Confirmed Trade: [BOS/BUF] Taylor Hall (50%) and Curtis Lazar for Anders Bjork and 2021 2nd round pick

Snippit

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Dec 5, 2012
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In the first 5-6 games in Buffalo I thought Hall was by far our best player. Then his performances slowly started deteriorating (along with the rest of the team) and by the end he was dogging it and was actively a detriment. But it was clear to me that he still had game, just lost motivation.
 

wintersej

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In the first 5-6 games in Buffalo I thought Hall was by far our best player. Then his performances slowly started deteriorating (along with the rest of the team) and by the end he was dogging it and was actively a detriment. But it was clear to me that he still had game, just lost motivation.

I want to be high and mighty about guys on bad teams giving a shit effort, but... I get it.
 

PAZ

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Jul 14, 2011
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Side note, I thought that was a dumb idea to take those kinds of conditional picks away

The players advocated to remove it because even if there was mutual interest on both sides, the team wouldn't want to pay the additional pick to re-sign the player.

I can understand why the players hated it, and ultimately I think it could've worked if it was a minor pick (i.e. a 5th-7th round, rather than changing a 2nd/3rd to a 1st).
 

HogtownSabresfan

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Jan 13, 2010
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Hall limited them to only one team in this case, so hard to blame the Sabres too much.

And I'd take Bjork on the Sabres now vs. the Hall that played for the Sabres.

This take continues to ignore the reality that while could block any trade, the Sabres also were under zero obligation to trade him. And he needed to be traded to re-establish his value which he is sort of done now. (I do question who will ever give me a long-term deal.) Once again bad negotiators. You think the league doesn't notice this. Sabres blinked. Now they are trading Eichel with an entire league knowing they can be bluffed. That second round pick is worth nothing compared to a bad reputation in trades.
 

itwasaforwardpass

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Mar 4, 2017
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This take continues to ignore the reality that while could block any trade, the Sabres also were under zero obligation to trade him. And he needed to be traded to re-establish his value which he is sort of done now. (I do question who will ever give me a long-term deal.) Once again bad negotiators. You think the league doesn't notice this. Sabres blinked. Now they are trading Eichel with an entire league knowing they can be bluffed. That second round pick is worth nothing compared to a bad reputation in trades.

The bad negotiating was giving Hall a NMC in the first place.
 

Djp

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Jul 28, 2012
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The players advocated to remove it because even if there was mutual interest on both sides, the team wouldn't want to pay the additional pick to re-sign the player.

I can understand why the players hated it, and ultimately I think it could've worked if it was a minor pick (i.e. a 5th-7th round, rather than changing a 2nd/3rd to a 1st).

baseball made a similar rule change a few years ago in their CBA.

before teams losing UFAs got draft pick comps event for deadline UFA to be rentals which factored into deadline compensation.

n new deal , a team had to acquire a UFA to be the off season before their final season or earlier to get the comp picks. In season trades of UFAs to be Lise comp picks if they sign elsewhere.

The baseball comp picks are similar to conditional comp if player walk.
 

HogtownSabresfan

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Jan 13, 2010
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The bad negotiating was giving Hall a NMC in the first place.

That can be true too. But the general thinking is Sabres had ZERO options at the deadline. And that's just laughable. Try and and tell me how Taylor Hall desperately didn't need a deal too to get out of Buffalo going into a UFA year. All the Sabres had to do was push back a bit. They never do. It's been show time and time again they are pushovers. Nobody is going to be happy with Eichel deal. It's a given. You've got people in charge who cannot and will not negotiate. Pegula must have sucker written on his forehead.
 
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BowieSabresFan

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Nov 18, 2010
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This take continues to ignore the reality that while could block any trade, the Sabres also were under zero obligation to trade him. And he needed to be traded to re-establish his value which he is sort of done now. (I do question who will ever give me a long-term deal.) Once again bad negotiators. You think the league doesn't notice this. Sabres blinked. Now they are trading Eichel with an entire league knowing they can be bluffed. That second round pick is worth nothing compared to a bad reputation in trades.

Yeah, no. Your scenario quite possibly has the Sabres getting nothing for Hall. I understand the bias and frustration against Sabres management, but you're being a tad silly here.

Also, attempting to strong arm players isn't a good strategy for luring future free agents.
 

Panthaz89

Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
Dec 24, 2016
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This take continues to ignore the reality that while could block any trade, the Sabres also were under zero obligation to trade him. And he needed to be traded to re-establish his value which he is sort of done now. (I do question who will ever give me a long-term deal.) Once again bad negotiators. You think the league doesn't notice this. Sabres blinked. Now they are trading Eichel with an entire league knowing they can be bluffed. That second round pick is worth nothing compared to a bad reputation in trades.
Eichel has several years Hall had like 10 games left to play on his contract.....there is a massive difference when we knew Hall wasn't coming back to the Sabres after this season. There is no reason to play hardball when all it does is leave with nothing coming back. The main fault here is not convincing Boston to improve the pick based on conditions though it'd prob be like them making the finals anyway.
 

StreetHawk

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Sep 30, 2017
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The players advocated to remove it because even if there was mutual interest on both sides, the team wouldn't want to pay the additional pick to re-sign the player.

I can understand why the players hated it, and ultimately I think it could've worked if it was a minor pick (i.e. a 5th-7th round, rather than changing a 2nd/3rd to a 1st).
conditional picks should be performance based, either on the player or team success.

Those are still applicable I believe. So, if Boston made it to the final 4, then a draft pick could be either added or bumped up a round or 2 for example.
 

CrosbyMalkin

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Aug 7, 2005
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Sabres did okay for what Hall was doing at that time. Hall only had 2 goals all season before that trade. Not many teams are going to line up to give a 1st round pick for a rental with that production. If you are giving a 1st round pick for a rental you want to make sure he is playing well like when the Pens traded for Hossa. 2nd round pick is all he was worth as a rental that was not that productive.

Pens gave up a 3rd and 4th for Carter and his cap hit was less and his production was better and he is not a rental. Pens get 2 playoffs with Carter and he has given us the same boost as Hall. Both deals worked out but both deals had to wait and see if those players could get back to form on a Cup contender. Hopefully the Pens end up giving up more for Carter than Hall because if we make it to the Cup Finals we give up a 2nd and 3rd instead of the 3rd and 4th round picks. With 12 goals in his first 17 games with the Pens he would be well worth that and more.

So I think people are too hard on what the Sabres got for Hall. I know I would of been seriously upset if my team gave a 1st round pick for Hall as a rental. Glad he turned up his game but personally I hate giving up 1st round picks for any rental. I rather get players that are young and with term like Rutherford did with Kapanen this summer. That cost a 1st and a marginal prospect in Hallander. All take the 24 year old for several years than a rental that had 2 goals before the deal. Really don't think a team was willing to give a 1st.
 

StreetHawk

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Hall wasn't a home grown guy to get upset about. If that was Sam Bennett, that's another story. Hall was in essence a mercenary for 1 year.
 

Mr Positive

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Nov 20, 2013
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The players advocated to remove it because even if there was mutual interest on both sides, the team wouldn't want to pay the additional pick to re-sign the player.

I can understand why the players hated it, and ultimately I think it could've worked if it was a minor pick (i.e. a 5th-7th round, rather than changing a 2nd/3rd to a 1st).
Has a team ever not kept a player because of a conditional pick? I can see a player attached to a conditional pick not liking it, but in the big picture I feel it is a huge benefit to players, to help them get traded to a place they are more needed.

Although maybe they would prefer the sign and trade model, where all sides hash out a deal and the player ends up where they want to be for sure. But that's not so realistic imo. In the end, the conditional pick route is the smoothest
 

CrosbyMalkin

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Hall wasn't a home grown guy to get upset about. If that was Sam Bennett, that's another story. Hall was in essence a mercenary for 1 year.

Rent him and then trade him. It is like getting a 2nd round pick for free. Honestly not bad and again with only 2 goals and being a rental who really would want to give a 1st round pick? Even at his production now I personally wouldn't want to give up a 1st. It is only worth it if you win the Cup when you trade a 1st for a rental. If you don't win the Cup you now have no 1st round pick and nothing to show for it. I rather trade my 1st for young players like Kapanen 24 with term than a rental.

Pens deal is a no risk deal. Only a 3rd and 4th round pick unless we reach the Finals. If we make the Finals all take my chances to win it all for a 2nd and 3rd. Carter has 12 goals since his first game April 15th and no player in the NHL has more than him during that time. Since we have him next year for half his cap hit and we get 2 playoff runs with him. That is more palatable than a 1st for a rental and one shot.
 
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PAZ

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Has a team ever not kept a player because of a conditional pick? I can see a player attached to a conditional pick not liking it, but in the big picture I feel it is a huge benefit to players, to help them get traded to a place they are more needed.

Although maybe they would prefer the sign and trade model, where all sides hash out a deal and the player ends up where they want to be for sure. But that's not so realistic imo. In the end, the conditional pick route is the smoothest

Zuccarello with the Stars is the first one that came to mind. Pretty sure there were a few others, but can't think of them off the top of my head.
 

HogtownSabresfan

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Eichel has several years Hall had like 10 games left to play on his contract.....there is a massive difference when we knew Hall wasn't coming back to the Sabres after this season. There is no reason to play hardball when all it does is leave with nothing coming back. The main fault here is not convincing Boston to improve the pick based on conditions though it'd prob be like them making the finals anyway.

This is the attitude on every Sabres deal. They do the nice guy routine so often they've become suckers. Kings of minimizing value, paying maximum.
 
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mouser

Business of Hockey
Jul 13, 2006
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Has a team ever not kept a player because of a conditional pick? I can see a player attached to a conditional pick not liking it, but in the big picture I feel it is a huge benefit to players, to help them get traded to a place they are more needed.

Although maybe they would prefer the sign and trade model, where all sides hash out a deal and the player ends up where they want to be for sure. But that's not so realistic imo. In the end, the conditional pick route is the smoothest

There was another angle that it was unfair to a player traded with a penalty pick clause if traded again. E.g. Erik Karlsson from Ottawa to San Jose included a clause that San Jose had to give up a 1st pick if Karlsson ended up on an Eastern Conference team before the end of the season.

Ottawa wanted Karlsson out of the East, but it was really unfair to him personally to include that clause. Say things didn’t work out in San Jose and Karlsson demanded to be traded then San Jose is hamstringed to only moving him to less then half the NHL teams.

I think the change to remove all these conditional picks was healthy for the players. Once a team trades a player they should forfeit all influence over where a player is next traded to or what team signs him to his next contract (including the team they traded the player to).

These changes will balance out in trade returns going forward as we’re already seeing,
 

Treb

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May 31, 2011
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I mean ya we got a 2nd round pick, but I also thought Bjork was pretty good. He was on the top line to end the year.

Even then, he was on pace for 30-ish points (way better than last 2 seasons where he was 10-20 points but...). Unless he has an epiphany, he's a pretty basic bottom 6 guy.
 

HogtownSabresfan

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Jan 13, 2010
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Yeah, no. Your scenario quite possibly has the Sabres getting nothing for Hall. I understand the bias and frustration against Sabres management, but you're being a tad silly here.

Also, attempting to strong arm players isn't a good strategy for luring future free agents.

Actually not silly at all. Negotiating is going right to the edge and comes with risk you get nothing. Imagine playing poker and falling for every bluff. That's Buffalo. I'm sure you are going to win a ton of hands just waiting for cards to fall to you.

The Sabres are now getting a pick that is even top 50. Their reputation remains that of patsies. Sure, they had nothing to lose caving on Hall. Keep telling yourself that when they flub Eichel deal too.

This management (including Pegulas) are so out of their depth against other NHL GMs and agents.
 

HogtownSabresfan

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Jan 13, 2010
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I mean ya we got a 2nd round pick, but I also thought Bjork was pretty good. He was on the top line to end the year.

People actually believe the bunk put out by Sabres. The Bruins WON the Lazar for Bjork part fo deal, no contest. One guy makes half of what the other guy makes who is locked in for an extra years at $1.6 M in a flat cap world. Who asked for this part of deal? NOT THE SABRES. The Bruins. So really, the Sabres didn't get a 2nd, they got less than a second because you have to subtract cap trade in deal.
 

BowieSabresFan

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Actually not silly at all. Negotiating is going right to the edge and comes with risk you get nothing. Imagine playing poker and falling for every bluff. That's Buffalo. I'm sure you are going to win a ton of hands just waiting for cards to fall to you.

The Sabres are now getting a pick that is even top 50. Their reputation remains that of patsies. Sure, they had nothing to lose caving on Hall. Keep telling yourself that when they flub Eichel deal too.

This management (including Pegulas) are so out of their depth against other NHL GMs and agents.

You're looking for reasons to criticize, and this is a weak one to do it with. I'll leave it at that.
 

HogtownSabresfan

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Jan 13, 2010
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You're looking for reasons to criticize, and this is a weak one to do it with. I'll leave it at that.

You wonder why the Sabres haven't made the playoffs in 10 years (and I'm a huge fan of the team.) It's horrible asset management and negotiation like on Taylor Hall. It's not some accident. It's overpaying on every deal, losing every trade -- just getting continually bluffed and outsmarted. 10 years. Four dead last finishes. Let it sink in. Stop and think about every deal. Hall deadline deal is just the latest flub, relatively minor compared to some others. Sabres got the a return that would really be at the bottom range of what was predicted. Blinked again. Let me know how it's working out in another decade. LOL
 

BowieSabresFan

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Nov 18, 2010
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You wonder why the Sabres haven't made the playoffs in 10 years (and I'm a huge fan of the team.) It's horrible asset management and negotiation like on Taylor Hall. It's not some accident. It's overpaying on every deal, losing every trade -- just getting continually bluffed and outsmarted. 10 years. Four dead last finishes. Let it sink in. Stop and think about every deal. Hall deadline deal is just the latest flub, relatively minor compared to some others. Sabres got the a return that would really be at the bottom range of what was predicted. Blinked again. Let me know how it's working out in another decade. LOL

Welcome to my ignore list. Go rant/lecture at someone else.
 

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