Rumor: Canadiens interested in offer sheeting Laine

[habsfan891]

I like Laine but not that much. This is about offer sheet compensation. My approach is this..

- Offer sheet Laine (5 years at $10M)
or
- Suzuki, Juulsen or 1st, 2nd 3rd
or
- Armia, Juulsen, 1st, 2nd, 3rd
or
they match and we offer Connor a offer sheet above market AAV.

If it all falls through, I'm willing to move on. I don't think Juulsen, Suzuki, and a 1st far off in value but fair trade value for a player who does not have a contract? Rather offer $10.4M in a offer sheet and potentially give up 2-1st, 2nd, 3rd.

Suzuki, Juulsen, 1st >> 2-1st, 2nd, 3rd.

My trade offer is understanding that you have a contract ready to have Laine sign when the trade is made

 

[Heldig]

OK. We can offer sheet him for 5 years at $10M then. You either match or get two 1sts, 2nd, 3rd. Where is the impact player or prospect in this package?

- Juulsen and Armia > 1st (likely 15-31 range)
- 1st = 1st
- 2nd, 3rd = 2nd, 3rd

Or you match the offer sheet. Understand the approach now? I know you want a higher return but context matters in negotiation. The minute you match, we go after Conner.

And are you going to overpay Connor? If not the jets match that too.

 

[jrs]

I like Laine but not that much. This is about offer sheet compensation. My approach is this..

- Offer sheet Laine (5 years at $10M)
or
- Suzuki, Juulsen or 1st, 2nd 3rd
or
- Armia, Juulsen, 1st, 2nd, 3rd
or
they match and we offer Connor a offer sheet above market AAV.

If it all falls through, I'm willing to move on. I don't think Juulsen, Suzuki, and a 1st far off in value but fair trade value for a player who does not have a contract? Rather offer $10.4M in a offer sheet and potentially give up 2-1st, 2nd, 3rd.

Suzuki, Juulsen, 1st >> 2-1st, 2nd, 3rd.

All of this is terrible and won’t get you anything

 

[Habs Halifax]

My trade offer is understanding that you have a contract ready to have Laine sign when the trade is made

I would rather give Laine $10.4M and give up 2-1st, 2nd, 3rd vs give them Suzuki, Juulsen, 1st for Laine at $9M. Also, If Laine won't sign for $9M with the Jets, he won't with the Habs.

If they match, they match. Worth the try based on their cap situation

 

[Habs Halifax]

And are you going to overpay Connor? If not the jets match that too.

Yes, we would overpay Connor and if you match, you match. Why would the Habs not try? This is within the rules and it's nothing personal. If we were in your situation, I'd be worried about it too cause you want to improve the RD and overpaying for both Laine and Connor hurts your ability to do so

 

[garyturner3]

It's almost like improvement is impossible...

Timmins has been nothing short of great the past few years. No reason to believe the next few years will be bad.

I'm sure a lot of fans thought the exact same thing at one point about a number of the prospects Legend123 just listed between 2008-2015. That's how it works with prospects. Pretty much every one of them is destined to hit their ceiling in the eyes of the fans until one day they don't. Not saying the prospects MTL has now are all going to be busts by any means because they look solid for sure. Just saying it's waaaaay too early to make any sort of determination on them at this point.

 

[habsfan891]

I would rather give Laine $10.4M and give up 2-1st, 2nd, 3rd vs give them Suzuki, Juulsen, 1st for Laine at $9M. Also, If Laine won't sign for $9M with the Jets, he won't with the Habs.

If they match, they match. Worth the try based on their cap situation

Fair enough seems like we agree on wanting to get Laine just disagree on the best way to go about it

 

[tbcwpg]

I don't think you are considering context of Laine and the offer sheet approach. The only leverage you have is to match the offer sheet at a higher AAV than you would like. And I believe you rather not have Laine at $10M or $10.4M where you have other roster holes at RD to fix with very little cap space

The Jets almost $22m in cap space is going to be used substantially by Laine and Connor. The other roster holes are gonna have to be filled internally or by what's on the roster already.

Even with the threat of an offer sheet, the Jets aren't going to take what is frankly a pretty bad offer for Laine just because he might sign an offer sheet. I'm sure they would be uncomfortable but would match anything that's not in the four first range. If it was in that range, I think they'd consider matching depending on the dollar amount. If Montreal wants to massively overpay, then that return is better than Juulsen,Armia, and a 1st.

 

[Buffdog]

I would rather give Laine $10.4M and give up 2-1st, 2nd, 3rd vs give them Suzuki, Juulsen, 1st for Laine at $9M. Also, If Laine won't sign for $9M with the Jets, he won't with the Habs.
Jets match 10.4

There's two ways the Habs can get Laine:
1. Offer him over the threshold for four first rounders and the Jets take the picks and start working on a nice little thank you pate video for the first time he comes back to the peg (jets match all other offers)
2. You put KK on the table in a trade

If you're not willing to do that, go find your own 21 year old potentially generational goal scorer with your mix of second round picks, depth players and ok prospects

 

[Guffman]

I'd like to see him offer a 500k to 1m overpay for Laine. It'll probs get matched but worth a shot. I would Laine's value on a 5 year contract is close to Aho so around 8.5-9m

And earlier in the thread, you said Laine’s recent season (30G, 50P) should be the primary basis to assess his value (in the context of saying the Habs shouldn’t give up much).

Now, you think a 50P player should get around 9M?

This thread is honestly stupid and it doesn’t help when posters can’t even keep a consistent opinion.

With respect to “worth a shot”, in what universe do the Jets ever not match that? If they hate the contract a lot, they trade him a year later rather than get the offer sheet draft pittance you would get for that contract.

 

[habsfan891]

There's two ways the Habs can get Laine:
1. Offer him over the threshold for four first rounders and the Jets take the picks and start working on a nice little thank you pate video for the first time he comes back to the peg (jets match all other offers)
2. You put KK on the table in a trade

If you're not willing to do that, go find your own 21 year old potentially generational goal scorer with your mix of second round picks, depth players and ok prospects

The only problem with offering kk is that the reason to get Laine is for kk's wing so if kk is necessary i dont see a possible deal to be made

 

[RationalExpectations]

There's two ways the Habs can get Laine:
1. Offer him over the threshold for four first rounders and the Jets take the picks and start working on a nice little thank you pate video for the first time he comes back to the peg (jets match all other offers)
2. You put KK on the table in a trade

If you're not willing to do that, go find your own 21 year old potentially generational goal scorer with your mix of second round picks, depth players and ok prospects

Not sure a trade will happen, if it does MTL needs to include one of Poehling, Suzuki (I believe the idea is to have Laine playing with KK) and build up on that. I believe WPG would prefer prospects with potential to be ready in a few years rather than picks (esp. if you think Laine will help MTL to contend) but only time will tell.

 

[Whileee]

Seems like a lot of mistaking the value of 4 1st round picks with Montreal’s inability to draft well in the first round.

Montreal isn’t offering 4 1st round picks for Laine — 4 Montreal 1st round picks could be be good picks in the coming half decade, and Winnipeg can easily turn those in packages to add similar features.

This notion that Montreal will offer sheet anyone above the threshold for a 1st/2nd/3rd is silly (well, maybe Marner isn’t out of the conversation, but that would be dumb, too).

Yup. The obvious question is why Bergevin didn't want to offer an extra $900 to push Aho into the next compensation tier (two 1sts) when that would have been more enticing to the Canes to not match. The obvious answer is that Bergevin didn't want to pay more compensation than a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Aho. Why would he want to spend four 1sts on Laine, or even two 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd. Aho is more what the Habs need, and clearly their higher priority offer sheet target.

 

[Buffdog]

Not sure a trade will happen, if it does MTL needs to include one of Poehling, Suzuki (I believe the idea is to have Laine playing with KK) and build up on that. I believe WPG would prefer prospects with potential to be ready in a few years rather than picks (esp. if you think Laine will help MTL to contend) but only time will tell.

If you think KK and Laine will be a good fit, you can just trade him to us.

We'll send you Copp, niku, a first and a second.

See how that feels? And KK hasn't accomplished anything close to Laine in his career.

 

[Whileee]

Yes, we would overpay Connor and if you match, you match. Why would the Habs not try? This is within the rules and it's nothing personal. If we were in your situation, I'd be worried about it too cause you want to improve the RD and overpaying for both Laine and Connor hurts your ability to do so

Jets don't have the cap space to improve RD this off-season, regardless. They are going with a young D this season, or they will trade a top F for RD. They can revisit this next off-season and trade one of their forwards for RD. Chevy isn't desperate, as Bergevin seems to be.

 

[Guffman]

No team is stupid enough to give up 4 firsts

Habs last 4 first round picks:
Cole Caulfield
Jesperi Kotkaniemi
Ryan Poehling
Mikhail Sergachev

I would not trade that package for Laine

Yeah, because a team rebuilding and drafting high would have the same quality of draftees as an up and coming playoff team.

You can consider giving up four first round picks for a premier player IF your team is or will be a playoff team. You obviously would never do that if you’re going to give up future lottery picks.

 

[RationalExpectations]

If you think KK and Laine will be a good fit, you can just trade him to us.

We'll send you Copp, niku, a first and a second.

See how that feels? And KK hasn't accomplished anything close to Laine in his career.

I am not sure why you would take it so personally, I mention "not sure if it would happen" we are only speculating but ok, maybe if you think from a cap perspective and team needs it would make more sense to send KK to WPG, feel free to defend your point of view.

 

[Guffman]

But if Winnipeg is offering 8M and we’re offering 10M he might just take the money. Now is that a big enough difference for Chevy not to match? I don’t know

OK, here is how you think this through. If the Jets think Laine is not worth $10M/5 years, here is the analysis:

What could the Jets get trading Laine a year from now after matching? Is it expected to be higher than 2 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd (and after assessing where those picks would likely fall based on Habs expected finish with Laine). If so, they match.

If they feel the draft compensation is better AND they have NO HOPE that Laine, a goal scoring phenom since he entered the league, will improve his overall game (because apparently, 21 is the new prime), then maybe they don’t match.

In other words, they match.

So everyone, stop with your hair brained offers and the “Oh, what if we offer Connor THIS and then Laine THAT!”

It’s like you people are trying to figure out how to try to shake a player off the Jets while ignoring whether it even makes sense for your team to do that.

 

[Buffdog]

I am not sure why you would take it so personally, I mention "not sure if it would happen" we are only speculating but ok, maybe if you think from a cap perspective and team needs it would make more sense to send KK to WPG, feel free to defend your point of view.

I'm not taking anything personally. I just tried to show you how ridiculous these proposals are.

For the record, I also think it's ridiculous to send KK to Winnipeg. Guys like that don't get traded, and if they do, it's for other guys like that (not some smorgasbord of ok pieces).

Winnipeg has no reason to trade Laine. If you put together an offer that gives a reason to trade him, we can talk. The problem is that aside from KK, you guys don't have the assets to get the convo started.

At the end of the day, I realize how great you think it would be to acquire a guy like Laine. The thing is, it would hurt the jets for that to happen, so the cost to acquire him on your part has to be equally painful.

 

[Guffman]

I would rather give Laine $10.4M and give up 2-1st, 2nd, 3rd vs give them Suzuki, Juulsen, 1st for Laine at $9M. Also, If Laine won't sign for $9M with the Jets, he won't with the Habs.

Explain to me the logic of offering 8.5M to Aho, who is a better player, but offering $10.5M to Laine?

Obviously, it doesn’t make sense and you’re wasting everyone’s time with this nonsensical proposal.

If MB wanted to throw out those high numbers, he should have done that with Aho, but he didn’t.

 

[lomiller1]

Yes, we would overpay Connor and if you match, you match. Why would the Habs not try? This is within the rules and it's nothing personal. If we were in your situation, I'd be worried about it too cause you want to improve the RD and overpaying for both Laine and Connor hurts your ability to do so

The Habs have 7.4 million to spend while the Jets have 23 million, the Jets can afford to overpay if required but the Habs can’t. The only thing offering to overpay Jets RFA’s would accomplish is to drive up the comparable when their own RFA’s hit the market.

The problem is that offer sheets exist to prevent teams from lowballing RFA’s, not to give other teams access to RFA’s. Trying to get around that by overpaying the player is a loose – loose situation, it hurts both teams, which is why it doesn’t happen. Even if you overpay a player enough that the other team doesn’t match, you are still stuck with an overpaid player.

 

[RationalExpectations]

I'm not taking anything personally. I just tried to show you how ridiculous these proposals are.

For the record, I also think it's ridiculous to send KK to Winnipeg. Guys like that don't get traded, and if they do, it's for other guys like that (not some smorgasbord of ok pieces).

Winnipeg has no reason to trade Laine. If you put together an offer that gives a reason to trade him, we can talk. The problem is that aside from KK, you guys don't have the assets to get the convo started.

At the end of the day, I realize how great you think it would be to acquire a guy like Laine. The thing is, it would hurt the jets for that to happen, so the cost to acquire him on your part has to be equally painful.

I completely agree that trading Laine is not an easy choice (and hell maybe it is not even the right choice for WPG, I just think it will all depend from cap management perspective!), I just thought there is a difference between Scheifele/Wheeler and Laine, the firsts being franchise players, the other one being a very good player (cf. Panarin when traded by CHicago for cap space) and that WPG would consider a trade involving Suzuki as basis.

I am not sure this is the best way for WPG (the best would be to be able to trade Perreault and Kulikov) BUT in the case this would be the roard chosen by management, this is the scenario I would have deemed realistic

 

[tbcwpg]

Not sure a trade will happen, if it does MTL needs to include one of Poehling, Suzuki (I believe the idea is to have Laine playing with KK) and build up on that. I believe WPG would prefer prospects with potential to be ready in a few years rather than picks (esp. if you think Laine will help MTL to contend) but only time will tell.

Winnipeg isn't rebuilding. The best option Winnipeg would explore in trading Laine would be players who can play right now. The closer, the better.

 

[waffledave]

The Habs have 7.4 million to spend while the Jets have 23 million, the Jets can afford to overpay if required but the Habs can’t. The only thing offering to overpay Jets RFA’s would accomplish is to drive up the comparable when their own RFA’s hit the market.

The problem is that offer sheets exist to prevent teams from lowballing RFA’s, not to give other teams access to RFA’s. Trying to get around that by overpaying the player is a loose – loose situation, it hurts both teams, which is why it doesn’t happen. Even if you overpay a player enough that the other team doesn’t match, you are still stuck with an overpaid player.

Habs have 25 players on the roster, Jets only have 15. That $23M is really low considering the contracts they will have to give out.

Anyway I love Laine as a player but he would fail spectacularly here in Montreal, I can see this coming from a mile away. Awful fit. Connor is way more the kind of player that would fit in Montreal.

 

[robertocarlos]

Just call it offer sheet, (OS), like everyone else

But it's OH in the CBA.