Player Discussion Bobby Ryan Part VI

[Langdon Alger]

Biggest mistake of the offseason was not paying Vegas to take Ryan.

Who is to say they didn’t try? If I were McPhee, I’d want no part of Ryan. Or Phaneuf for that matter.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Ryan's hurt. When are people on this board going to understand injuries affect players ability on the ice.

Its Boucher who screwed up the chemistry. Changing players lines and positions every game make it impossible to play at this level. Why the he'll when Ryan came back did they not put him back with Stone and Brassard. They were dominant. Boucher over thinks everything.

When isn't Ryan hurt?

He's a likeable guy and all, but damn, he is the forward version of Leclaire. Either Bobby has to start drinking milk, or he needs to wear some contact lenses on the ice so he can see well enough to get out of danger before he gets whacked again.

It's getting tot he point that you start wondering....

 

[Tuna99]

Ryan's somehow got this fanbase to the point of having such low expectations that his 1 goal isn't seen as anything out of the ordinary. This guy gets #1 PP minutes. He's the biggest con in the history of $7 million players.

Before he even starts a season or takes the ice Ryan has a media narrative built up around him to sell the 'Ryan Story' - he's injured, he's not injured but you don't know what he's going through, he's not injured enough to not play but he's injured enough to not play well, he got unfairly caught up with Alfie leaving, he had mono, he was adjusting, he's got new equipment, he missed Mac so much we don't understand how much it meant to Ryan, he's figuring out the system and it takes him longer , lots of coaches, lots of linemnates, the contract distration, now that he has a huge contract he doesn't know how to live up to it.

The fanbase has been fed such a 'Poor-Ryan pity him' story since the day he landed his floating on ice now is seen as him permantly adjusting to being alive with an NHL job to do. if Ryan played in Philly, Vancouver, NY, Boston he would of been eaten alive by their fan bases for his lame efforts and results, it just wouldn't be tolerated.

I think Ryan's biggest saving grace is he falls into this weird chasm of a mix of respect for Murray and hatred off Melnyck, Ryan is somehow the poster boy of cheap and senile ownership trying to do prove he's not cheap by giving out a huge contract to a player who never and didn't deserve it (we can always point to the Ryan contract as an example of an owner willing to pay up when the time comes) and a GM who was so optimistic about Ryan working out for the fans that we still sort of carry with us Murray's best wishes for Ryan to become a top 6 player and affirm Murray's legacy that he always saw the the good in Ryan's game - but it will always just be that, a wish.

Ryan is the poster boy of the Melnyck era, it won't be Alfie, it won't be Stone, it won't be Karlsson, it won't be Anderson. It'll be Ryan, who like Melnyck, showed up to Ottawa with so much promise, delivered nothing, almost insulting efforts, and left mega rich after years of us being fed their sad stories of finger injuries and $94 million losses.

 

[Stylizer1]

Ryan was never better than what we already had but got paid like a difference maker. Maybe it time for the media to start piling on this guy. He's had it too easy in Ottawa for how bad he's played.

 

[UnHappyDude]

Don't worry. When the sens get new ownership in the summer they will buy him out

 

[JD1]

Ryan's somehow got this fanbase to the point of having such low expectations that his 1 goal isn't seen as anything out of the ordinary. This guy gets #1 PP minutes. He's the biggest con in the history of $7 million players.

Before he even starts a season or takes the ice Ryan has a media narrative built up around him to sell the 'Ryan Story' - he's injured, he's not injured but you don't know what he's going through, he's not injured enough to not play but he's injured enough to not play well, he got unfairly caught up with Alfie leaving, he had mono, he was adjusting, he's got new equipment, he missed Mac so much we don't understand how much it meant to Ryan, he's figuring out the system and it takes him longer , lots of coaches, lots of linemnates, the contract distration, now that he has a huge contract he doesn't know how to live up to it.

The fanbase has been fed such a 'Poor-Ryan pity him' story since the day he landed his floating on ice now is seen as him permantly adjusting to being alive with an NHL job to do. if Ryan played in Philly, Vancouver, NY, Boston he would of been eaten alive by their fan bases for his lame efforts and results, it just wouldn't be tolerated.

I think Ryan's biggest saving grace is he falls into this weird chasm of a mix of respect for Murray and hatred off Melnyck, Ryan is somehow the poster boy of cheap and senile ownership trying to do prove he's not cheap by giving out a huge contract to a player who never and didn't deserve it (we can always point to the Ryan contract as an example of an owner willing to pay up when the time comes) and a GM who was so optimistic about Ryan working out for the fans that we still sort of carry with us Murray's best wishes for Ryan to become a top 6 player and affirm Murray's legacy that he always saw the the good in Ryan's game - but it will always just be that, a wish.

Ryan is the poster boy of the Melnyck era, it won't be Alfie, it won't be Stone, it won't be Karlsson, it won't be Anderson. It'll be Ryan, who like Melnyck, showed up to Ottawa with so much promise, delivered nothing, almost insulting efforts, and left mega rich after years of us being fed their sad stories of finger injuries and $94 million losses.

I can't believe you wasted your life typing out all that bs

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Don't worry. When the sens get new ownership in the summer they will buy him out

Doesn't help much. According to Cap Friendly, his buyout cap hit is 3.5 mil for the next 4 years (before dropping to 1.8 for the next 4 years). Add int he cost of the guy replacing him at similar production, and we save nothing.

 

[UnHappyDude]

Doesn't help much. According to Cap Friendly, his buyout cap hit is 3.5 mil for the next 4 years (before dropping to 1.8 for the next 4 years). Add int he cost of the guy replacing him at similar production, and we save nothing.

What is the sens waive him and he plays in bellevillego? Does his contract still count towards the cap?

 

[umma gumma]

Ryan's somehow got this fanbase to the point of having such low expectations that his 1 goal isn't seen as anything out of the ordinary. This guy gets #1 PP minutes. He's the biggest con in the history of $7 million players.

Before he even starts a season or takes the ice Ryan has a media narrative built up around him to sell the 'Ryan Story' - he's injured, he's not injured but you don't know what he's going through, he's not injured enough to not play but he's injured enough to not play well, he got unfairly caught up with Alfie leaving, he had mono, he was adjusting, he's got new equipment, he missed Mac so much we don't understand how much it meant to Ryan, he's figuring out the system and it takes him longer , lots of coaches, lots of linemnates, the contract distration, now that he has a huge contract he doesn't know how to live up to it.

The fanbase has been fed such a 'Poor-Ryan pity him' story since the day he landed his floating on ice now is seen as him permantly adjusting to being alive with an NHL job to do. if Ryan played in Philly, Vancouver, NY, Boston he would of been eaten alive by their fan bases for his lame efforts and results, it just wouldn't be tolerated.

I think Ryan's biggest saving grace is he falls into this weird chasm of a mix of respect for Murray and hatred off Melnyck, Ryan is somehow the poster boy of cheap and senile ownership trying to do prove he's not cheap by giving out a huge contract to a player who never and didn't deserve it (we can always point to the Ryan contract as an example of an owner willing to pay up when the time comes) and a GM who was so optimistic about Ryan working out for the fans that we still sort of carry with us Murray's best wishes for Ryan to become a top 6 player and affirm Murray's legacy that he always saw the the good in Ryan's game - but it will always just be that, a wish.

Ryan is the poster boy of the Melnyck era, it won't be Alfie, it won't be Stone, it won't be Karlsson, it won't be Anderson. It'll be Ryan, who like Melnyck, showed up to Ottawa with so much promise, delivered nothing, almost insulting efforts, and left mega rich after years of us being fed their sad stories of finger injuries and $94 million losses.

Geez man...does it feel like the walls are closing in on you?

 

[Fandlauer]

Ryan was a good signing at the time. A multiple 30 goal scorer brought in after the face of the franchise walked. It was a smart move by a veteran GM trying to bring in a key piece and give the fanbase some reason for optimism. Nobody knew he'd completely fall off the face of the earth. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Unfortunately being a budget team it just handicaps us more than teams who are willing to bury contracts.

 

[Tuna99]

Geez man...does it feel like the walls are closing in on you?

Not the walls, but can I tell you that my finger hurts?

 

[aragorn]

Once again that's sports, it's a tough business where the opposition are always trying to take your head off or in this case with Ryan, his hands & fingers. Some players get keyed on because they are difference makers & like him or not Ryan can be a difference maker. Because of this fact, he is paid special attention, given extra whacks every chance possible & when you get hit in the same place enough times it doesn't heal properly, especially fingers, I have a few crooked ones myself.

While we might think he is injury prone, he is getting older, doesn't heal as quickly as when he was younger & continues to be targeted & looks to bail more often than when he was younger. He's going to have some serious arthritis issues when he is older. It's not an excuse, it's a reality that I think has changed his game & how he plays, all the good players have targets on their backs. Look how much abuse Crosby gets.

But what Ryan really needs to do is tone down the dangling, he loses way too many pucks trying to finesse his way past defenders or make impossible passes where we lose possession usually in the offensive end. Hoffman & a few others are guilty of this as well. These guys need to simplify & stop complicating the game with all this fancy crap. It may look great & appreciated when their winning, but looks awful when they are losing & kills momentum.

 

[DJB]

This guy is going to be out of the league like Heatley shortly after hes off the Sens roster.

At least Heatley could actually shoot the puck. Ryan has one of the weakest shots I've ever seen.

 

[JD1]

This guy is going to be out of the league like Heatley shortly after hes off the Sens roster.

At least Heatley could actually shoot the puck. Ryan has one of the weakest shots I've ever seen.

if you can find some old you tube on Ryan check it out. I have no idea if any exist but he used to really be able to shoot. the past few seasons he's broken his fingers and hands so many times it looks like that is no longer a skill he has.

 

[DJB]

Ill take a look, but the guy has no slap shot and his wrister is a weak noodle armed dribbler most shots. Its not even CHL worthy.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Ryan was never better than what we already had but got paid like a difference maker. Maybe it time for the media to start piling on this guy. He's had it too easy in Ottawa for how bad he's played.

This isn't exactly true.

Ryan was elite his first half season in Ottawa, or at least the closest thing we've had until Stone broke out to an elite forward since Spezza. I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but he might have been on pace for 30/70 and looked like a legit gamebreaker prior to breaking his finger. He went ice cold to close out the season before being shut down when it was evident that we weren't making the playoffs.

When Sens management paid him, what they had to go on was 4/5 season in ANA where he was a 30+ goal per 82 games forward with a peak of 71 points, and then a season in OTT where he looked just as good until having the excuse of getting hurt. So at the time, it really didn't seem like that bad of a contract. It wasn't a steal or a bargain, but it seemed like a market value UFA deal for a player like that.

 

[Karl Prime]

Did Ryan injure his finger in 13-14? I thought he had a hernia injury in November, up to which he was having an outstanding season.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

This guy is going to be out of the league like Heatley shortly after hes off the Sens roster.

At least Heatley could actually shoot the puck. Ryan has one of the weakest shots I've ever seen.

Ryan's shooting has gone way down hill, probably due to breaking his fingers every two games.

Both Ryan and Heatley has similar issues, conditioning. Look at the difference it made for Ryan when he sat out a big chunk of the season and apparently focused on skating during his time off, and then returned super hot for the playoffs. He looked like a different player. I won't pretend to know what Ryan does in the off season, but even Ryan admitted in an interview around that time that how things played out was beneficial to him coming into the playoffs.

Ryan's foot speed isn't anywhere near as bad as Heatley though. I think I remember there were apparently concerns about his footspeed being an issue when the Senators originally extended Heatley, that it might not keep up with age, and could lead to him not being as dangerous of a player. That seems to be exactly what happened. Ryan's not a blazing fast player, but I don't think his footspeed is as much of a concern, more conditioning.

 

[Karl Prime]

To be fair to Heater, we'd be happy with Bobby if he had production like Heatley had his first 4 seasons after leaving Ottawa.

 

[JD1]

Did Ryan injure his finger in 13-14? I thought he had a hernia injury in November, up to which he was having an outstanding season.

hmmmm....ya I think your right on the hernia

the 70 point pace is right too. Ryan was lights out up until the last 10 games before he got shut down

 

[Xspyrit]

Some posts are really perplexing... I guess that's what happens when it's fueled by hate... oh well

Ryan was a good signing at the time. A multiple 30 goal scorer brought in after the face of the franchise walked. It was a smart move by a veteran GM trying to bring in a key piece and give the fanbase some reason for optimism. Nobody knew he'd completely fall off the face of the earth. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Unfortunately being a budget team it just handicaps us more than teams who are willing to bury contracts.

Great post. That trade was great at first. Silfverberg is a good player but people acting like he was a world beater are exaggerating. He has a 0.51 PPG pace in 319 Games with Anaheim despite getting a lot of ice-time. Ritchie isn't anything special (or that 2014 draft) IMO and Noesen ended up being waived. On the other hand, Ryan looked like he was going to be a ~65-70 pts player with Ottawa, until the injury trouble began... May I refer people to that post for those who didn't see it :

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/138411619/

Yes Ryan has slowed down because of his constant injuries but I wouldn't say "he'd completely fall off the face of the earth" yet, as he was Conn Smythe worthy in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs just a few months ago. He also started the season pretty good but got injured, and then came back with the team in the middle of a huge slump. Still has 3 points in the last 4 games

Oh by the way, the cap is going to raise to 80-82 M$ next year, it's getting harder and harder for Ottawa to compete. You have to be able to absorb that 1-2 M$ that Ryan and Phaneuf are each overpaid with. You want to compete with the best teams year after year? Maybe it will work some years by not spending to the cap, but you have to spend to the cap or very close to build a championship team.

This guy is going to be out of the league like Heatley shortly after hes off the Sens roster.

At least Heatley could actually shoot the puck. Ryan has one of the weakest shots I've ever seen.

Ryan had one of the best releases in the league a few years ago.

I don't understood how people get fooled by this, unless you just began following the NHL, Ryan is part of a long list of players whose career has went downhill after a rash of injuries. This is nothing new. Heatley, Havlat, Gaborik, Michalek, so many

It's actually pretty hard to produce offense in the NHL without a good shot, and Ryan's shot is now a shell of what it once was. Not because he's "old" but just because he got banged up too much. NHL hockey isn't a soft sport. Those guys earn a lot of money but they are definitely putting their body on the line. I talked with Rob Ramage recently about that and it's exactly what he told me, you are pretty banged up after your career.

A luck for Ryan that he has great vision, hockey sense and playmaking skills.

This isn't exactly true.

Ryan was elite his first half season in Ottawa, or at least the closest thing we've had until Stone broke out to an elite forward since Spezza. I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but he might have been on pace for 30/70 and looked like a legit gamebreaker prior to breaking his finger. He went ice cold to close out the season before being shut down when it was evident that we weren't making the playoffs.

When Sens management paid him, what they had to go on was 4/5 season in ANA where he was a 30+ goal per 82 games forward with a peak of 71 points, and then a season in OTT where he looked just as good until having the excuse of getting hurt. So at the time, it really didn't seem like that bad of a contract. It wasn't a steal or a bargain, but it seemed like a market value UFA deal for a player like that.

Got them right there in my post. It's the post #703 in this thread.

 

[Icelevel]

Ryan was a good signing at the time. A multiple 30 goal scorer brought in after the face of the franchise walked. It was a smart move by a veteran GM trying to bring in a key piece and give the fanbase some reason for optimism. Nobody knew he'd completely fall off the face of the earth. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Unfortunately being a budget team it just handicaps us more than teams who are willing to bury contracts.

Not sure you should be using "smart move by a veteran GM" in this case. The case where alfredsson the most beloved and best senator of all time was upset to the point he had to move his family and leave for Detroit. This was followed by a 1st round pick, silfverberg(who at the time seemed to be loved by fans and organization as well and with good reason) and noesen(oh well bottom 6er it turns out). People assume Ritchie would have been the guy we selected. There were other excellent players available. It turned out to be a terrible trade for a bunch of reasons. All this to cover up the horrible mistake made letting alfie go over a few dollars.
Alfredsson, silfverberg, noesen, 10 overall pick for bobby ryan at 7m
So correction. It was a dumb move by a GM who should have been fired long before maybe then optimism wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

When isn't Ryan hurt?

He's a likeable guy and all, but damn, he is the forward version of Leclaire. Either Bobby has to start drinking milk, or he needs to wear some contact lenses on the ice so he can see well enough to get out of danger before he gets whacked again.

It's getting tot he point that you start wondering....

"But look at his pace when he's healthy". Great. How often is he healthy though. It's been what 4-5 straight seasons now

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Regarding trading for Ryan being caused by Alfredsson leaving, that's not exactly true.

First, it has to be established that Alfredsson's contract demands were based on the claim by Alfredsson that both sides mutually agreed to tack on a "fake" year at the end of Alfredsson's deal at only 1M salary in order to artificially lower Alfredsson's cap hit. Both sides assumed Alfredsson would have been retired before playing out that final year. Alfredsson ended up playing out his contract, and felt it would be fair for him to be paid at a higher than market value on an extension to stay with the Senators in order to compensate him for only making 1M per when he did the team a favor by adding that back diving year. For the record, Bryan Murray disputed Alfredsson's interpretation of his contract.

Murray always intended to trade for Bobby Ryan. The Senators were in on him for a while. That was one of the big points of contentions between Murray and Alfredsson during the failed contract negotiation that ultimately resulted in Alfredsson leaving for the Red Wings. Murray giving Alfredsson what he wanted would have prevented the team from having the funds to add Bobby Ryan.

Alfredsson leaving may have expedited the trade, but it was always going to happen. The only thing that would have stopped it would have been the Senators agreeing to Alfredsson's contract demands.

I used to think that Murray relented and pulled the trigger on giving up a 1st in order to distract fans from Alfredsson leaving, but it's equally as possible that he simple did not pull the trigger on the trade before Alfredsson left, because the team could not afford both Alfredsson at his asking price and Ryan. Especially since a big selling point from Murray to Alfredsson was if you sign for x, we will be able to add Bobby Ryan, I think it makes sense to think that the trade was going to happen regardless as long as Alfredsson signed a deal leaving budget space available to add Ryan.

 

[JD1]

Not sure you should be using "smart move by a veteran GM" in this case. The case where alfredsson the most beloved and best senator of all time was upset to the point he had to move his family and leave for Detroit. This was followed by a 1st round pick, silfverberg(who at the time seemed to be loved by fans and organization as well and with good reason) and noesen(oh well bottom 6er it turns out). People assume Ritchie would have been the guy we selected. There were other excellent players available. It turned out to be a terrible trade for a bunch of reasons. All this to cover up the horrible mistake made letting alfie go over a few dollars.
Alfredsson, silfverberg, noesen, 10 overall pick for bobby ryan at 7m
So correction. It was a dumb move by a GM who should have been fired long before maybe then optimism wouldn't be an issue.

I always find it interesting that when an event happens with any perceived negativity associated with it the mgmt group is identified as solely responsible for it by certain posters.

Alfredsson left. He played a role in his own departure.

Turris is gone. He too played a role in his own departure.

Neither situation is solely 100% the result of the team's mgmt