Player Discussion Cam Talbot

[Bryanbryoil]

Bad game from him tonight, it happens. Start Nilsson as he should be hungry to get back into the net and spell Talbot a game or two.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

How can anyone call him awful in the LA, Minnesota, and Montreal games?

Cause people just read numbers and not see how the games were. Teams scoring a few quick super high quality hard to impossible to save goals and taking the foot off the pedal makes any goalies numbers bad.

 

[Gambl0r83*]

Should've been pulled after the first, not his night.
Would've shot a bit of energy into the guys as well

Still has to find that #1 starter consistency

He'll rebound vs Pittsburgh, but our defense wont
What a shame

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Talbot's save % is Scrivens-esq and so is his puck handling skills

may be time to see if Nilsson can run with the job for a bit...

but in reality, it doesn't matter if we had Dominick Hasek and Patrick Roy in the net, this defense turns decent goalies into hot garbage

 

[Husker Du]

Talbot has not played well since the first couple of games. He is letting in a very poor goal every night and we are not good enough to win if our goalie lets in any bad goals.

 

[Replacement*]

Bad game from him tonight, it happens. Start Nilsson as he should be hungry to get back into the net and spell Talbot a game or two.

Do you see whats starting to happen though?

The Oilers team have once again been reliant on getting great goaltending and Talbot had delivered that for several games. But instead of this resulting in better results for the team they play multiple poor games like Washinton, Minny, Montreal game, and then Calgary game.

My take is something happened in the Montreal game and I will note Talbot was upset with the play of the team in that game. McLelland was as well. Yet we have players like Ference and Pouliot saying the team played great in Montreal game and "this is how we have to play"

Talbot is a competitive individual. But frankly I don't know his reaction on an ongoing basis if he sees the team playing like **** in front of him. We know what this did last year to Fasth who just had a meltdown. I'm wondering how Talbot is taking this. He seemed off last night already. Perhaps due to being upset.

The trouble with this team as usual is it isn't a team and they really aren't playing for each other.

We already have Purcell being once again completely useless, Fayne HS for being a passenger, Sekera, Lander playing awful, and not everybody rowing.

How long is a goalie, any goalie, gonna work harder than the rest of the team in front of him?

This is a much different situation for Talbot than it was for the NY Rangers a team that played honest hockey in front of him.

Everbybody blaming Talbot for the loss last night. Up to the closing minutes he had kept the team in it despite mishandling the puck badly. he was responsible for the GA but also robbed the Flames on several occasions. he lets in a stinker at the end but playing against the Flames on a back to back I would expect the game to already be won at that point. Instead it was a 4-4 game and a backbreaker.

If the Oil had been up 7-4 nobody is even talking about it.

There was no reason last night for the Oilers to not win this game in a cakewalk. We let Calgary into the game, we let them gain some faith. Why do we do that?

 

[Replacement*]

His last 5 games save percentage

CAL- .844
MTL- .857
MIN- 857
LAK - .912
WSH - .889

Even if you give him a pass for the Washington game in relief (only 9 shots against), he's been awful the last 5 games. I mean it is only 10 games, but I am starting to worry.

Stats stated in isolation of circumstance.

More indicative is the team continues to give up 5 bell scoring chances on a regular basis and are having trouble around net against teams that will go to the well. Canadiens particularly were playing against a subpar Oilers effort in first 2 periods. The Save % in that game is subject to score effects because the Habs just stopped playing after getting 3-0 lead.

Minny game the Oilers got outworked much of the night and gave up quality chances. Caps are scoring a lot of goals period against everybody.

Last night against Calgary our overall game was weak and full of turnovers. We were not respecting puck possession. We were not playing anything remotely resembling how the team is being coached to play.

 

[Husker Du]

Do you see whats starting to happen though?

The Oilers team have once again been reliant on getting great goaltending and Talbot had delivered that for several games. But instead of this resulting in better results for the team they play multiple poor games like Washinton, Minny, Montreal game, and then Calgary game.

My take is something happened in the Montreal game and I will note Talbot was upset with the play of the team in that game. McLelland was as well. Yet we have players like Ference and Pouliot saying the team played great in Montreal game and "this is how we have to play"

Talbot is a competitive individual. But frankly I don't know his reaction on an ongoing basis if he sees the team playing like **** in front of him. We know what this did last year to Fasth who just had a meltdown. I'm wondering how Talbot is taking this. He seemed off last night already. Perhaps due to being upset.

The trouble with this team as usual is it isn't a team and they really aren't playing for each other.

We already have Purcell being once again completely useless, Fayne HS for being a passenger, Sekera, Lander playing awful, and not everybody rowing.

How long is a goalie, any goalie, gonna work harder than the rest of the team in front of him?

This is a much different situation for Talbot than it was for the NY Rangers a team that played honest hockey in front of him.

Everbybody blaming Talbot for the loss last night. Up to the closing minutes he had kept the team in it despite mishandling the puck badly. he was responsible for the GA but also robbed the Flames on several occasions. he lets in a stinker at the end but playing against the Flames on a back to back I would expect the game to already be won at that point. Instead it was a 4-4 game and a backbreaker.

If the Oil had been up 7-4 nobody is even talking about it.

There was no reason last night for the Oilers to not win this game in a cakewalk. We let Calgary into the game, we let them gain some faith. Why do we do that?

I don't disagree with anything you wrote. However a team is made up of 23 players including the goalie and all the players need to be better. If Talbot is frustrated with the play in front of him and letting it affect his performance then this is a very bad sign for his long term future here. We need players that instead of looking around and assigning blame they take a leadership role and drag the team with them. Also, I would point out that Talbot is playing for a starting goalie contract and if he can't handle the adversity of playing behind a poor defensive team his next contract is going to be a lot smaller than he might have expected.

 

[Replacement*]

I don't disagree with anything you wrote. However a team is made up of 23 players including the goalie and all the players need to be better. If Talbot is frustrated with the play in front of him and letting it affect his performance then this is a very bad sign for his long term future here. We need players that instead of looking around and assigning blame they take a leadership role and drag the team with them. Also, I would point out that Talbot is playing for a starting goalie contract and if he can't handle the adversity of playing behind a poor defensive team his next contract is going to be a lot smaller than he might have expected.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying in your posts.

But people are human and can discern when they are in a bad situation. Doesn't take long either.

What I'm stating is that the play of this team is indifferent, that it has been that for a longtime, and that it doesn't appear to have changed (its early) But Talbots play has been heroic in several games and yet here he is being questioned after 1 bad game.
Where I disagree with you is that any goalie would do well in this current environment. Even Quick would play poorly on this club. Because ultimately he would feel cheated by it.

Hockey is a team game and if the guys left and right of you are not bringing it it does start to impact others performance.

I don't think either that anything prepares a goalie for how bad this teams own zone coveraged and adherence to system play is. On some nights its a gongshow. That's going to impact goalies, any goalie, significantly.

Look up what happens in Learned helplessness paradigm. That's essentially what happens to goalies in this org. Because it doesn't matter ultimately what they do, they end up with bad stats and losses.

 

[birchy]

Talbot did his best Scrivens impersonation last night for sure.. but that being said, I still feel he's night and day better than anything we've had for quite a few years now. He makes those clutch saves pretty much every game that we're almost always guaranteed goals in years past. Even the best goalies have off nights.. Talbot will be fine IMO.

 

[Husker Du]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying in your posts.

But people are human and can discern when they are in a bad situation. Doesn't take long either.

What I'm stating is that the play of this team is indifferent, that it has been that for a longtime, and that it doesn't appear to have changed (its early) But Talbots play has been heroic in several games and yet here he is being questioned after 1 bad game.
Where I disagree with you is that any goalie would do well in this current environment. Even Quick would play poorly on this club. Because ultimately he would feel cheated by it.

Hockey is a team game and if the guys left and right of you are not bringing it it does start to impact others performance.

I don't think either that anything prepares a goalie for how bad this teams own zone coveraged and adherence to system play is. On some nights its a gongshow. That's going to impact goalies, any goalie, significantly.

Look up what happens in Learned helplessness paradigm. That's essentially what happens to goalies in this org. Because it doesn't matter ultimately what they do, they end up with bad stats and losses.

This may surprise, but I believe that based on his path to the NHL that Talbot is mentally stronger than I think you are suggesting. I can't fathom the thought that he is already mentally defeated by the ineptness of our defense. If it is true, however, then he will never have the mental makeup to be a quality starting NHL goalie.

As an aside I will point out that the goalies in Buffalo (before the trade deadline tank job) had very respectable save percentages behind one of the worst defenses in NHL history.

 

[Soundwave]

His next 4-5 starts will tell us a lot IMO. We need a strong November from our goalies.

 

[Replacement*]

This may surprise, but I believe that based on his path to the NHL that Talbot is mentally stronger than I think you are suggesting. I can't fathom the thought that he is already mentally defeated by the ineptness of our defense. If it is true, however, then he will never have the mental makeup to be a quality starting NHL goalie.

As an aside I will point out that the goalies in Buffalo (before the trade deadline tank job) had very respectable save percentages behind one of the worst defenses in NHL history.

I'm not saying he's mentally defeated I am saying the dynamic is that bad team play impacts goalies, any goalie, eventually. By no means am I saying Talbot is folded. I'm just saying we're seeing the same troublesome signs of the Oilers letting goalies hang out to dry which shouldn't be tolerated by coaching or management. Or even by the players if they had any real leadership on this club.

All I'm saying in regards to Talbot is that bad play in front of you is a huge distraction for goalies as it can get in their head that they have to be perfect at all times. That becomes its own path to difficulty in trying to do too much. I'm just seeing some signs already.

 

[Replacement*]

His next 4-5 starts will tell us a lot IMO. We need a strong November from our goalies.

The reality is it won't even matter. A team that can't win games like last night is already done. The season is done.

Theres very few opponents this club is capable of beating on a consistent basis. Calgary should be one of them. Theres several teams in the league that will steal our lunch money on a consistent basis.

Its November 1st and we're already at next year land, again.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I'm not saying he's mentally defeated I am saying the dynamic is that bad team play impacts goalies, any goalie, eventually. By no means am I saying Talbot is folded. I'm just saying we're seeing the same troublesome signs of the Oilers letting goalies hang out to dry which shouldn't be tolerated by coaching or management. Or even by the players if they had any real leadership on this club.

All I'm saying in regards to Talbot is that bad play in front of you is a huge distraction for goalies as it can get in their head that they have to be perfect at all times. That becomes its own path to difficulty in trying to do too much. I'm just seeing some signs already.

All goalies have bad nights. Price wasn't really good against us for example.

However playing against the Oilers any off night you have makes you look like the worst goalie in the world.

 

[Replacement*]

All goalies have bad nights. Price wasn't really good against us for example.

However playing against the Oilers any off night you have makes you look like the worst goalie in the world.

It now turns out that Price is injured and with a lower body injury. Remember people were pointing out in the Oiler game he had trouble moving across? He hasn't played since and injury has now been made official.

Again that W against Montreal was a large illusion. Also assisted by Price being hurt.

 

[La Bamba]

Talbot's save % is Scrivens-esq and so is his puck handling skills

may be time to see if Nilsson can run with the job for a bit...

but in reality, it doesn't matter if we had Dominick Hasek and Patrick Roy in the net, this defense turns decent goalies into hot garbage

Talbot is going to be Scrivens 2.0. So many similarities.

 

[Husker Du]

I'm not saying he's mentally defeated I am saying the dynamic is that bad team play impacts goalies, any goalie, eventually. By no means am I saying Talbot is folded. I'm just saying we're seeing the same troublesome signs of the Oilers letting goalies hang out to dry which shouldn't be tolerated by coaching or management. Or even by the players if they had any real leadership on this club.

All I'm saying in regards to Talbot is that bad play in front of you is a huge distraction for goalies as it can get in their head that they have to be perfect at all times. That becomes its own path to difficulty in trying to do too much. I'm just seeing some signs already.

Well said. I think you are 100% correct.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

It now turns out that Price is injured and with a lower body injury. Remember people were pointing out in the Oiler game he had trouble moving across? He hasn't played since and injury has now been made official.

Again that W against Montreal was a large illusion. Also assisted by Price being hurt.

I wouldn't call it a large illusion. An illusion that we were good.

What this game and the Calgary game prove is we have the offensive fire power to come back into games if you let us. Which you shouldnt let us.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I also think that last goal was an unfocused Talbot as he thought it was going to be icing so he let his guard down and all of a sudden the puck is still in play and he flounders.

Not saying for sure if it was icing or not but you could tell Talbot thought it was going to be

 

[Replacement*]

I wouldn't call it a large illusion. An illusion that we were good.

What this game and the Calgary game prove is we have the offensive fire power to come back into games if you let us. Which you shouldnt let us.

What the Montreal and Calgary games actually show us is that this clubs compete level, and intent to dictate terms of play in games on home ice is horrid.

A team like the Oilers playing to its strengths would establish in games from the outset and dictate what play would decide the outcomes of the games. We are not doing that in any way, We are not defending home ice in any way. We just played two teams that were primed to lose. As it turns out Price was playing injured in the game. Which was suspected in the game. We won that game because Price wasn't healthy and gave up goals he typically wouldn't. We played a Habs team that are used to the game being over when its 3-0. They took it for granted.

We can have as much firepower in the NHL but it isn't doing much if we don't stop the GA hemorrhaging

 

[Replacement*]

I also think that last goal was an unfocused Talbot as he thought it was going to be icing so he let his guard down and all of a sudden the puck is still in play and he flounders.

Not saying for sure if it was icing or not but you could tell Talbot thought it was going to be

With the exception that Frolik had recognized something. It was the 4time in the game he had tried shooting the puck at the net from a bad angle. Including preseason it is the 3rd time Talbot has allowed a bad angle shot to sneak in short side.

One of the problems is Talbot does not seal the post well and cheats off the post a lot because he knows this club gives up passes across for fun. You can't cover everything.

Heres a question. Why do the Oilers even allow Frolik to have the puck there, or to shoot the puck from there.

The Oilers were clearly outhustled to that puck. Why? unfortunately one of the players standing watching was McDavid. He had a bad game as well. Understandable, kid has had so much pressure here to perform like Superman.

 

[CupofOil]

The organization needs to start protecting their goalies, it's as simple as that.

You can't expect a goalie, unless he's elite, to carry the team night after night. Improve the defense and Talbot will be a lot better for it. I'm not giving up on him after a few poor starts but unfortunately, it seems like so many of you want to scapegoat the goaltending again without looking at the real culprit, the defense.

fwiw, I'm not excusing last nights' performance and it was good to see Talbot owning up to his mistakes (which hasn't been the case with past goalies here) but Chia really needs to get this guy some help before his confidence is completely shaken to the point of no return.
I still really like Talbot and feel like he could be The Guy long term if insulated properly.

 

[Replacement*]

The organization needs to start protecting their goalies, it's as simple as that.

You can't expect a goalie, unless he's elite, to carry the team night after night. Improve the defense and Talbot will be a lot better for it. I'm not giving up on him after a few poor starts but unfortunately, it seems like so many of you want to scapegoat the goaltending again without looking at the real culprit, the defense.

fwiw, I'm not excusing last nights' performance and it was good to see Talbot owning up to his mistakes (which hasn't been the case with past goalies here) but Chia really needs to get this guy some help before his confidence is completely shaken to the point of no return.
I still really like Talbot and feel like he could be The Guy long term if insulated properly.

Absolutely spot on.

With the only addition that not only D, but team application to D and system play is at fault here. The Oilers played a monumentally stupid game last night. The type of game we are quite faimilar with and that looks uncoached. Because quite clearly the Oilers gave limited adherence to any coaching plan which flew out the window by the 3rd shift.

This is really concerning. Because we played very poorly in the last two games. Really if one looks at it we played poolly against Washington and Minny as well.

Is this team once again giving up? Or ignoring system play.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Might as well trade him. We've already ruined him.