TSN: Bob McKenzie: Senators involved in trade dialogue for Karlsson with half-dozen teams

[slamigo]

Significant development by the most respected insider in the industry deserved it's own thread imo.

Meh, he doesn’t actually have anything other than speculation. McKenzie admits to having no inside knowledge that ANY team has even talked to Ottawa about Karlsson. None.
This is all 100% speculation. It’s bad journalism plain and simple. If he has any actual information, then share it. Otherwise this is just an op-ed piece.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

The Senators have let it be known that the number of notable pieces in the price could be discounted somewhat if Ryan and his contract are taken on as part of any Karlsson deal.

This is significant if it is accurate, since the implication would be that we would deal Karlsson without Ryan being involved. Ryan being involved would limit the market for Karlsson.

Even if we have our heart set on Ryan being part of the deal, we should still negotiate with teams who cannot take Ryan since it'll allow us to drive up the market and inflate the price on the team who we eventually have take Karlsson+Ryan.

 

[HavlatMach9]

it feels like packaging Ryan and Karlsson really reduces the quality of offers because of limiting teams and return to choose from. It just cannot be good for the future franchise going that route even if it means dumping off Ryan.

 

[slamigo]

But then McKenzie follows that with the fact that he has no clue if any teams have actually spoken to Dorion about Karlsson. So he’s talking out of his hat right now.

 

[branch]

Never thought I would see the day. But Pierre and Eugene have delivered it unto us. Generational defenseman = good as gone.

 

[bert]

it feels like packaging Ryan and Karlsson really reduces the quality of offers because of limiting teams and return to choose from. It just cannot be good for the future franchise going that route even if it means dumping off Ryan.

And we dont have our first!!!! Bobby Ryan while not worth his contract when he is healthy is a good hockey player. Its absurd. Makes our team that much worse and the sens get back less and kills the ability to negotiate.

I really cant believe this is happening. Melnyk just sell the f***ing team and stop screwing us over.

 

[topshelf15]

Never thought I would see the day. But Pierre and Eugene have delivered it unto us. Generational defenseman = good as gone.

Iam sure as day ,he would love to resign EK..Just as BM wanted to resign Alfie

 

[JungleBeat]

I fully accept Karlsson will be traded. Does anybody in here trust Dorion to get us back a good haul? I sure as hell don’t.

 

[topshelf15]

I fully accept Karlsson will be traded. Does anybody in here trust Dorion to get us back a good haul? I sure as hell don’t.

How is he expected to get a good haul when EM wants us to toss an albatross contract on top of EK in any deal??

 

[JungleBeat]

How is he expected to get a good haul when EM wants us to toss an albatross contract on top of EK in any deal??

Management gave Ryan that deal after Melnyk paid up. Don’t ever think that our management is not to blame for the state this team is in. Melnyk is an idiot yes, but Dorion should get his fair blame as well.

Also, I don’t believe that rumour one bit. This organization can’t be that stupid...

 

[topshelf15]

Management gave Ryan that deal after Melnyk paid up. Don’t ever think that our management is not to blame for the state this team is in. Melnyk is an idiot yes, but Dorion should get his fair blame as well.

Money in for money out...We had the money to resign our players ,but EM wouldnt let our GM,s use it...

 

[Very Stable Genius]

Management gave Ryan that deal after Melnyk paid up. Don’t ever think that our management is not to blame for the state this team is in. Melnyk is an idiot yes, but Dorion should get his fair blame as well.

Also, I don’t believe that rumour one bit. This organization can’t be that stupid...

BM too.

 

[CanadianHockey]

But then McKenzie follows that with the fact that he has no clue if any teams have actually spoken to Dorion about Karlsson. So he’s talking out of his hat right now.

No, you are misrepresenting what McKenzie said.

To the best of our knowledge, the Senators have not received formal offers on Karlsson. The discussions that have taken place thus far were more Dorion laying out the general parameters of what a Karlsson deal would need to look like from Ottawa’s end.

Ottawa has not received a formal offer, ie "We are willing to give up our 1st, this LWer, this prospect..."

Ottawa has had a half dozen plus calls that basically went, "Hey, Pierre, is Karlsson available? What would it take to move him?"
Pierre's response to said calls was up to seven pieces including a mix of 1st Rd Picks, young roster players, and prospects, or less if you are willing to take Ryan's contract with Karlsson.

This isn't McKenzie talking out of his ass. It may be that the media has played up Karlsson rumours, so GMs are calling to find out if it's true. It may be that Dorion is shopping Karlsson. That part, we don't know.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Even Yzerman, Alfredsson and Stamkos were in trade talks

 

[The Lewler]

Management gave Ryan that deal after Melnyk paid up. Don’t ever think that our management is not to blame for the state this team is in. Melnyk is an idiot yes, but Dorion should get his fair blame as well.

Also, I don’t believe that rumour one bit. This organization can’t be that stupid...

Well, as hard as it is for a lot of us to understand, there is also a vocal contingent of Sens fans (including some big time STH's I know) who don't like Karlsson and are hoping he is traded.

I mean, obviously everyone can hope for whatever they want. I don't agree , but mgmt. will be able to find people to support them wholeheartedly if they deal him, no question.

 

[JungleBeat]

BM too.

Worst GM in Sens history(best coach). His incompetence is what lead to this disaster.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I fully accept Karlsson will be traded. Does anybody in here trust Dorion to get us back a good haul? I sure as hell don’t.

He's going to get us a good haul if he's dealt at the deadline. I don't think he'll be traded right now otherwise.

I think we'll get something close to the 5-7 piece asking price that'll be headlined by a top young player like a Sergachev, and then multiple 1st round picks+prospects. Because if we don't get something like that, he won't be dealt right now. (Or at least, I'd hope that would be the frame of mind Dorion is in)

I don't think whatever we get will be worth trading away Erik Karlsson, but that's sort of a given.

If Dorion manages to get the Sprong+Gustavsson+1st return for Brassard rumoured in our trade thread, and then 5-7 pieces for Karlsson, regardless of how terrible the situation is, he would have set us up nicely for a rebuild/re-tool and that would be before dealing any one of Smith, Ceci, Hoffman, that the team decides to move on from.

Trading Karlsson will also have the by product of tanking our way to what'll probably be a guaranteed 4th overall pick. Teams occasionally rally around stuff like this, but without Karlsson playing 25 minutes a night, I doubt we'll win many games going forward.

Not having the 2019 1st is still a huge handicap. If we keep Karlsson at the deadline, maybe we play our way up the rankings to the point that giving away our 2018 pick if it is close to 10th would be the better approach. If we trade Karlsson, I don't think that'll be an option.

 

[MarkStone]

Dorion would be crazy not to listen to trade offers for Karlsson. Look at the load Quebec City/Colorado got for Eric Lindros.

You do realize that was almost 30 years ago right? Expecting a similar haul from a GM in the modern NHL, especially when Karlsson is much older and has many more injuries/miles on him, is a pipe dream.

 

[slamigo]

No, you are misrepresenting what McKenzie said.

Am I now? From his article:

“...Based on the teams I think — note I didn’t use the word “know” — have had early dialogue with Ottawa...”

 

[DaveMatthew]

Remember when Darren Dreger said that Kyle Turris wouldn't finish the season in Ottawa, and we all thought he was an idiot who was just speculating? After all, we had lots of time to negotiate a contract, and Turris was a huge part of the team for the last 6 years!

Well, we all know what happened.

If someone like Bob McKenzie is writing this article, it's more than idle speculation. Where there's smoke, there's fire, and this is one massive bonfire.

It's happening. Whether it happens before Monday or in the offseason, it's pretty clear that this ownership and management group has no real interest in keeping Karlsson as a Senator. Sure Dorion will say it's his "top priority", but let's be real. We're not going to pay the market price. We were never going to.

When the deal is made, Dorion will come out and say how it was the toughest decision of his career. Melnyk will talk about a renewed commitment to winning and scouting and drafting and whatever. But it's all crap. It won't be a hockey deal. It'll be a money deal, and we'll lose. When you trade a player like Karlsson, you don't win. Look at Joe Thornton, Chris Pronger, Patrick Roy, etc. We won't get Draisaitl. We won't get a star. We'll get quantity.

At the end of the day it's just sad that it's come to this. This franchise doesn't deserve the fans' support. It's a joke.

 

[bert]

Worst GM in Sens history(best coach). His incompetence is what lead to this disaster.

If you think he was a good coach then you obviously followed the team during the Muckler Era. Which means you have trouble evaluating GM's. Muckler was the worst until Dorion got here now its a real battle.

 

[DaveMatthew]

it feels like packaging Ryan and Karlsson really reduces the quality of offers because of limiting teams and return to choose from. It just cannot be good for the future franchise going that route even if it means dumping off Ryan.

And why would it even matter to trade Ryan? If we trade Karlsson, we don't need cap space. We'll have tons. Phaneuf is gone, Karlsson will be gone. We can pay Ryan to play his 55 games. We'll have to, at the very least, hit the cap floor.

There's absolutely no reason to even consider including Ryan in a Karlsson deal. It's asinine.

 

[Xspyrit]

Part of me hopes Dorion is just laying out a ridiculous ask so no one will offer anything, almost as a way to tell Melnyk, 'sorry I tried to get rid of more salary, but this is the best we can do". Too optimistic by half probably.

Dorion said a few weeks ago that everybody was available except Karlsson and Stone. From what is reported, teams are calling to test ground and see what it would take to land Karlsson. I don’t see a reason why would the GM would not listen to them. It doesn't mean that Karlsson is on the move

The only thing is that it opens up speculation and own perception from outsiders and some Sens fans to take more shots at the team. Damn reporters, nothing is kept behind closed doors anymore

What is important is that Dorion doesn’t move from his asking price. King ransom’s or nothing

 

[RyCam]

If the Sens trade EK, I'm done with this team until Melnyk and Dorion are gone. Might not be fair to put Dorion in the same sentence as Melnyk, but if he had any balls, he would tell Melnyk how much of a bad idea trading EK is.

 

[CanadianHockey]

Am I now? From his article:

“...Based on the teams I think — note I didn’t use the word “know” — have had early dialogue with Ottawa...”

There's a difference between "I know that Ottawa has fielded calls about Karlsson" and "I know the specific teams that Ottawa has fielded calls about Karlsson," and McKenzie's wording indicates he knows the former and is speculating about the latter. Moreover, the former statement does not meant those teams are all interested enough to put in an actual offer; they may just be doing their due diligence.

I will agree that overall, McKenzie seems to believe that teams asking about Karlsson's availability are being told it's a really steep price, and that Dorion isn't likely to actually move him. He's just saying "it'll cost an arm, a leg, and your newborn son" instead of "he's absolutely not available."