Value of: Can anyone fix the Leafs defense without leaving the team worse than it is?
- Thread starter Kamiccolo
- Start date
The Macho King
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Well - you need a true #1 Dman, or a guy that can play at least the shutdown role on a top pair. True #1s aren't moving. So your best bet would be to get an Andy Greene-type.
Kamiccolo
Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.
Alright so what are some moves people think are reasonable.
And no reasonable is not one of the big 3 for marginal D.
Took Hall to get Larsson. Go from there.
Edit: If you don't want to move anyone, best bet is to make a Boychuk/Leddy type deal like the Isles did a few years ago. Which means taking a chance on some potentially under appreciated players. So would require getting a bit lucky.
Rex Banner
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A1LeafNation
Good, is simply not good enough!
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Leafs don't need a true #1 d-man. A guy like Alzner will do just fine with us.
Gardiner Zaitsev
Rielly Marchenko
Alzner Carrick
Marincin Dermott
Nielsen
Gardiner Zaitsev
Rielly Marchenko
Alzner Carrick
Marincin Dermott
Nielsen
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
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If you start a thread on here that says "Hall for Larsson straight up" last offseason, it gets shut down for trolling. And Larsson was not a proven #1 by any stretch (although certainly had upside).
You either find the guy as an FA (and pay through the nose and hope they aren't Matt Carle), or you pay up. Or you hope Don Sweeney is in a giving mood.
DuckEatinShark
GET ALL THE PPs!!!!
As much as Brendan Dillon has improved his play, I would move him for a low 1st or high 2nd rounder + prospect just so we can begin clearing cap space for Vlasic/Jones' raises after next year. He's been playing at a top 4D level this year with Schlemko/Demelo. Of course he's not a top-pairing guy, but rarely are top-pairing guys available.
I would do this especially if we win the Cup this year and no longer have our 2017 1st (Hansen trade). Mueller needs some NHL playing time.
I will say this though: if you do get Dillon, do NOT pair him with Polak. Trust us Sharks fans on this one.
I would do this especially if we win the Cup this year and no longer have our 2017 1st (Hansen trade). Mueller needs some NHL playing time.
I will say this though: if you do get Dillon, do NOT pair him with Polak. Trust us Sharks fans on this one.
Leafs will be fine.
Here are the teams that the Leafs are within 0.15 GA/GP: Nashville, Tampa, Pittsburgh. Would you say any of those teams are terrible defensively?
They can't sacrifice offense for defense. Just be patient, if they can challenge for playoffs after finishing 30th, they are very close to being a contender. Experience for the rookies, more time played in the system and one guy similar to Zaitsev/Gardiner will be more than adequate.
Pittsburgh is a Cup favourite in everyone's mind and they allow 2.75 GA/G...Hint: they weren't desperate for more D, they went after Kessel. Why? Because offense is just as important to win the Cup than defense.
Even the LA kings that won the cup in 2012, won because their offense lit up in the playoffs after being **** in the regular season. You need a top 10-15D to make the playoffs, but after that, things get tight anyways so you need good offense.
Here are the teams that the Leafs are within 0.15 GA/GP: Nashville, Tampa, Pittsburgh. Would you say any of those teams are terrible defensively?
They can't sacrifice offense for defense. Just be patient, if they can challenge for playoffs after finishing 30th, they are very close to being a contender. Experience for the rookies, more time played in the system and one guy similar to Zaitsev/Gardiner will be more than adequate.
Pittsburgh is a Cup favourite in everyone's mind and they allow 2.75 GA/G...Hint: they weren't desperate for more D, they went after Kessel. Why? Because offense is just as important to win the Cup than defense.
Even the LA kings that won the cup in 2012, won because their offense lit up in the playoffs after being **** in the regular season. You need a top 10-15D to make the playoffs, but after that, things get tight anyways so you need good offense.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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I think Alzner is going to get paid a lot of money, at least enough where you won't want him on the 3rd pairing.
HockeyThoughts
Delivering The Truth
Karl Alzner would not be on the 3rd pairing if we acquired him through FA.
Considering that:
(1) Alzner will likely command 5M-6M on a long-term deal
(2) Is 3rd in ice time on the top team in the East
(3) Would easily be our top defensive defenseman
Alzner will almost certainly play on our top pairing.
for sure, habs picked up jordie benn for pataryn and 4th...leafs can find these types of D as upgrades...something more elite? well everyone is asking habs for sergachev (best prospect) for top line F...
expect to pay one of your big 3 for a top 2 Dman
expect to pay one of your big 3 for a top 2 Dman
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
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Yeah Alzner is going to at least clear 6m. And his contract is going to start looking bad pretty damn quickly. Career possession numbers are trash and he just doesn't put up points. 19 goals in over 500 NHL games? I mean - I get he's a defensive Dman, but damn.
Next Dan Girardi.
What defines worse? The Leafs are among the top teams for goals for and are in the bottom half for goals against.
If you can get a top 2 defenseman for a package that inevitably included Nylander +, they'd be an overall better team. You're dealing from a position of strength and addressing an area of need. You'll score a few less goals but win a few more games.
If you can get a top 2 defenseman for a package that inevitably included Nylander +, they'd be an overall better team. You're dealing from a position of strength and addressing an area of need. You'll score a few less goals but win a few more games.
Kent Nilsson
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91Fedorov
John (Gibson) 3:16
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The problem is that you cannot get a top pairing D via trade without making your team worse than it is. That's what a trade is about. To get valuable assets, you need to give valuable assets.
That being said, I don't think the leafs need to worry. Their core is young and growing. There is no need to make a move now. They need to sign a good UFA D man that will help be an example of what it takes to play NHL caliber defense. Then start prioritizing D in the draft. Then just let the D grow into your forward corps.
There isn't a quick fix. If there was every team would do it.
That being said, I don't think the leafs need to worry. Their core is young and growing. There is no need to make a move now. They need to sign a good UFA D man that will help be an example of what it takes to play NHL caliber defense. Then start prioritizing D in the draft. Then just let the D grow into your forward corps.
There isn't a quick fix. If there was every team would do it.
What team in recent years has good defense without drafting the majority of their pieces?
Overpaying Alzner would probably be a smart move though.
Overpaying Alzner would probably be a smart move though.
You could get Carlson from the caps for a strategic package since they're facing a cap crunch and he's a UFA in a year and they have a solid RD lineup without him.
Something like Orpik + Carlson for Zaitsev (cheap ED exempt placeholder) and other stuff.
Something like Orpik + Carlson for Zaitsev (cheap ED exempt placeholder) and other stuff.
Blender
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If you're not going to give up a prime asset young forward, your best bet is to target moves like the Boychuk and Leddy trades, or go after young underachieving defensemen who you hope will turn out better. No one is trading you a true top pairing defenseman for magic beans or spare parts.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
To aquire top-pairing defencemen via trades will cost a lot, unless you get someone who has started to regress, at which case it will only be a temporary solution anyway.
Via free agency you'll usually have to offer him a salary at least 20% over the players real value.
In either case, getting top-2 D:s will cost a lot, either through money or prospects/young players/draft picks.
If I were Toronto, I would give up the upcoming two first rounders (2017 & 2018) + the forward prospects needed to land a top-2 Dman under the age of 27, preferbly right-handed.
Those 1st rounders will probably be around 25th anyway, especially if you add that important piece at the back-end.
Or you offer less for a 30+ player, as a stop-gap.
Ideas.
1st 2017, 1st 2018, Nielsen & Kapanen.
For.
Justin Faulk.
---------------------------------------
Or go for the stop-gap and if Edler is willing to waive. Should come pretty cheap from Vancouver who is rebuilding.
Via free agency you'll usually have to offer him a salary at least 20% over the players real value.
In either case, getting top-2 D:s will cost a lot, either through money or prospects/young players/draft picks.
If I were Toronto, I would give up the upcoming two first rounders (2017 & 2018) + the forward prospects needed to land a top-2 Dman under the age of 27, preferbly right-handed.
Those 1st rounders will probably be around 25th anyway, especially if you add that important piece at the back-end.
Or you offer less for a 30+ player, as a stop-gap.
Ideas.
1st 2017, 1st 2018, Nielsen & Kapanen.
For.
Justin Faulk.
---------------------------------------
Or go for the stop-gap and if Edler is willing to waive. Should come pretty cheap from Vancouver who is rebuilding.
Mobiandi
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