Canucks Management Discussion | Part 23

[Ryp37]

My gutt is telling me the doomcuff owners are not willing to do a proper rebuild. The Erickson contract told me that. We are on a cliff and I would rather suffer two or three years of hell and the next 5 of finishing just out of the playoffs and getting screwed in the lotto

I find these tweets by botch pretty interesting
https://twitter.com/botchford/status/748934196840706049
https://twitter.com/botchford/status/748934791077040128
https://twitter.com/botchford/status/748941789915062272

 

[Hit the post]

He got hosed on garrison, not bieksa.

Benning was the GM that clearly won that trade (by a huge margin) - re: Bieksa trade.

Difference being - Garrison was a 2nd pairing D when he was dealt vs Bieksa (who's was a 3rd pairing D - albeit right side one - when he was dealt).

 

[y2kcanucks]

He got hosed on garrison, not bieksa.

He got hosed on Garrison, had a solid deal for Bieksa but ****ed that up a month later, and he got hosed on Hamhuis.

 

[Grub]

He's 29 though. Would have been ideal if he were 24. Still though, I'd be interested depending on the AAV and term.

Sedins had their career years at around that age. 29 is not old at all.

 

[Ryp37]

He got hosed on Garrison, had a solid deal for Bieksa but ****ed that up a month later, and he got hosed on Hamhuis.

I think people forget Bieksa had quite a few teams who wanted him, San Jose Anaheim and St. Louis off the top of my head, still a good trade but people act like its a giant steal

 

[Hit the post]

I think people forget Bieksa had quite a few teams who wanted him, San Jose Anaheim and St. Louis off the top of my head, still a good trade but people act like its a giant steal

Benning should be given credit for capitalizing on the past reputation of Bieksa. It was a giant steal regardless of who else might have wanted him.

 

[xtra]

If the guy is a superstar it doesnt' matter if he's 29 or 24.

 

[Fat Tony]

Sedins had their career years at around that age. 29 is not old at all.

Sedins are outliers. Most forwards have their peak offensive season at around age 25.

 

[me2]

Benning should be given credit for capitalizing on the past reputation of Bieksa. It was a giant steal regardless of who else might have wanted him.

He got offered more valuable picks and somehow took the lesser value.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

If the guy is a superstar it doesnt' matter if he's 29 or 24.

I would probably support a full rebuild of the canucks, but as ownership doesn't want to allow that signing a guy like Shipachyov is probably the next best thing. The canucks lose nothing but money to sign a very very good player in his prime.

It helps the canucks more now and hurts them a whole lot less in the future than trading for a player anyway.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Sedins are outliers. Most forwards have their peak offensive season at around age 25.

Shipachyov must be an outlier as well then because his best season was last year at age 28.

 

[Gaunce4gm]

If the guy is a superstar it doesnt' matter if he's 29 or 24.

CANNOT STRESS THAT ENOUGH!

Also he is a cerebral playmaking centre that will not age in a Bertuzzi/Lucic/Backes way. He will most likely still be playing at a high level in 5 years time (34)

Which is when Baertschi/Horvat/Virtanen/Boeser/Juolevi/Hutton/Tryamkin/Demko/Subban/Gaunce/Stecher
Etc will all be 23-27 and competitive.

 

[me2]

Shipachyov must be an outlier as well then because his best season was last year at age 28.

You could argue for 11-12 22 goals and 59 points in 54 vs 17g 60p. Statistically t there isn't any difference, maybe goals tip it slightly to his 24yo season. More a case maintaining his peak, give our take the usual troughs.

 

[KeninsFan]

CANNOT STRESS THAT ENOUGH!

Also he is a cerebral playmaking centre that will not age in a Bertuzzi/Lucic/Backes way. He will most likely still be playing at a high level in 5 years time (34)

Which is when Baertschi/Horvat/Virtanen/Boeser/Juolevi/Hutton/Tryamkin/Demko/Subban/Gaunce/Stecher
Etc will all be 23-27 and competitive.

That's excellent news if Benning can sign the guy. For all his warts Benning's non-aversion to Russians/KHL players can be a way for compensating for his shortcomings (like Gillis with signing college FAs).

Management is going to push for playoffs whether the fans agree or not and signing a bonafide 2nd liner in Hudler and a guy who should do well in Shipachyov is a lot better than hoping Sutter magically becomes a 2C.

And it'll push Virtanen down to the AHL - where he'll be groomed by a superior coach in Travis Green. Hopefully there's less 'off ice distractions' in Utica compared to say...downtown Vancouver.

Age gap (Sbisa), fast forwarding development (McCann) were all half assed attempts at rebuilding properly. I can get on board with signing veterans if it means the blue chippers will be developed properly.

I would probably support a full rebuild of the canucks, but as ownership doesn't want to allow that signing a guy like Shipachyov is probably the next best thing. The canucks lose nothing but money to sign a very very good player in his prime.

I would've loved Radulov for the same reason. At a 1 year deal worst case scenario Benning flips him for a 3rd...maybe throws a 5th back at the other team lol.

 

[Black Noise]

Sedins are outliers. Most forwards have their peak offensive season at around age 25.

Thats not true.

Thronton, Dastyuk, Pavelski, Zetterberg, Wheeler, Jokinen, Ribeiro, Hartnell, Steen, Marleau.

These guys all peaked after 25 or put up similar production to their "peaks" after 28. And that was with 5 minutes of research, if I kept going I would find many more.

 

[Fat Tony]

Thats not true.

Thronton, Dastyuk, Pavelski, Zetterberg, Wheeler, Jokinen, Ribeiro, Hartnell, Steen, Marleau.

These guys all peaked after 25 or put up similar production to their "peaks" after 28. And that was with 5 minutes of research, if I kept going I would find many more.

Most...

 

[Black Noise]

Most...

Not most, it's pretty split.

 

[Fat Tony]

Not most, it's pretty split.

Yes, most. Even the guys you listed started their declines mid-20s. Some guys decline slowly. Other guys just fall out the NHL unnoticed.

 

[Pip]

Not most, it's pretty split.

I don't believe that's the case actually. Elite players can often maintain a high level of production but for the majority of players they peak early in their careers.

 

[Verviticus]

Not most, it's pretty split.

lol yeah there are only 20 players in the nhl

 

[Black Noise]

I don't believe that's the case actually. Elite players can often maintain a high level of production but for the majority of players they peak early in their careers.

They may peak in their mid twenties but lots of players as good as Shipachyov can continue to produce at a similar rate later into their careers.

 

[Black Noise]

lol yeah there are only 20 players in the nhl

Yes because those are the only examples. Like I said it took me a couple minutes just to find those.

 

[Verviticus]

cool. since its 50/50, you should be able to find like, hundreds of examples pretty easily, right? i mean, i didnt make the claim

 

[Pip]

They may peak in their mid twenties but lots of players as good as Shipachyov can continue to produce at a similar rate later into their careers.

Some can but most tend to drop off.

 

[Fat Tony]

Yes because those are the only examples. Like I said it took me a couple minutes just to find those.

Of course they were easy to find. Pro sports lionizes its outliers. Did you look down the list at the Cody Hodgsons and Kyle Brodziaks?