Speculation: Caps Hockey General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2017-18 Regular Season Edition

[txpd]

Because I think it's exaggerated? It's kind of like when Laviolette and the Flyers called Giroux the best player in the world.



Carlson wore the A before. There is this culture of respect for the veterans in hockey. If you look around the league, most of the guys with the A on their jerseys are older guys.

You make this culture sound like so much superstition. There are valid reasons why experienced players make better leaders and why they more often carry those leadership positions. I suppose there are those that invalidate the idea that experience makes earns you wisdom and wisdom earns respect. I guess you either believe in it or you don't.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

You make this culture sound like so much superstition. There are valid reasons why experienced players make better leaders and why they more often carry those leadership positions. I suppose there are those that invalidate the idea that experience makes earns you wisdom and wisdom earns respect. I guess you either believe in it or you don't.

I never said it was a superstition. I do believe experienced players make better leaders to a certain degree, but I'm arguing that Orpik's leadership doesn't make up for his on-ice play. His lack of discipline goes directly against his leadership.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Lack of discipline? Get serious. If you’re saying one split second bad play few years ago in the heat of action against his former team negates everything, well sorry, that’s absurd. Orpik has had 2 pretty decent regular seasons out of his 4 so far. The 3rd he sustained major injury and played like we’re seeing a lot of players play after a big injury. The 4th, this year, he’s sucked there’s no denying that.

This whole conversation is pointless. Orpik is here and is playing. It sucks and people need to learn to deal with it until he’s not.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

It really says something about Trotz that he looks at Orpik as being unscratchable in the same way as Orlov, Niskanen, and Carlson.

 

[Langway]

Lack of discipline? Get serious. If you’re saying one split second bad play few years ago in the heat of action against his former team negates everything, well sorry, that’s absurd.

This. The two Cups they won thanks to his superhuman leadership in Years 1 & 3 more than make up for it.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

This. The two Cups they won thanks to his superhuman leadership in Years 1 & 3 more than make up for it.

Are you talking about the Captain? Leadership can’t score goals. That’s why it’s called an intangible.

Wow your sarcasm is wretched...try harder.

 

[txpd]

I never said it was a superstition. I do believe experienced players make better leaders to a certain degree, but I'm arguing that Orpik's leadership doesn't make up for his on-ice play. His lack of discipline goes directly against his leadership.

What lack of discipline are you talking about? I have consistently said that Orpik's suspension and his double minor after Alzner was injured were very damaging. But those events are exceptions to the rule. A Capsism almost. Like Joel Ward's kiss of death double minor v the Rangers. Out of character for that player.

otherwise I am not sure what lack of discipline you are talking about

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It really says something about Trotz that he looks at Orpik as being unscratchable in the same way as Orlov, Niskanen, and Carlson.

It says more about their belief in what’s behind him sadly.

 

[RandyHolt]

Does anyone deny long time NHL coaches strongly trend towards using vets on D?

I think its called experience.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

It says more about their belief in what’s behind him sadly.

I really don't think it does. I legit believe that they see value in Orpik and not that he's the best of a bad situation. Even last year with a deeper defensive core we saw Schmidt on the pine and Orpik start.

Orpik has never been a healthy scratch in DC. This is something that of the current roster only Niskanen and Carlson (99% sure) share with him. It's very clear that this team is willing to experiment with matchups, they're just unwilling to scratch "their guys" to do it. If they were not confident in the roster behind Orpik why are we seeing a constant rotation of the Czechs and Djoos? They're willing to cycle all 3 of those guys through the lineup but not sit Orpik while two of them play? No, they like Orpik.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I guess they just like him then....nobody behind him is pushing him out of the lineup that's for sure.

 

[SDBondra]

I still think GMBM probably brought in the Czechs to move Orpik down to 7. But he’s Trotz’s guy so Djoos and Bowey have to pay the price. We probably won’t ever know for sure but if Trotz is gone this offseason my gut tells me the way he clings to Orpik will have something to do with it. I really like Orpik. I root for him every game. I think he was good enough for us the past two years. It’d be nice if he did something on the ice to justify his ice time this year. Trotz could do him some favors by playing to his strengths. It seems like they’ve made some defensive adjustments the last two games - maybe there’s a system tweak that suits Orpik and some of the other players better. Or maybe it’s just confidence in net.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

What lack of discipline are you talking about? I have consistently said that Orpik's suspension and his double minor after Alzner was injured were very damaging. But those events are exceptions to the rule. A Capsism almost. Like Joel Ward's kiss of death double minor v the Rangers. Out of character for that player.

otherwise I am not sure what lack of discipline you are talking about

Stick infractions, interference, cross-checking, he's constantly among our most penalized players. This season, he's only second to Wilson with 66 PIMs, and we're talking about a guy who never fights.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

C’mon Kuzy, Malkin has 67 PIMs. Damn that undisciplined Ogre! You’re overblowing this. He’s a physical guy with limited mobility. That in no way reflects negatively for him as a leader or mentor IMO.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

C’mon Kuzy, Malkin has 67 PIMs. Damn that undisciplined Ogre! You’re overblowing this. He’s a physical guy with limited mobility.

He is an undisciplined ogre lol.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Batya, the undisciplined ogre. Lol.

 

[txpd]

Stick infractions, interference, cross-checking, he's constantly among our most penalized players. This season, he's only second to Wilson with 66 PIMs, and we're talking about a guy who never fights.

You realize that PIM's are part of his game. Right? Yes, he plays a hard game and that includes crosschecking and interference and beating up guys. He's not a tripping, hooking and h0lding guy. Neither is Tom Wilson. Kuznetsov has 4 fewer minor penalties than Orpik. Allowing for the several sets of matching r0ughing minors on Orpik's slate Kuznetsov has put the Caps on the PK more often than Orpik. Now THAT is lack of discipline.

 

[Empty Goal Net]

Does anyone know how much of the "never sit Orpik" situation can be attributed to Reirden? He may not be the ultimate decider of the lineup card, but from what I read Trotz apparently delegates significant responsibilities to his assistants. Reirden not only coaches the D, he also has a prior relationship with Orpik. And in the give-and-take of interpersonal relationships among members of a coaching staff, any good head coach will value the opinion of his direct reports. So while the buck ultimately stops with Trotz, Reirden has a role in this as well.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

I guess they just like him then....nobody behind him is pushing him out of the lineup that's for sure.

What?

Djoos has been excellent this year, he has absolutely earned a roster slot. I don't understand your logic at all, it's like you're operating under the assumption "Well if Orpik isn't scratched it must mean no one else is better." Have you been watching for the last two years? That's literally what this board has been losing their minds about, we routinely play Orpik while superior players are scratched.

Last season it took us a few playoff L's before Schmidt actually got to crack the lineup, I wonder how long it will take Barry this year before he relents and lets Djoos play. My bet is we see Djoos in an elimination game and then we lose and Trotz is like "See, it wouldn't have mattered."

 

[Ajax1995]

Honestly I think a lot of the problem with Orpik is that he has been asked to play/do too much this season, especially in the first half, averaging around 19:45 in ice time.

Last season he played 3rd pairing minutes with PK responsibility all season and averaged around 17:45 in ice time. He played next to Schmidt and Shattenkirk who both move the puck and skate well. They were really good compliments to his game IMO.

In a perfect world this season he plays the exact same role with another complimentary type player, say Djoos, and maybe you try to back off his minutes slightly.

But instead he started the year playing 2nd pair minutes and logging 20+ minutes pretty much every game and he really struggled, which wasn’t in anyway surprising IMO. And when he was bumped back down to the 3rd pair he was usually playing with Bowey, whose game isn’t really a good compliment.

I’m not saying having a $5.5 mil cap hit defenseman you need to shelter a decent amount and who needs a certain kind of partner is ideal but if you want to get the most out of said player I think that is what is required at this point in his career.

Losing Schmidt really put the team in an awful position and Orpik has suffered the most as a result.

 

[Bieronymus Trotz]

You realize that PIM's are part of his game. Right? Yes, he plays a hard game and that includes crosschecking and interference and beating up guys. He's not a tripping, hooking and h0lding guy. Neither is Tom Wilson. Kuznetsov has 4 fewer minor penalties than Orpik. Allowing for the several sets of matching r0ughing minors on Orpik's slate Kuznetsov has put the Caps on the PK more often than Orpik. Now THAT is lack of discipline.

Orpik's minor penalties, per ESPN: 6 for hooking, 6 for roughing, 4 for interference, 3 for tripping, 2 for slashing, 2 for high-sticking, 1 for holding, 1 for cross-checking.

 

[g00n]

Orpik's minor penalties, per ESPN: 6 for hooking, 6 for roughing, 4 for interference, 3 for tripping, 2 for slashing, 2 for high-sticking, 1 for holding, 1 for cross-checking.

Right. So much for not being a stick/obstruction guy. Defensemen who get those penalties are often compensating for being behind the play, usually after getting burned. A guy like Kuz takes penalties as Semin did, typically on the fore/back check. Just because Kuzy takes some head scratchers doesn't mean Orpik is a physical stalwart who's simply accumulating roughing penalties as he regulates the crease for the greater good. Everyone can see him struggle. Which is too bad.

I agree with the post about needing to rest him more. He's better in limited use, imo.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

 

[um]

The biggest factor in Trotz not sitting Orpik is his PKing I think. I'd like Trotz to at least try out Kempny, Jerabek, and Djoos there. Surely an injury will happen in the playoffs and one of them will have to PK a lot anyways.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Regardless of your opinions of Orpik. It's absolutely insane that Trotz hasn't even given us one lineup without him in it, whether it's maintenance, or toying with lines, or an actual scratching, he hasn't given us one single game.

At this point I'm more likely to believe we see a Cup win under Barry than him try a game without Orpik.