Speculation: Caps Hockey General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2017-18 Regular Season Edition

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Agreed with the penalty analysis.

Kuznetsov's penalties (much like Semin's) are born from an area of him having too much confidence in his ability, misreading how the game is being officiated, or trying to do too much. (I mean this is just really a description of all of the worst traits Kuz has.) Also there is a slight level of lazyness to some of those penalties because his perception of his skills are not always in line with reality. (Much like Sasha). At no point is he taking penalties because he's an inferior player than his opponent, Orpik can't say that.

Orpik's are born out of two areas, being beaten and trying to compensate as mentioned above, and knowing that his spot on this team is entirely predicated on this idea that he's a physical presence and going overboard on that. When Orpik takes physical penalties it's like he wasn't even watching the game and is like "This is what I'm paid to do, right?"


It's funny Wilson gets mentioned, there's a guy who injects his physicality into a game organically and actually makes clean/hard hits. Orpik just haphazardly tacks his physical aspects onto an already shoddy defensive ability. It's like he had made up his mind as soon as he leaves the bench on what he's going to do.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

What?

Djoos has been excellent this year, he has absolutely earned a roster slot. I don't understand your logic at all, it's like you're operating under the assumption "Well if Orpik isn't scratched it must mean no one else is better." Have you been watching for the last two years? That's literally what this board has been losing their minds about, we routinely play Orpik while superior players are scratched.

Last season it took us a few playoff L's before Schmidt actually got to crack the lineup, I wonder how long it will take Barry this year before he relents and lets Djoos play. My bet is we see Djoos in an elimination game and then we lose and Trotz is like "See, it wouldn't have mattered."

I agree he’s earned a roster spot, just (apparently) not Orpik’s nightly lineup spot.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Orpik bias alert..it’s OK for Kuzy because he does pretty dangles.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Regardless of your opinions of Orpik. It's absolutely insane that Trotz hasn't even given us one lineup without him in it, whether it's maintenance, or toying with lines, or an actual scratching, he hasn't given us one single game.

At this point I'm more likely to believe we see a Cup win under Barry than him try a game without Orpik.

I’m pretty sure opinions of Orpik (he sucks this year) are pretty close across the board. Me personally, I’m just accepting of him in the lineup at this point. It’s it what it is and doesn’t appear to be changing, no matter how many times someone posts Orpik sucks or drones on and on and on about him.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Orpik bias alert..it’s OK for Kuzy because he does pretty dangles.

I mean it's all about net positive.

Kuznetsov screws up... he's still Kuznetsov at the end of the day.

Orpik screws up... he's still Orpik and he's an Orpik that's taking penalties. Gross.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

I’m pretty sure opinions of Orpik (he sucks this year) are pretty close across the board. Me personally, I’m just accepting of him in the lineup at this point. It’s it what it is and doesn’t appear to be changing, no matter how many times someone posts Orpik sucks or drones on and on and on about him.

Well what is a message board if not an echo chamber or an abyss to scream mindlessly into?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Oh I get it. Doesn’t make the incessant complaining any more bearable sadly.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Well what is a message board if not an echo chamber or an abyss to scream mindlessly into?

Find something constructive to do?

 

[txpd]

Right. So much for not being a stick/obstruction guy. Defensemen who get those penalties are often compensating for being behind the play, usually after getting burned. A guy like Kuz takes penalties as Semin did, typically on the fore/back check. Just because Kuzy takes some head scratchers doesn't mean Orpik is a physical stalwart who's simply accumulating roughing penalties as he regulates the crease for the greater good. Everyone can see him struggle. Which is too bad.

I agree with the post about needing to rest him more. He's better in limited use, imo.

I see 13 minor penalties for Roughing, Interference(which is often hitting before the puck gets there), High sticking and Crosschecking. I count 10 for the hooking holding tripping variety. Looking at Carlson or Niskanen or Orlov. How many of the typical non violent offenses do they have in comparison?

I would say this proves my point. Lets not forget the two fights.

 

[txpd]

The biggest factor in Trotz not sitting Orpik is his PKing I think. I'd like Trotz to at least try out Kempny, Jerabek, and Djoos there. Surely an injury will happen in the playoffs and one of them will have to PK a lot anyways.

I am fairly sure that at least one of those three have already gotten pk time and will see more. Whenever one of 74, 2, 44 or 9 takes a penalty, one of those 3 takes the shifts.

 

[txpd]

It's funny Wilson gets mentioned, there's a guy who injects his physicality into a game organically and actually makes clean/hard hits. Orpik just haphazardly tacks his physical aspects onto an already shoddy defensive ability. It's like he had made up his mind as soon as he leaves the bench on what he's going to do.

You don't like Orpik. I get it. Tom Wilson takes hitting penalties because he hits a lot and missing one the wrong way will happen and because he has a rep. He takes penalties for sticking up for his teammates. Orpik gets all of those type of penalties as well. He hits a lot, he has a rep and he responds to liberties against teammates.

IF its your opinion that he is just junk, I am not going to try and change your mind

 

[twabby]

You don't like Orpik. I get it. Tom Wilson takes hitting penalties because he hits a lot and missing one the wrong way will happen and because he has a rep. He takes penalties for sticking up for his teammates. Orpik gets all of those type of penalties as well. He hits a lot, he has a rep and he responds to liberties against teammates.

IF its your opinion that he is just junk, I am not going to try and change your mind

Wilson also draws penalties at the second highest rate in the entire NHL. Orpik...does not.

People change their opinions on players when it's warranted. For instance I was as vocal of a Tom Wilson critic as anybody before this season, but his play this season has made it impossible for me to be a critic of him any more.

The same improvement hasn't happened with Orpik (nor should it be realistically expected of a 37 year old). He's a net liability on the ice and it's not likely to change. If it does I'll be the first to be on the Orpik train.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Find something constructive to do?

Then I wouldn't watch the Capitals, sooooooooo...

 

[Bieronymus Trotz]

I see 13 minor penalties for Roughing, Interference(which is often hitting before the puck gets there), High sticking and Crosschecking. I count 10 for the hooking holding tripping variety. Looking at Carlson or Niskanen or Orlov. How many of the typical non violent offenses do they have in comparison?

I would say this proves my point. Lets not forget the two fights.

The fights were already excluded from the conversation, which has only focused on minor penalties. At minimum, the numbers muddy the waters considerably in terms of how you characterized the two players' penalties. You're very bluntly back-filling the details of their penalties based on how you see the two as players, but the numbers show Orpik has certainly taken more than his share of the sorts of penalties you said were characteristic of Kuznetsov.

 

[McVechkin]

Anyone else think Oshie is gonna break out soon? He looks like he is almost back to normal. Skating better. Making better decisions with the puck, getting better looks.

 

[twabby]

Anyone else think Oshie is gonna break out soon? He looks like he is almost back to normal. Skating better. Making better decisions with the puck, getting better looks.

I think he's playing better but he's never going to return to last season's completely unsustainable scoring rate. If he can play like a 20-goal scorer with solid defense that would be a win for Washington.

 

[um]

Anyone else think Oshie is gonna break out soon? He looks like he is almost back to normal. Skating better. Making better decisions with the puck, getting better looks.

I agree, and Oshie has been a playoff beast these past 2 years, so that's how I'll judge his season.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Next Oshie check-in, playoffs....been saying it for weeks.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Anyone else think Oshie is gonna break out soon? He looks like he is almost back to normal. Skating better. Making better decisions with the puck, getting better looks.

Yes, I do as well. Just in time for the 2nd season

 

[um]

I am fairly sure that at least one of those three have already gotten pk time and will see more. Whenever one of 74, 2, 44 or 9 takes a penalty, one of those 3 takes the shifts.

Kempny has gotten 0:13 per game, Jerabek is getting 0:00, Djoos is getting 0:04. Meanwhile Orpik is getting 2:59 per game.

The only way any of those three will get significant PK time is if Orpik sits. If they end up sucking at it than bring Orpik back in the mix, it will also be easier to choose which one of them to scratch since they've all be playing. But if the PK doesn't suffer when Orpik is sitting, then we will be a much better even strength team.

 

[txpd]

Kempny has gotten 0:13 per game, Jerabek is getting 0:00, Djoos is getting 0:04. Meanwhile Orpik is getting 2:59 per game.

The only way any of those three will get significant PK time is if Orpik sits. If they end up sucking at it than bring Orpik back in the mix, it will also be easier to choose which one of them to scratch since they've all be playing. But if the PK doesn't suffer when Orpik is sitting, then we will be a much better even strength team.

The suggestion was to give Kempney a game on the pk and scratch Orpik. Significant PK time, IMO, can only be done with a lenthy change. Meanwhile, what I said stands as fact. If one of the four pk defensemen take a penalty, one of the other 2 takes the pk shifts. Using the average isn't effective when those players are backups.

 

[txpd]

I think he's playing better but he's never going to return to last season's completely unsustainable scoring rate. If he can play like a 20-goal scorer with solid defense that would be a win for Washington.

Last season, teams made a concerted effort to take Ovechkin away on the power play. Either by shadowing him with a dedicated player or by shading him with one player standing in his basic shooting lane. This season many of those teams have abandoned that plan after the Caps had too much success in the Oshie hole. That play is not there like it used to be and the loss of Johansson in his role in getting Oshie the puck hasn't helped.

I would venture a guess that come playoffs, Ov will again get special treatment and that slot shot will again be a thing

 

[txpd]

The fights were already excluded from the conversation, which has only focused on minor penalties. At minimum, the numbers muddy the waters considerably in terms of how you characterized the two players' penalties. You're very bluntly back-filling the details of their penalties based on how you see the two as players, but the numbers show Orpik has certainly taken more than his share of the sorts of penalties you said were characteristic of Kuznetsov.

Explain to me what your definition of more than his share? I count 10 minor penalties for hooking and grabbing and stuff. I agree that he does this when he gets beat. So do the rest of the defensemen. What is a fair share of non violent minors and what is more? I sure as hell was not saying that he didn't take ANY of those penalties. Its not his primary source of penalties is what I said

 

[um]

The suggestion was to give Kempney a game on the pk and scratch Orpik. Significant PK time, IMO, can only be done with a lenthy change. Meanwhile, what I said stands as fact. If one of the four pk defensemen take a penalty, one of the other 2 takes the pk shifts. Using the average isn't effective when those players are backups.

Well like I said, I want them to get significant time, not 13 seconds a game. Scratch Orpik and give Kempny 2 minutes a game. That's exactly what I'm saying, a lengthy change.

I don't understand your point, you're basically agreeing with me saying they get very little time, but instead you just describe how they get that little amount of time? Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

At this point I support Twabby’s idea, dress 7 D and play Orpik as a specialist.