Speculation: Caps Hockey General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2017-18 Regular Season Edition

[Sam Spade]

I think I am not stressing my point enough about how deep THIS years draft is.

To be honest I would be surprised if any team gives up their 1st this season, however if someone offered a 1st for JC74 and the Caps didn't take it they are just idiots.

Again I don't think the Caps need to tank for multiple seasons, I am only saying if they were to be bad THIS season, like bottom ten in the league, I would not be terribly upset.

You wait until the season hits game 50, some teams are going to go full Penguin/Oilers.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Season of doom...

 

[Sam Spade]

Season of doom...

I raise you one "season of doom" for the future looks bright:

 

[Langway]

I think I am not stressing my point enough about how deep THIS years draft is.

To be honest I would be surprised if any team gives up their 1st this season, however if someone offered a 1st for JC74 and the Caps didn't take it they are just idiots.

Well, Ottawa just did. Again, the rest of the season needs to play out before we have a better idea of what a lot of these draft eligibles are. The top ten looks very solid but I wouldn't quite say it's an amazing first round class yet overall. Solid and maybe very good but that Sportsnet piece isn't terribly persuasive in itself.

In any event ownership will have the final say and selling them on a Veleno let alone a Farabee who they've never heard of as a reason to sell isn't going to be persuasive. MacLellan's not going to sell unless selling essentially sells itself to ownership and that will require very poor standings placement.

 

[Sam Spade]

Well, Ottawa just did. Again, the rest of the season needs to play out before we have a better idea of what a lot of these draft eligibles are. The top ten looks very solid but I wouldn't quite say it's an amazing first round class yet overall.

Actually they only sort of did:



And more to my point, they didn't just protect their lottery slot, as most teams do, they protected a potential top ten pick.

And FYI, I don't think the Bolts or Pens will care about moving that pick, but the Yotes, Sabres, Avs, any team that might finish bottom ten certainly would.

 

[Langway]

The garden variety trade deadline buyer typically picks in the 20-30 range. A team like Tampa shouldn't balk at a first rounder and one of their many decent prospects for Carlson should the Caps be terrible and easily decide to sell. But it's unlikely the later happens.

If they're in an uncertain position it's way more likely they try to add something reasonable than sell. Ownership will say it's to give Ovechkin a shot and likely push off any hard decisions until the situation become obviously dire and unavoidable.

 

[Raikkonen]

Well... Draft picks. What's the chance that #1 pick becomes a player of Carlson level? How many years to wait until that happen?

 

[Raikkonen]

What's the name of that guy in Columbus? I think he was top def taken like 2nd. Something like Brian Hurray. Is he already better than Carlson? Should we wait some more?

 

[Ridley Simon]

Well if that is how it is going to be then no one better be disappointed in the inevitable, predictable outcome.

And I would easily sacrifice one of Ovechkin's seasons to get a top ten pick in THIS years draft.

You aren't hearing me. They aren't getting a top 10 pick no matter what they do, unless the trade the core. For futures.

So the aren't getting a top 10 pick.

Edit -- unless as Tex said, they get decimated. Root for that, I guess?

 

[Ridley Simon]

You could probably move Carlson and one other "prominent" piece and achieve a quality re-tool without destroying the team.

Nashville has basically done most of what people here are suggesting, I don't see why it's so implausible. Strangely enough, there's sort of a familiar template here. I don't want Trotz developing Vrana any more than they wanted him developing Forsberg, honestly.

Nashville traded Weber and Jones for Subban and Johansen. They were able to move Jones (Subban is better than Weber.....Montreal boofed that trade hard) because of Josi et al.

They added Forsberg because George is a fool. They have drafted well.

Weber = Ovechkin. Maybe. Or Backstrom.

Jones = ??? Not Burakovsky. Not Vrana. Not Bowey. So it's either Kuznetsov or Orlov.

So, what would help us be like Nashville? Who are you proposing we trade along with Carlson? I also don't see Carslon netting a lot as a pending FA. Think Shattenkirk.

 

[MrGone]

Well... Draft picks. What's the chance that #1 pick becomes a player of Carlson level? How many years to wait until that happen?

So your vote is for mediocrity? Never good enough to win it all but never bad enough to get better. That is what Carlson will bring.

 

[Sam Spade]

Well... Draft picks. What's the chance that #1 pick becomes a player of Carlson level? How many years to wait until that happen?

If it is in THIS years draft and is top ten, pretty soon.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

What's the name of that guy in Columbus? I think he was top def taken like 2nd. Something like Brian Hurray. Is he already better than Carlson? Should we wait some more?

Ryan Murray. He sucks, he is nowhere near as good as Carlson. He's a bust. He was taken right after Yakupov in the 2012 draft.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Ryan Murray. He sucks, he is nowhere near as good as Carlson. He's a bust. He was taken right after Yakupov in the 2012 draft.

Worst 1-2 combo of all-time?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Ryan Murray. He sucks, he is nowhere near as good as Carlson. He's a bust. He was taken right after Yakupov in the 2012 draft.

I kinda liked Brian Hurray!

 

[Raikkonen]

So your vote is for mediocrity? Never good enough to win it all but never bad enough to get better. That is what Carlson will bring.

I've already stated trading Carlson is half measures. I think this gonna end with rebuild. The sooner the better. But Ted isn't ready for that. So Caps are f***ed.

 

[hockeykicker]

doesnt sound like niskanen (who could come off ltir tomorrow) is anywhere close to returning

 

[um]

I don't buy that the Caps are a garbage team that needs to tank, we've got a 7-6-1 record in which we've been missing our #1D and we've had substantial changes in our roster with lots of young guys coming on board, I think we'll make the playoffs with some comfort.

the problem with this team is depth and so far Djoos and Bowey look like they may become good third pairing Defensemen and Vrana, Stephenson, and Smith Pelly are proving they can contribute in their respective roles. I don't understand the panic around here, things are going better than expected for me.

 

[hockeykicker]

tom wilson broke marchand

 

[Sam Spade]

I've already stated trading Carlson is half measures. I think this gonna end with rebuild. The sooner the better. But Ted isn't ready for that. So Caps are ****ed.

Lordy. It doesn't have to be a rebuild. The pieces are there to retool and move onward.

Part of that is absolutely moving a player like Carlson, who the Caps have ZERO chance of re-signing. I agree Carlson by himself might only fetch what Shattenkirk got, but Carlson with someone else might work for a team who thinks they have a shot (like the Caps last year). If the Wings are out of it by the deadline do you think they aren't moving Mike Green?

 

[Sam Spade]

I don't buy that the Caps are a garbage team that needs to tank, we've got a 7-6-1 record in which we've been missing our #1D and we've had substantial changes in our roster with lots of young guys coming on board, I think we'll make the playoffs with some comfort.

the problem with this team and so far Djoos and Bowey look like they can become good third pairing Defensemen and Vrana, Stephenson, and Smith Pelly are proving they can contribute in their respective roles.

And then what?

If you don't think they can win the Cup then who cares if they make the playoffs. In THIS years draft I would rather have, or try to obtain a top ten pick.

 

[txpd]

I think I am not stressing my point enough about how deep THIS years draft is.

To be honest I would be surprised if any team gives up their 1st this season, however if someone offered a 1st for JC74 and the Caps didn't take it they are just idiots.

Again I don't think the Caps need to tank for multiple seasons, I am only saying if they were to be bad THIS season, like bottom ten in the league, I would not be terribly upset.

You wait until the season hits game 50, some teams are going to go full Penguin/Oilers.

What you are saying then, is this is a very unlikely scenario. Yes. if the Caps are out of the playoff picture by the deadline, sell the UFA's. That's standard. I assume you are against a market or lower extension of Carlson. You realize that Carlson level defensemen are hard to get. Orlov likely will not reach that level and based on current development neither will Bowey or Djoos. Solid 1D are rare. The Flyers should have been kicking themselves for years after effectively trading him away for what they got for him.

Also you don't get to say that the Caps don't need to tank for multiple seasons. Once you tear the team down, rebuilding it is far from a guarantee. Look at how many top 5 picks the Pens got before Crosby put them over the top. The Blackhawks too. The Oil are the worst example and then there are the Islanders. Where would the Caps be now if they had picked Barker at 3 rather than get Ov at 1 in that draft?
If they miss the playoffs this year and purge veteran pieces it will take 3 to 5 years to make the playoffs again and years after that to become a threat.

Don't so easily toss this particular base team away. You may not like what you get after

 

[BiPolar Caps]

tom wilson broke marchand

Probably pulled something while high sticking Orpik in front of the net during the B's PP.

 

[um]

And then what?

If you don't think they can win the Cup then who cares if they make the playoffs. In THIS years draft I would rather have, or try to obtain a top ten pick.

Whatever we get in the top 10 probably won't be an elite player and it won't drastically improve the Core we have now (Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Oshie, Niskanen, Carlson, Orlov, Holtby). People who think that is not good really need to look around the NHL, that's still elite. And we'll still have the 16-24th pick and the 32-40th pick.

I am however for trading Carlson if he doesn't want to extend to a reasonable deal, but I'd prefer to keep him, I know people are disappointed he never developed into the #1D elite guy we all wanted but he's still a good 1B and he's not easily replaceable.

 

[Sam Spade]

What you are saying then, is this is a very unlikely scenario. Yes. if the Caps are out of the playoff picture by the deadline, sell the UFA's. That's standard. I assume you are against a market or lower extension of Carlson. You realize that Carlson level defensemen are hard to get. Orlov likely will not reach that level and based on current development neither will Bowey or Djoos. Solid 1D are rare. The Flyers should have been kicking themselves for years after effectively trading him away for what they got for him.

Also you don't get to say that the Caps don't need to tank for multiple seasons. Once you tear the team down, rebuilding it is far from a guarantee. Look at how many top 5 picks the Pens got before Crosby put them over the top. The Blackhawks too. The Oil are the worst example and then there are the Islanders. Where would the Caps be now if they had picked Barker at 3 rather than get Ov at 1 in that draft?
If they miss the playoffs this year and purge veteran pieces it will take 3 to 5 years to make the playoffs again and years after that to become a threat.

Don't so easily toss this particular base team away. You may not like what you get after

First I disagree Carlson is a true number one dman, so I guess we come at what losing him means.

Second I don't think it would matter if they didn't make the playoffs for one season. As a matter of fact the proof is in 2014. One season after missing they were the favorites to win the Cup two seasons in a row.