Value of: Can anyone fix the Leafs defense without leaving the team worse than it is?

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Jake Gardiner is on the first pair and Alzner is on the third pair?



Never change, Leaf fans, never change.

As someone who typically doesn't like to highlight marginal +/- differences, for all the flack that Gardiner gets, something can be said for the fact that he on top with a 29 +/- when the next player down is 9, on a playoff team. He is a good top pairing D man.

 

[Viqsi]

Other Defenceman I would like to see the leafs go after in the offseason would be:
Dumba
Savard
Montour
Stone-UFA depending on what he looks like on a fairly decent Flames team and what he is looking
Shattenkirk-UFA, only issue is he ask/cap hit

I get that Dumba, Savard and Montour will likely cost some assets but as long as Matthews, Marner and Nylander are off the table I'd be willing to part with our 2017 1st and some players like JVR, Bozak, Komarov or prospects to get it done. Maybe that is unrealistic but with the expansion draft looming and some good young prospects in our pool I think we have a shot at a few on this list.

I can tell you in advance that that won't get it done for Savard. We don't have any decent NHL-ready RHDs behind him and Jones, and we already have a whole heck of a lot of Depth Scoring Forwards.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I can tell you in advance that that won't get it done for Savard. We don't have any decent NHL-ready RHDs behind him and Jones, and we already have a whole heck of a lot of Depth Scoring Forwards.

well Polak tried to change that last night, all part of a grand plan to make Savard expendable for scoring depth

dirty, dirty hit

 

[Viqsi]

well Polak tried to change that last night, all part of a grand plan to make Savard expendable for scoring depth

dirty, dirty hit

In that case someone should have told him that we would opt to do business with another team under those circumstances.

 

[Randy Randerson]

In that case someone should have told him that we would opt to do business with another team under those circumstances.

hopefully Bjorkstrand is alright, looked like he was out after the hit for a few seconds

 

[Ricky Bobby]

What are some realistic trades the Leafs could make this summer that doesn't leave the team worse while addressing the defense. Keep in mind the middle is fine, and they have prospects who can fill in the bottom pairing.

This means they need help at the top, but can that be done? Interested to hear other fans opinions instead of the usual JVR to your team.

Trading JVR or Bozak for a D doesn't necessarily make the team worse if you upgrade the D group in the process. Both JVR and Bozak are suspect defensively so replacing their minutes with someone who's better on the defensive side also improve the team defensively. Both are also UFA's after next year and losing both for nothing to free agency would be huge a set back. But they also aren't guy worth overpaying for.

Anyways everyone dreams about that top pairing guy but upgrading on the #4-6 guys would also be a massive improvement over Hunwick, Polak, etc. and Carrick, Dermott, Nielsen are developing (as are Rielly + Zaitsev).

Even adding a guy like a veteran RD like Paul Martin Or Jason Garrison would help a heck of a lot without costing much to bring in (both of whom should be available and Leafs have plenty of cap space to fit in).

 

[GENERALRYEGUY*]

TO COLORADO
1ST ROUND PICK IN UPCOMING DRAFT
ERIC FEHR
JEREMY BRACCO
Zach Hyman

TO TORONTO
D Erik Johnson
D Patrick Wiercioch
3RD ROUND PICK IN UPCOMING DRAFT

 

[GENERALRYEGUY*]

TO VANCOUVER
2ND ROUND PICK IN UPCOMING DRAFT
JEREMY BRACCO


TO TORONTO
Erik Gudbranson
3 ROUND DRAFT PICK IN UPCOMING DRAFT

 

[Starat327]

TO COLORADO
1ST ROUND PICK IN UPCOMING DRAFT
ERIC FEHR
JEREMY BRACCO
Zach Hyman

TO TORONTO
D Erik Johnson
D Patrick Wiercioch
3RD ROUND PICK IN UPCOMING DRAFT

This looks brutal for Colorado.

Late 1st, some Dumps, and an ok prospect for a Low end #1?

 

[4thline]

to vancouver
2nd round pick in upcoming draft
jeremy bracco


to toronto
erik gudbranson
3 round draft pick in upcoming draft

bleh. Silly capslock auto editor removed by bad humour

 

[The CyNick]

I come at this from a different perspective than most Leafs fans. Most say well we have Rielly in place as a top pair, so we just need a guy to play with him plus a better bottom pair.

I would love it if the Leafs could move Rielly for a less flashy guy who is around the same age, but could handle top pair minutes in his own zone. The problem is I don't think most teams in the league see Morgan as a top pairing guy. I just wonder if a team out there would see Morgan's skillset and think that's a guy who can be a two way D and QB our PP.

Another option as a short term fix would be trading JVR plus for another D that is expiring the same time he is. I'm less of a fan of this, because I think ultimately it just helps you next season, but you likely don't re-sign the D you acquired because he'll be a second pair type looking for first pair term and dollars as a UFA. I'm thinking a Jack Johnson or Cam Fowler type here.

The third option is to just plug some holes short term and continue to develop. I think we have a couple kids that have an outside shot of becoming effective D in the N one day, but I don't think any that will top out as top 2, and even top 4 would be a stretch. You gotta hope in the next year or two, with picks accumulated that you find a diamond in the rough at say pick 22 and he becomes a core piece.

The good news is not like anyone in our division is a perfect team, so we should be able to compete in the short to medium team with the core group we assembled.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Jake Gardiner is on the first pair and Alzner is on the third pair?



Never change, Leaf fans, never change.

There's less than nothing wrong with it. Alzner isn't even good.

 

[Polaris1010]

I think help will come during the expansion draft. Teams like Anaheim may look to move Clayton Stoner (only has a year remaining anyway) for a pick, instead of losing him for nothing. He can play both sides and is a physical defensive dman. Same for Florida and Alex Petrovic. He plays the right side and is a physical defensive dman with good skating ability but plays it safe. Both can probably be traded for much less than a JVR or Bozak during the expansion draft.

The Leafs don't really need a #1 dman. One can be a serious contender with SIX defense who are practically all 2,3,4 types, especially if the minutes are spread evenly.

Reilly (puck mover) Stoner (Physical Stay-at-Home)
Gardner (Puck mover) Petrovic (stay-at-home)
Carrick (puck mover forced to play stay-at-home now) Zaitsev (stay-at-home)

Now, Zaitsev and Carrick are more properly playing as 5-6 guys.

If the team as a whole can play like they did against Chicago and Detroit, THIS defense is better while not trading away pieces than can hurt us later. Not to mention letting Nielsen and Dermott continue to percolate with the Marlies.

Solid post, and suggestions.

I would argue that Zaitsev is the team's #1 defenseman right now. No one saw that coming. Reilly is playing on one leg.

That is the Leafs' reality with the backend, they have no choice. If there is a warm body available, then plug him in.

Polak can still play. Slow but he brings it still every night. Hunwick, it has come to the point where washed-up status cannot be hidden anymore.

Carrick probably will make it as a NHL defenseman.

That brings us to the Leafs' dilemma on the blueline. Zaitsev, Reilly, Gardiner, are good to average second pairing defensemen. They lack that one guy.

That guy used to be Dion Phaneuf. When he played for the Leafs, if Crosby was on the ice, he was on the ice. And who can forget the battles Phaneuf had with Ovechkin of the years. Both would take turns running each other. Phaneuf was not the best Norris candidate, but against Corsby and Ovechkin, he was able to hold his own ground. Then he got run out of town. Team he plays for ahead of the Leafs in the standings, this year and last year.

Like you indicated, Leafs should serious look for stop gap measures, and hope for the best that someone steps up.

To be top banana on defense.

 

[jacks*]

Alright so what are some moves people think are reasonable.

And no reasonable is not one of the big 3 for marginal D.

Than don't expect to get a top D without moving one of your top 3.

 

[REGGIE DUNLOP77]

Than don't expect to get a top D without moving one of your top 3.

Nylander stock has been rising the last couple of weeks,,,Lou will make agood deal

 

[Blender]

TO COLORADO
1ST ROUND PICK IN UPCOMING DRAFT
ERIC FEHR
JEREMY BRACCO
Zach Hyman

TO TORONTO
D Erik Johnson
D Patrick Wiercioch
3RD ROUND PICK IN UPCOMING DRAFT

This is horrible for Colorado.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

This is horrible for Colorado.

Are you really surprised?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

TO COLORADO
1ST ROUND PICK IN UPCOMING DRAFT
ERIC FEHR
JEREMY BRACCO
Zach Hyman

TO TORONTO
D Erik Johnson
D Patrick Wiercioch
3RD ROUND PICK IN UPCOMING DRAFT

Bad for Colorado, Sakic says hell no.

 

[Birko19]

With the rise of Werenski in Columbus, I'm not sure if Seth Jones is expandable or not, but if he is, a package around Nylander for Jones makes sense for the Leafs imo.

 

[major major]

It's hard to say without seeing the real offers. I think obviously you look for a Leddy type guy in a trade, but that's not reliable. Drafting and developing is always smart but not a likely fix within the next five years, which is a big problem because the big 3 are going to be most of the way to their UFA years by then. Rielly was drafted 5th and is not a real top pair guy yet, Schenn was drafted 5th and never made it off the bottom pair. The Werenski type guy who makes an instant impact is exceedingly rare. Planning on the draft fixing this is like saying my plan to cover my debts is to win the lottery.

With the rise of Werenski in Columbus, I'm not sure if Seth Jones is expandable or not, but if he is, a package around Nylander for Jones makes sense for the Leafs imo.

Jones has got Norris written all over him. You could say the Leafs need him more than the Jackets do, but Nylander wouldn't cut it.

 

[Birko19]

Jones has got Norris written all over him. You could say the Leafs need him more than the Jackets do, but Nylander wouldn't cut it.

That's why I said a package around Nylander, though if I were the Jackets I don't think I'll pull the trigger unless it's something ridiculous, because defense wins championships and getting young potential #1 dmen is rare in this league, Columbus has two of those, which is huge for their future.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I don't see Columbus trading Jones at all. Hell, they traded their best young center at the time for Jones when they already had a questionable offense(at the time). You've gotta trade for a Jones before they're established.

 

[Blender]

Are you really surprised?

Of course not.

With the rise of Werenski in Columbus, I'm not sure if Seth Jones is expandable or not, but if he is, a package around Nylander for Jones makes sense for the Leafs imo.

I can't see them moving Jones a year after trading RyJo for him.

 

[REGGIE DUNLOP77]

It's hard to say without seeing the real offers. I think obviously you look for a Leddy type guy in a trade, but that's not reliable. Drafting and developing is always smart but not a likely fix within the next five years, which is a big problem because the big 3 are going to be most of the way to their UFA years by then. Rielly was drafted 5th and is not a real top pair guy yet, Schenn was drafted 5th and never made it off the bottom pair. The Werenski type guy who makes an instant impact is exceedingly rare. Planning on the draft fixing this is like saying my plan to cover my debts is to win the lottery.

Exacly,your post should be at the top of every leafs page

With the rise of Werenski in Columbus, I'm not sure if Seth Jones is expandable or not, but if he is, a package around Nylander for Jones makes sense for the Leafs imo.

Jones would be nice

 

[stator]

Why the Leafs would trade Polak to the Sharks, and then want him back in the offseason is beyond me. Polak is a dime-a-dozen dman in the NHL.

Taking Dillon would be nice as well. Goes well with Polak. Those two are great book-ends.