Speculation: Caps Hockey General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2017-18 Regular Season Edition

[AtNightWeFly]

I thought the whole 'Lets Go Tanking' thing was a joke. Caps have only been bad for 1 month.
Plus we all know Edmonton will pick Top 3 someway somehow.

 

[Sam Spade]

It’s dumb to throw in the towel like that. It’s also fantasy that Ted would do that. Getting lucky in the lottery isn’t thinking big picture, it’s rolling the dice that probably won’t fall your way.

The Ovechkin era is over when he’s gone.

Well then then he, Patrick, and McClellan are idiots. And they don't have to go full tank, just mini-retool, which if we are honest they sort of are doing anyway. Just let the season play out with Bowey/Djoos/Stephenson/Vrana and anyone else they want to call up. If they are out of it at the deadline move Carlson and Eller, (Beagle won't be worth much), if not all these future Caps get great experience. Leafs did it in 2016, got Matthews, and wham, playoffs 2017. And the Caps are much deeper on D so they are coming from a much better place.

And I guess from a marketing perspective the Ovechkin era isn't over, but from him being the centerpiece of the Caps, last season was it.

Look at this years draft pool and then judge:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/sportsnets-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-november/

p.s. I know the Caps will NEVER do this, but if I was running the team I would. #bigpicture

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Brett Hull turned into a different player later in his 30s and had a very good end of his career. With Ovie would he be willing to do that at a cap hit that reflects his production moving forward.

 

[brachyrynchos]

Just saw Samsonov suffered a concussion the other night. Bad vibes around this team.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

[QUOTE="Sam Spade, post: 137505683, member: 85097 Leafs did it in 2016, got Matthews, and wham, playoffs 2017. And the Caps are much deeper on D so they are coming from a much better place.

And I guess from a marketing perspective the Ovechkin era isn't over, but from him being the centerpiece of the Caps, last season was it.

Look at this years draft pool and then judge:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/sportsnets-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-november/

p.s. I know the Caps will NEVER do this, but if I was running the team I would. #bigpicture [/QUOTE]


I'm for retooling if the season looks lost, but their is no chance we end up with a Mathews type talent in the draft. We can dream tho

 

[Corby78]

Its really going to come down to the kids. If guys like Vrana/Bowey/Djoos/Stephenson, even Bura (still only 22/23) start making strides, I say you just retool. You can do this now because you have value in the middle of the roster on small entry level contracts. Look at the blues roster, but if they don't look like they are panning out halfway through the season, you need to start selling. Getting stuck in .500 land with a cap crunched roster is the last place you want to be.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Well then then he, Patrick, and McClellan are idiots. And they don't have to go full tank, just mini-retool, which if we are honest they sort of are doing anyway. Just let the season play out with Bowey/Djoos/Stephenson/Vrana and anyone else they want to call up. If they are out of it at the deadline move Carlson and Eller, (Beagle won't be worth much), if not all these future Caps get great experience. Leafs did it in 2016, got Matthews, and wham, playoffs 2017. And the Caps are much deeper on D so they are coming from a much better place.

And I guess from a marketing perspective the Ovechkin era isn't over, but from him being the centerpiece of the Caps, last season was it.

Look at this years draft pool and then judge:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/sportsnets-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-november/

p.s. I know the Caps will NEVER do this, but if I was running the team I would. #bigpicture

The biggest picture is that this is a business and your plan isn’t what a credible business mind would do this year. Your master plan centers around getting lucky and winning the lottery. I can’t buy in today.

You don’t just throw away maybe one of the last few years of the career of the only superstar you’ve ever had. Also, winning the lottery is part one. Having a guy like Matthews there when you pick isn’t a lock. In fact, it’s unlikely you get a guy with his immediate impact and maybe his long term impact at the franchise level.

Now, if they’re in the cellar at the deadline, then you have to assess and make the right moves. That’s not happening IMO.

 

[Sam Spade]

The biggest picture is that this is a business and your plan isn’t what a credible business mind would do this year. Your master plan centers around getting lucky and winning the lottery. I can’t buy in today.

You don’t just throw away maybe one of the last few years of the career of the only superstar you’ve ever had. Also, winning the lottery is part one. Having a guy like Matthews there when you pick isn’t a lock. In fact, it’s unlikely you get a guy with his immediate impact and maybe his long term impact at the franchise level.

Now, if they’re in the cellar at the deadline, then you have to assess and make the right moves. That’s not happening IMO.

I never said win the lottery. I even posted the top prospects so people could see how deep this draft is, like 2003 deep. If ever you can finish bottom ten and still get a very good player this is the season.

And I understand its a business but Caps fans are tired and ambivalent after years of promise with no success. 14-15 attendance, 99.9 capacity, 5th in the NHL. 15-16 98.4 10th in the NHL. 16-17 97.3, 15th in the NHL. Only five home games this season but down to 97% capacity.

That is business to me. Keep the status and quo and Mr. Leonsis will see the numbers continue to drop.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

If they qualify for the playoffs, their gate numbers will be fine.

And picking up the 10th pick isn’t likely to help them for years....

 

[RaindanceMaggie]

Even if we were to tank this season, either Pitt or EDM will end up with Dahlin! It's the natural NHL way.

 

[Melkor]

They should have tanked in 2014 when goaltending was a mess, defence was a mess, coaching was a mess and even offence (5 on 5 esp.) was a mess. They didnt, although could have ended up with the talent of Nylander/Ehlers caliber and then everything could go differently in all the lost playoffs. Now they should tank also but not with the goal of adding that last missing piece to go for the cup. They just need a new cornerstone player.

 

[Raikkonen]

Hard to see them getting Matthews level guy instead of just top prospect. An ocean of difference there.

 

[g00n]

"Maybe this is the year" is what keeps Caps fans coming back except for rebuild years. And in the most recent rebuild (how many have there really been??) the draw was seeing Ovechkin play. Home attendance was not great but people would pack visiting stadiums for a chance to watch #8 land big hits and score big goals.

Those days are gone. There is no marketing draw as powerful as Ovechkin on the horizon. If missing the playoffs was enough to sink Oates and McPhee then there's little chance of a rebuild in the Ovechkin era. We're right back to "just get in the tournament" mode, and the recent FA signings probably represent the core for quite a while.

So yeah, draft better in the middle rounds and make some trades.

 

[Langway]

This season should mostly be about developing Djoos, Bowey and the rest of their D prospects in Hershey. Maybe Stephenson can establish himself as an NHLer and help them avoid overpaying Beagle. And then, yeah, eventually figure out what they're going to do with Trotz but I think he finishes the season at least.

Best case for next year's draft IMO is a gem forward slipping to them somewhere in the 15-20 range and then another around 35 or so with Florida's second rounder. If they can do well in both spots then there's the potential for two quality supporting cast contributors in the final year or two of Ovechkin's current contract. (I'd only go D with their first pick if it's a blueliner that clearly outclasses all of their prospects, which certainly could happen if it's someone like Dobson, Smith or Woo.)

2018 looks very good from 1-10 but beyond that it's still too early. The first round seems solid but there's a way to go to know just how solid and deep. In any event, I really doubt they sell unless their placement makes it hopeless by the deadline and they're unlikely to fall completely off pace without more core injuries.

 

[txpd]

I understand its a business but Caps fans are tired and ambivalent after years of promise with no success. 14-15 attendance, 99.9 capacity, 5th in the NHL. 15-16 98.4 10th in the NHL. 16-17 97.3, 15th in the NHL. Only five home games this season but down to 97% capacity.

Sure sign of doom at the box office. they have dropped to 97% capacity. Might be worth a check to see what their October Nov numbers look like historically. Right? This is market has always been a two season market. One with the Redskins one after they are done. That said. Trade Ovechkin, Backstrom, Holtby and Carlson and you think their wont be a 3 to 5 year collapse in % of capacity. By that I mean a real collapse.

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[Sam Spade]

Sure sign of doom at the box office. they have dropped to 97% capacity. Might be worth a check to see what their October Nov numbers look like historically. Right? This is market has always been a two season market. One with the Redskins one after they are done. That said. Trade Ovechkin, Backstrom, Holtby and Carlson and you think their wont be a 3 to 5 year collapse in % of capacity. By that I mean a real collapse.

Maybe you are right but I can tell you every year I by a mini-package plus attend an additional game or two. This season I never even considered it, I MIGHT go to one game. Hershey it will be for me.

And I never said trade Backstrom or Ovie, unless THEY asks for it. I want them both to retire Capitals. Carlson, no way the Caps should pay him what he is going to ask, not with the D prospects the Caps have coming. Plus him leaving solves a lot of cap problems.

I would be fine if they re-signed Eller, he is a very good two-way player but other than that all of UfA's can go (Beagle, Carlson, Chorney, etc.).

p.s. My plans may suck but at least I am thinking beyond just treading water and losing in the 1st round this season.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

We can't catch a break. The Bears' depth is torn between the guys called up to the NHL and the injured guys.

 

[MrGone]

Brett Hull turned into a different player later in his 30s and had a very good end of his career. With Ovie would he be willing to do that at a cap hit that reflects his production moving forward.

Maybe if OV had a real coach when he was younger. Instead of a coach that let the team win by having more talent and great individual effort. He would be setup to be a better player as he gets older.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Maybe you are right but I can tell you every year I by a mini-package plus attend an additional game or two. This season I never even considered it, I MIGHT go to one game. Hershey it will be for me.

And I never said trade Backstrom or Ovie, unless THEY asks for it. I want them both to retire Capitals. Carlson, no way the Caps should pay him what he is going to ask, not with the D prospects the Caps have coming. Plus him leaving solves a lot of cap problems.

I would be fine if they re-signed Eller, he is a very good two-way player but other than that all of UfA's can go (Beagle, Carlson, Chorney, etc.).

p.s. My plans may suck but at least I am thinking beyond just treading water and losing in the 1st round this season.

You don't sacrifice one of Ovechkin's seasons. You just don't. Plus even if the Caps traded all of their FA's, they aren't finishing bottom 10. They just aren't.

So you add a little but where you can, like a vet D man, and let it ride. Pretty simple.

 

[Sam Spade]

You don't sacrifice one of Ovechkin's seasons. You just don't. Plus even if the Caps traded all of their FA's, they aren't finishing bottom 10. They just aren't.

So you add a little but where you can, like a vet D man, and let it ride. Pretty simple.

Well if that is how it is going to be then no one better be disappointed in the inevitable, predictable outcome.

And I would easily sacrifice one of Ovechkin's seasons to get a top ten pick in THIS years draft.

 

[txpd]

Well if that is how it is going to be then no one better be disappointed in the inevitable, predictable outcome.

And I would easily sacrifice one of Ovechkin's seasons to get a top ten pick in THIS years draft.

One season? The only way a competitive team gets a top 10 pick is because its derailed by injuries that return the next season at full strength. That happened with TB but otherwise it doesn't. If you tear the team down for a top 10 pick, you could easily be spending 3 or 4 of Ovechkins years.

 

[txpd]

Maybe you are right but I can tell you every year I by a mini-package plus attend an additional game or two. This season I never even considered it, I MIGHT go to one game. Hershey it will be for me.

And I never said trade Backstrom or Ovie, unless THEY asks for it. I want them both to retire Capitals. Carlson, no way the Caps should pay him what he is going to ask, not with the D prospects the Caps have coming. Plus him leaving solves a lot of cap problems.

I would be fine if they re-signed Eller, he is a very good two-way player but other than that all of UfA's can go (Beagle, Carlson, Chorney, etc.).

p.s. My plans may suck but at least I am thinking beyond just treading water and losing in the 1st round this season.

you think beyond treading water? what does that mean? If you don't want to go to a game, don't. I didn't buy the centre ice package for the first time in years and from where I am, I cant see and don't see the games anymore. In my case that is because even with the best team in the league 3 times in the OV era, they still fail in the playoffs. I am really only interested in seeing a 3rd round playoff game.

I also think that you are completely underestimating the damage done to both Ov and Backstrom playing on an awful team. What kind of Ov do you think we see on a team with no chance that is selling off its players? You are overestimating how fast a team can be rebuilt from a tank job into a competitive team. McPhee had Ov, Backstrom, and Alzner as top 5 picks and that team was out of the playoffs for only those 3 bad seasons(not counting the lockout). If they miss the playoffs 2 seasons in a row and don't look cup ready, do you Backstrom reups?

 

[HTFN]

One season? The only way a competitive team gets a top 10 pick is because its derailed by injuries that return the next season at full strength. That happened with TB but otherwise it doesn't. If you tear the team down for a top 10 pick, you could easily be spending 3 or 4 of Ovechkins years.

You could probably move Carlson and one other "prominent" piece and achieve a quality re-tool without destroying the team.

Nashville has basically done most of what people here are suggesting, I don't see why it's so implausible. Strangely enough, there's sort of a familiar template here. I don't want Trotz developing Vrana any more than they wanted him developing Forsberg, honestly.

 

[HTFN]

you think beyond treading water? what does that mean? If you don't want to go to a game, don't. I didn't buy the centre ice package for the first time in years and from where I am, I cant see and don't see the games anymore. In my case that is because even with the best team in the league 3 times in the OV era, they still fail in the playoffs. I am really only interested in seeing a 3rd round playoff game.

I also think that you are completely underestimating the damage done to both Ov and Backstrom playing on an awful team. What kind of Ov do you think we see on a team with no chance that is selling off its players? You are overestimating how fast a team can be rebuilt from a tank job into a competitive team. McPhee had Ov, Backstrom, and Alzner as top 5 picks and that team was out of the playoffs for only those 3 bad seasons(not counting the lockout). If they miss the playoffs 2 seasons in a row and don't look cup ready, do you Backstrom reups?

If they miss the playoffs two seasons in a row and Backstrom (and the rest of us) don't see signs of turning the corner, his re-upping is less important than the king's ransom he'd get as a playoff rental. You could change the complexion of a team/draft picture overnight with the right deal there. Literally my favorite player in the league, but that's still probably a no brainer.