50 games a year from ages 35-39 so he doesn’t get tired or hurt? We already see a regression with Lundqvist and he’s only 35. That’s halfway through Price’s 8 years.

8 year contracts for goaltenders are a stupid idea unless he is an elite goalie that is around 25 years old. Not a goalie that has been a workhorse since 21/22 and is now 31.

 

[waffledave]

I don't think I've ever seen a fanbase turn so fast on a player the way you guys do with Price pretty much every year.

Last year was the same f***ing thing. Especially from the Bergevin defenders. Then Price comes back and is so good for the rest of the season he is nominated for the Vezina, and you guys still complain.

 

[Frankenheimer]

Honestly? Lindgren. I don’t trust the longevity of workhorse goaltenders, especially ones that have already had major knee issues.

There are not many examples of goalies being good until the age of 38/39. Right now, only Luongo is still effective, but he’s never had a major injury and they manage his games played for years now. And his cap hit is low. How can you justify giving a player you pay ~15% of the cap to and only asking him to play 50 games a year from ages 35-39 so he doesn’t get tired or hurt? We already see a regression with Lundqvist and he’s only 35. That’s halfway through Price’s 8 years.

8 year contracts for goaltenders are a stupid idea unless he is an elite goalie that is around 25 years old. Not a goalie that has been a workhorse since 21/22 and is now 31.

Great. You got Lindgren for next 8 years, I got Price. Let’s see how it works out.

Now, assuming goaltending is going to cost you about 6 million per year (unless you think Lindgren is going to play for less than that if he’s as good as Price), then who are you spending the extra 4mil in cap space on? Give us a specific player available to sign. I don’t think Kane is available.

 

[Frankenheimer]

I don't think I've ever seen a fanbase turn so fast on a player the way you guys do with Price pretty much every year.

Last year was the same ****ing thing. Especially from the Bergevin defenders. Then Price comes back and is so good for the rest of the season he is nominated for the Vezina, and you guys still complain.

A team full of shiny objects with no track record. What could go wrong?

 

[le_sean]

Great. You got Lindgren for next 8 years, I got Price. Let’s see how it works out.

Now, assuming goaltending is going to cost you about 6 million per year (unless you think Lindgren is going to play for less than that if he’s as good as Price), then who are you spending the extra 4mil in cap space on? Give us a specific player available to sign. I don’t think Kane is available.

In what world is Lindgren getting $6m? You could probably sign him to around 4 years $3m per. I can think of plenty of $7.5m players that can help this team.

You need to realize that I like Price. I also concede that he will be the better goaltender for the next 3-4 years. I have no idea how good Lindgren will be. But I wouldn’t want to sign a goalie until he’s 39 and not at that cap hit with a NMC.

 

[BlueBrunswick]

I think the better question is: if salary was not a factor, and you could only pick 1 goalie for next 8 years today, what goalie would you sign? Lindgren? Price? Someone else?

Step up.

For me it would be Price no question. He’s a proven goalie with world class technique.

As mentioned: ignore the salary question for now or where money could be spent otherwise. Who’s your goalie for next 8 years out of those you know?

For the next 8 years, it's certainly not Price or any other Goalie over the age of 30

my top picks for the next 8 years

Gibson - 24 years old - 130 games played.
Vasilevskiy - 23 - 100 games played.
Hellebuyck - 24 - 90 games played.
Murray - 23 - 75 games played... I'd feel more comfortable seeing him get another 25 or so games under his belt.

These are the guys I'd want for the next 8 years.

 

[BlueBrunswick]

In what world is Lindgren getting $6m? You could probably sign him to around 4 years $3m per. I can think of plenty of $7.5m players that can help this team.

You need to realize that I like Price. I also concede that he will be the better goaltender for the next 3-4 years. I have no idea how good Lindgren will be. But I wouldn’t want to sign a goalie until he’s 39 and not at that cap hit with a NMC.

Bishop signed for under 5 million a year