Canucks Management Discussion | Part 23

[MarkusNaslund19]

Of course you disagree, because you have supported the Benning regime for some reason. You're entitled to your opinion and welcome to be wrong though.

Weber/Bartkowski were bad. Very bad. But I don't see Filip Larsen as someone who's better than either of those two. Will Tryamkin be better? Hopefully. But he's also a rookie who's only experience has come in the KHL (with the exception of a handful of games last year).

Gudbranson is a clear downgrade on Hamhuis as well.

This team's defense has definitely gotten worse from last year. I don't see how anyone can dispute that.

Ridiculous assertion. Ben Hutton will be better. Let's not forget that he kind of ran out of gas down the stretch due to playing the longest schedule he ever has.

Edler will (hopefully) be healthier.

Sbisa will give us some more time. He was actually decent last year, but it takes fans awhile to catch up on things like that. This said, I don't think he's a fit with Tryamkin, so if we can get rid of him, we will.

Tanev is bae.

Gudbranson will absolutely be better than most of what Hamhuis has provided for the past two years. I know Hamhuis was fairly good down the stretch, after his facial reconstruction. But let's not forget that he played like hot garbage most of the last couple of years. In a perfect world we replace Sbisa with him, but there's no other D I would replace with him. And I do like Hamhuis, but he's not the right fit stylistically/age range for this team in any other slot.
While his hero charts may not be as impressive as others, Gudbranson brings exactly what we need to this team. A little balls. A guy who forces other team's forwards to keep their head's up and pay the price.

I know the game is trending away from the type of hitting that we saw in the 80's or 90's, but it's still an important part of the game and one that advanced stats don't do a good job of quantifying.
Take it from someone who played/plays the game, tough defensemen are difficult to play against.


Tryamkin is an unproven commodity. But to say he won't outplay Weber or Bartkowski seems unnecessarily pessimistic. The two of them were bottom 10 Dmen in the league. We could find better waiver wire fodder if Tryamkin needs more time. But I think he'll be good.

 

[Ryp37]

You don't play forward for a month as an injury replacement but take it how you will.

 

[rune74]

You don't play forward for a month as an injury replacement but take it how you will.

Sure? I'm just going off what was said by the oilers, I'm sure the fans had a better read though. I don't expect more then a 5/6th dman.

 

[Ryp37]

Sure? I'm just going off what was said by the oilers, I'm sure the fans had a better read though. I don't expect more then a 5/6th dman.

You're right the chances are we get what the links tell us. A player whose weak on his man but a decent puck mover/skater/power play option.

Question is if Tryamkin can develop quickly enough to cover him because Sbisa can't. I also question his ability to run the power play as Benning says, seems like he's a trigger man who just puts it on net but maybe that part of his game has developed.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Ridiculous assertion. Ben Hutton will be better. Let's not forget that he kind of ran out of gas down the stretch due to playing the longest schedule he ever has.

Edler will (hopefully) be healthier.

Sbisa will give us some more time. He was actually decent last year, but it takes fans awhile to catch up on things like that. This said, I don't think he's a fit with Tryamkin, so if we can get rid of him, we will.

Tanev is bae.

Gudbranson will absolutely be better than most of what Hamhuis has provided for the past two years. I know Hamhuis was fairly good down the stretch, after his facial reconstruction. But let's not forget that he played like hot garbage most of the last couple of years. In a perfect world we replace Sbisa with him, but there's no other D I would replace with him. And I do like Hamhuis, but he's not the right fit stylistically/age range for this team in any other slot.
While his hero charts may not be as impressive as others, Gudbranson brings exactly what we need to this team. A little balls. A guy who forces other team's forwards to keep their head's up and pay the price.

I know the game is trending away from the type of hitting that we saw in the 80's or 90's, but it's still an important part of the game and one that advanced stats don't do a good job of quantifying.
Take it from someone who played/plays the game, tough defensemen are difficult to play against.


Tryamkin is an unproven commodity. But to say he won't outplay Weber or Bartkowski seems unnecessarily pessimistic. The two of them were bottom 10 Dmen in the league. We could find better waiver wire fodder if Tryamkin needs more time. But I think he'll be good.

It's not ridiculous at all.

You don't know that Hutton will be better. He likely won't get much time with Tanev, so he'll be paired with either Gudbranson (an awful puck possession player who was awful when paired with anyone but a legitimate top line defenseman) or Tryamkin/Larsen. Basically, Hutton is going to have to carry his pairing. I'm very high on Hutton but I think you're expecting too much there.

Gudbranson will not be better than Hamhuis. That's absolutely laughable and suggests a complete lack of understanding of the quality of player Gudbranson is. Having "balls" and forcing guys to "keep their heads up" doesn't win you hockey games. The advanced stats don't do a good job at quantifying these traits because there is a very low correlation between those traits and winning hockey games. Something that some people fail to understand. If there were a high correlation then there would be an emphasis for advanced stats on those.

Oh well. Just don't act surprise when the defense sucks this year. I told ya so.

 

[Hit the post]

Not sure about comparing Gudbranson to Hamhuis (since they play different sides on the blueline). At the very least, Gudbranson isn't going to start the season saddled with a career #7 D like Hamhuis was (worst/closest thing Willie can do is to pair him up with Pizza....shudder.....).

 

[MikeK]

Ridiculous assertion. Ben Hutton will be better. Let's not forget that he kind of ran out of gas down the stretch due to playing the longest schedule he ever has.

Edler will (hopefully) be healthier.

Sbisa will give us some more time. He was actually decent last year, but it takes fans awhile to catch up on things like that. This said, I don't think he's a fit with Tryamkin, so if we can get rid of him, we will.

Tanev is bae.

Gudbranson will absolutely be better than most of what Hamhuis has provided for the past two years. I know Hamhuis was fairly good down the stretch, after his facial reconstruction. But let's not forget that he played like hot garbage most of the last couple of years. In a perfect world we replace Sbisa with him, but there's no other D I would replace with him. And I do like Hamhuis, but he's not the right fit stylistically/age range for this team in any other slot.
While his hero charts may not be as impressive as others, Gudbranson brings exactly what we need to this team. A little balls. A guy who forces other team's forwards to keep their head's up and pay the price.

I know the game is trending away from the type of hitting that we saw in the 80's or 90's, but it's still an important part of the game and one that advanced stats don't do a good job of quantifying.
Take it from someone who played/plays the game, tough defensemen are difficult to play against.


Tryamkin is an unproven commodity. But to say he won't outplay Weber or Bartkowski seems unnecessarily pessimistic. The two of them were bottom 10 Dmen in the league. We could find better waiver wire fodder if Tryamkin needs more time. But I think he'll be good.

Your argument is flawed. It is based entirely on assumptions rather than fact.

 

[MS]

Your argument is flawed. It is based entirely on assumptions rather than fact.

Or just complete falsehoods, like the notion that Hamhuis was 'hot garbage' for the past couple years.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Or just complete falsehoods, like the notion that Hamhuis was 'hot garbage' for the past couple years.

It's okay though. If you say you like a player that means your entire false assessment of said player is valid.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Ridiculous assertion. Ben Hutton will be better. Let's not forget that he kind of ran out of gas down the stretch due to playing the longest schedule he ever has.

And let's not forget it's his second season, which is when a lot of players struggle. Assuming he wil be better is foolish, as I said. He might be.

Edler will (hopefully) be healthier.

Based on?

And so on. Listen, saying I hope this will happen, is not the same thing as this will happen. Dear God is it not.

We will probably have a stretch of play without Edler and tanev, just as we have the past three seasons, and at that time our defense is barely AHL quality. I don't know how you can be okay with that.

 

[thenextone]

Okay so seeing the Scheifle and MacK deals...any guesses what Horvats next contract will be? Do they give him 7 or 8 years and overpay early?

 

[VanillaCoke]

I'd give Horvat 8 years 36m in a heartbeat.
I doubt his agent let's him sign a longer deal with out it being overpayment.

 

[thenextone]

I'd give Horvat 8 years 36m in a heartbeat.
I doubt his agent let's him sign a longer deal with out it being overpayment.

I agree the Canucks take that deal any day of the week if possible.

 

[rune74]

It's okay though. If you say you like a player that means your entire false assessment of said player is valid.

The irony here is that you do the opposite, meaning if you dislike a player your false assessment is valid.

Edit: autocorrect did some weird thing

 

[Verviticus]

Gudbranson will absolutely be better than most of what Hamhuis has provided for the past two years.

show your work

 

[sting101]

I guess after last yr its easy to be pessimistic.

Top6- Eriksson is a huge upgrade on an unwilling combatant in Vrbata. Should on paper give us a dozen more goals and be a 2way competitor not a -30 malcontent. Horvat imo has to be viewed as a legitimate 2 way scorer who unlike last year will be able to hold his own defensively and produce 45-50pts. Baertchi without a doubt becomes a productive offensive player. He was our most dangerous player throughout the latter parts of the season.

Top4 D - Edler and Tanev healthy is a massive positive. Huttons game oozes potential and with a healthy 1st pairing he can continue to expand his role. Gudbranson is a huge presence and can eat 20-25 minutes a game. He brings a stylistic match for Hutton....unlike Hamhuis who is a purely left side #3 at this stage. Our top4 eats 45-50minutes a game and is way better than injury prone soft Hamhuis and Weber who completely lost his way.

Depth wise- Sutter should make a significant mark on our penalty kill and shut down roles. Etem Rodin Granlund are low maintenance and also bring an element of scoring and speed. Virtanen can be a huge wildcard if his game goes to the next level. Burr is always a gamer. The depth D is fluid. Players will come available if were competitive and in the meantime Tryamkin Larsen Sbisa Pedan Subban Stecher and Juolevi get to try and make marks. While it may be necessary to retain help sooner than later. It still looks better than Bartkowski Weber and Corrado.

 

[Hit the post]

injury prone soft Hamhuis

He got 'injury prone' when he put on the Canucks jersey. Oddly enough, so did Keith Ballard. In fact, both players were known to miss *very few* games in a season.

Must be something in our water...

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

show your work

I have been student of the game for 20 years. I trust my eyes over your hero charts.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

And let's not forget it's his second season, which is when a lot of players struggle. Assuming he wil be better is foolish, as I said. He might be.



Based on?

And so on. Listen, saying I hope this will happen, is not the same thing as this will happen. Dear God is it not.

We will probably have a stretch of play without Edler and tanev, just as we have the past three seasons, and at that time our defense is barely AHL quality. I don't know how you can be okay with that.

No team would be okay without their top pairing.

 

[Hit the post]

No team would be okay without their top pairing.

We took the Bruins to seven games with Salo being the only healthy D.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

No team would be okay without their top pairing.

They'd be better off than us. This isn't some binary system.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Your argument is flawed. It is based entirely on assumptions rather than fact.

Well, it's called prognostication. Despite what a bunch of keyboard warriors think, advanced metrics aren't "fact" when pointing to the future either.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Or just complete falsehoods, like the notion that Hamhuis was 'hot garbage' for the past couple years.

We're you watching? He was a fabulous player and then the wheels fell off. He's still decent but doesn't make sense on our team.

Speaking of absolute falsehoods, you were the guy who wanted to put edler on waivers two seasons ago, correct?

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I guess after last yr its easy to be pessimistic.

Top6- Eriksson is a huge upgrade on an unwilling combatant in Vrbata. Should on paper give us a dozen more goals and be a 2way competitor not a -30 malcontent. Horvat imo has to be viewed as a legitimate 2 way scorer who unlike last year will be able to hold his own defensively and produce 45-50pts. Baertchi without a doubt becomes a productive offensive player. He was our most dangerous player throughout the latter parts of the season.

Top4 D - Edler and Tanev healthy is a massive positive. Huttons game oozes potential and with a healthy 1st pairing he can continue to expand his role. Gudbranson is a huge presence and can eat 20-25 minutes a game. He brings a stylistic match for Hutton....unlike Hamhuis who is a purely left side #3 at this stage. Our top4 eats 45-50minutes a game and is way better than injury prone soft Hamhuis and Weber who completely lost his way.

Depth wise- Sutter should make a significant mark on our penalty kill and shut down roles. Etem Rodin Granlund are low maintenance and also bring an element of scoring and speed. Virtanen can be a huge wildcard if his game goes to the next level. Burr is always a gamer. The depth D is fluid. Players will come available if were competitive and in the meantime Tryamkin Larsen Sbisa Pedan Subban Stecher and Juolevi get to try and make marks. While it may be necessary to retain help sooner than later. It still looks better than Bartkowski Weber and Corrado.

I agree with a lot of this. Nobody is calling us a cup contender, but we're not as bad as a lot of the chicken littles claim.

 

[WonderTwinsUnite]

I guess after last yr its easy to be pessimistic.

Top6- Eriksson is a huge upgrade on an unwilling combatant in Vrbata. Should on paper give us a dozen more goals and be a 2way competitor not a -30 malcontent. Horvat imo has to be viewed as a legitimate 2 way scorer who unlike last year will be able to hold his own defensively and produce 45-50pts. Baertchi without a doubt becomes a productive offensive player. He was our most dangerous player throughout the latter parts of the season.

Top4 D - Edler and Tanev healthy is a massive positive. Huttons game oozes potential and with a healthy 1st pairing he can continue to expand his role. Gudbranson is a huge presence and can eat 20-25 minutes a game. He brings a stylistic match for Hutton....unlike Hamhuis who is a purely left side #3 at this stage. Our top4 eats 45-50minutes a game and is way better than injury prone soft Hamhuis and Weber who completely lost his way.

Depth wise- Sutter should make a significant mark on our penalty kill and shut down roles. Etem Rodin Granlund are low maintenance and also bring an element of scoring and speed. Virtanen can be a huge wildcard if his game goes to the next level. Burr is always a gamer. The depth D is fluid. Players will come available if were competitive and in the meantime Tryamkin Larsen Sbisa Pedan Subban Stecher and Juolevi get to try and make marks. While it may be necessary to retain help sooner than later. It still looks better than Bartkowski Weber and Corrado.

Why are you assuming that Edler and Tanev are going to be healthy, exactly? Tanev has, not once, missed less than twelve games in a year, while Edler is now over 30, and has played an average of 65 games every year since 2010-2011 (Adjusting for the lockout in 2012-13).

Either of them being healthy, let alone both, would be a massive anomaly. To hope for that is optimism, but to rely on that, as Benning and you appear to have done, is foolhardy.