Pre-Game Talk: Canes @ Leafs, Thursday Oct 26th at 7pm

[Kiwi]

thanks y'all.
actually, yah. if you can't be a centre in Montreal....

but basically, considering everyone who grumbled grumbled, maybe you can argue Laich but basically Babcock is right.. you whine about not being able to play then you go somewhere else and you're not in the NHL either.

I think there was pretty solid opinion on the board that Corrado/Holland etc were plugs without much redeeming value, i'd include Laich in that

Leivo is way more interesting though, is he not playing because he's bad or because of our insane good quality forward depth?

I wouldn't mind getting a look at him if only for his potential trade value, we're just insanely healthy at the moment

 

[Daisy Jane]

I think there was pretty solid opinion on the board that Corrado/Holland etc were plugs without much redeeming value, i'd include Laich in that

Leivo is way more interesting though, is he not playing because he's bad or because of our insane good quality forward depth?

I wouldn't mind getting a look at him if only for his potential trade value, we're just insanely healthy at the moment

well I excluded laich because he's playing in the show right now.

 

[Kiwi]

well I excluded laich because he's playing in the show right now.

He's a plug, the only guys I care about are guys that get ditched that would be an improvement on the current team, this management team is batting 1000 in that regard

 

[Daisy Jane]

He's a plug, the only guys I care about are guys that get ditched that would be an improvement on the current team, this management team is batting 1000 in that regard

meh. i think that's relatively dismissive. my thing is. can they play for the team and be of help - or in babcock's case, are they even in the NHL. out of everyone who whined and is no longer part of the organization, only 1 is actually playing right now. Laich. plug or not, he can still play in the show.


however i do acknowledge i am the board meany that i truly don't think people should whine or ask for trades or stuff. just be patient, and your time will come.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Cant wait, lets do it

 

[Kiwi]

meh. i think that's relatively dismissive. my thing is. can they play for the team and be of help - or in babcock's case, are they even in the NHL. out of everyone who whined and is no longer part of the organization, only 1 is actually playing right now. Laich. plug or not, he can still play in the show.


however i do acknowledge i am the board meany that i truly don't think people should whine or ask for trades or stuff. just be patient, and your time will come.

I have no problem sitting guys, but if Babcock has zero faith in them I'd just prefer us to get rid of them, especially if they become a distraction like Corrado ended up being

I also don't mind players asking for trades, that's there livelihood and if they think there getting a raw deal go for it, that doesn't mean the team has to oblige them though

Laich is a plug, I call them how I see them Daisy, they basically all have been except for Panic and I don't think he'd even make this team

 

[Daisy Jane]

I have no problem sitting guys, but if Babcock has zero faith in them I'd just prefer us to get rid of them, especially if they become a distraction like Corrado ended up being

I also don't mind players asking for trades, that's there livelihood and if they think there getting a raw deal go for it, that doesn't mean the team has to oblige them though

Laich is a plug, I call them how I see them Daisy, they basically all have been except for Panic and I don't think he'd even make this team

Plugs can play hockey too

 

[cookie]

I actually think a Brown - Bozak - Marner line could be deadly.

Hyman matthews nylander
Marleau kadri komarov
Leivo moore martin
Brown bozak marner

4 balanced lines

 

[Raging Bull]

The biggest hurdle for Leivo is being expected to be up to game speed whenever he's thrown into the lineup. He can practice all the time, but he's not going to be sharp only playing in 18 games last year.

 

[dimi78]

Better than not scoring at all? He's at a PPG... he's doing something, which is a lot more than a big portion of the league.

I don't understand why he gets flack when there could be a lot to be said about other players.

That's right you don't understand. You know who does? Brett Hull who didn't start competing until Hitchcock got his hands on him. His goals and points went down but he became a much better player to his team in the name of winning than he was as an 86 goal scorer. You know who else understands? Steve Yzerman when Scotty Bouwman got his hands on him and flat out told Yzerman how he has to change if he wants to win. The result was a player who became one of the all time great complete hockey players.

Now ask yourself this. Why can't JVR change? Why can't he compete, forcheck, win puck battles for his team mates? He's not good enough to get by with just skill while his line mates do all the work to get him goals. That's not winning hockey.

Your right goals are important but the HOW they get those goals is even more important. JVR is a dog period.

 

[Kiwi]

Plugs can play hockey too

Play yes, but play well?

I'd say no

 

[Canada4Gold]

I highly doubt it was about fehr, he is still with the team and up until yesterday was on the 4C role on rotation basis I cant believe babs just turned on him today. Its about Corrado, Cowen or Michalek. Most likely Corrado he was the only one who didn't get to play anywhere

Wouldn't shock me if it was about Fehr. For them to put Fehr on waivers and then keep him with the team, teams usually have a reason for doing that. Yeah there's increased flexibility for the next 30 days by doing so, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was meant as a kick to the butt of Fehr. a "look nobody else wants you either, you can shutup and stay here, and accept your job which won't be playing every game, or complain about go the way of all the others who left and realized that nobody else wanted them either while they played out their careers in the minors"

 

[crump]

Looks like Brown and Bozak were demoted to the 4th line today.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

5 goals and 9 points in 9 games. I wouldn't wish that at all.

He hates JVR because he's not capable of winning a Selke, me? I don't care his job is to score and he does that.

 

[OVO16]

JVR is good at what he does, which is to score goals. Everything else he's either mediocre or just trash at.

But regardless, our time period (this past offseason) for trading JVR has passed. A playoff team is not going to trading 25-30 goal top 6 forward at the trade deadline. It would make no sense.

And lets face it...once the playoffs roll around, we all know how hard it gets to score goals. Doesnt matter how much offensive talent a team has, we need all the goal scorers we can get

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Carolina is a dangerous team, top to bottom, especially if new guy can be better than Ward (which really shouldn't be hard). One of my favorite underdog teams right now, full of young talent that plays the right way.

Leafs will have to be sharp.

They haven't looked very dangerous so far this year. Way too inconsistent and other than Skinner, the entire team is struggling to score. They'll play great defensively one game and only score 1 goal, then score goals and play crappy defensively. Haven't really put together a complete game yet. Skinner, Slavin/Pesce, Lindholm and Fleury have been solid. Hanifin has been bi-polar, kind of like the early version of Gardiner. Other than that, struggling to get it going.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Would be nice if Leivo and Komarov switched places.

Also on your point about Carolina. They seem to be a good posession team, good overall team speed and good depth. Where it looks like they lack is they dont have one truly elite player and it looks like they lack shooters or have trouble finishing.

They really have 2 forwards who are a danger to score, Skinner and Aho, and similar to last year where it was 19 games before he scored his 1st goal, Aho is fighting it out of the gate. The hope is that Justin Williams will add scoring punch, but you are right. They don't have elite forward talent (although Skinner is an elite goal scorer) so struggle to score.

For playing a "similar" system, the Leafs are way more wide open than the Canes, as I watch both a lot. Makes sense because the Leafs have way more offensive talent than the Canes, but the Leafs forwards fly the zone much sooner/more often than Carolina does.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Be careful what you wish for. JVR's production has been great. Josh Leivo is no JVR.

This Cane's team is built to give us fits. They'll be a pain in our Aho's for sure.

most people don't understand this, they think JVR is this replaceable piece that we don't need and won't miss

 

[Fogelhund]

most people don't understand this, they think JVR is this replaceable piece that we don't need and won't miss

Sure, we'd miss JvR, and our goal scoring may go down a bit... but need? That's I think many might disagree on. Insert a Leivo/Kap/Sosh... and we'd likely lose offensive production a bit, though we would likely be a bit better defensively. But, the thinking is, by obtaining a very good defensive side RHD, through trading JvR, we would improve even further defensively and improve overall as a team, particularly in the playoffs when things get tighter. JvR, for all his regular season success, is less that .5 ppg in the playoffs, and negative player, over 52 games. It's great to be regular season leaders in goal scoring, but better to get to the playoffs, and be built to win there.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Sure, we'd miss JvR, and our goal scoring may go down a bit... but need? That's I think many might disagree on. Insert a Leivo/Kap/Sosh... and we'd likely lose offensive production a bit, though we would likely be a bit better defensively. But, the thinking is, by obtaining a very good defensive side RHD, through trading JvR, we would improve even further defensively and improve overall as a team, particularly in the playoffs when things get tighter. JvR, for all his regular season success, is less that .5 ppg in the playoffs, and negative player, over 52 games. It's great to be regular season leaders in goal scoring, but better to get to the playoffs, and be built to win there.

JVR is a rental when was the last time you saw a rental go for anything but futures? I can't remember it.

you aren't getting a top 4 D for JVR

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

What incremental improvement would the Leafs get by trading JVR for a D? Is the guy you get back at this stage of the game (season already started and JVR a UFA at season end) going to be that much of an improvement over Zaitsev, Gardiner, Rielly, Hainsey that it warrants losing JVR, at a point where the Leafs are trying to win now?

 

[Fogelhund]

JVR is a rental when was the last time you saw a rental go for anything but futures? I can't remember it.

you aren't getting a top 4 D for JVR

I didn't say we would get a top 4 D for JvR....

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I didn't say we would get a top 4 D for JvR....

then there is no point in moving him because that is what we need

 

[Fogelhund]

then there is no point in moving him because that is what we need

It's a shame when people can only see one move at a time on a chess board.

 

[weems]

What incremental improvement would the Leafs get by trading JVR for a D? Is the guy you get back at this stage of the game (season already started and JVR a UFA at season end) going to be that much of an improvement over Zaitsev, Gardiner, Rielly, Hainsey that it warrants losing JVR, at a point where the Leafs are trying to win now?

I dont think they'd move him unless the D coming back is unquestionably good (which I question if you can get with a JVR as the main piece in a walk year).
Most likely we hold onto him, hope we make a nice run in the playoffs and let him walk and use the capspace. Not the best resources of assets but I doubt management thought we would be this good this soon.