TSN: Bob McKenzie: Senators involved in trade dialogue for Karlsson with half-dozen teams

[aragorn]

I think now it boils down to ..

1. Does Erik want to sign and be part of the 2 steps back 1 forward plan vs be traded to a team that can win sooner?
2. Does Dorion think he can resign Karlsson to the right $ figure vs trading him for a close to fair return?
3. How much the budget and Melnyk will play a role with either of their decisions

I think it boils down to whoever will pay EK the most to re-sign him, winning the cup is a secondary thought at this point. I think he takes the money & runs like anybody else would do when you are talking about the opportunity for the largest payday of his life. Really what is more important than that for him & his family?

 

[swiftwin]

The Sens never executed a "go all in for EK approach".

They could easily have done so this summer with the playoff revenue and expansion fee, but instead of ditching the budget and adding quality pieces (as they promised they would), they forced EK to play with a 1st pairing partner they just put on waivers.

No twisting...just the facts.

Dorion is the one who went all in for EK, but within the bounds set by Melnyk. These bounds are the reason we had to move Turris in order to get Duchene.

I'm starting to think Dorion might actually be the one who genuinely wants to trade Karlsson. If Melnyk keeps the internal cap in place, it would be impossible to ever field a competitive team if Karlsson makes $12m. The only way to have a chance with an internal cap is to have a Vegas approach and have a young, fast and deep team with a good coach/system, and no superstar. That's how we were competitive back in 1998-2003 when our owner was even more broke than Melnyk, and other teams could spend as much as possible because there was no cap. Trading Karlsson could give us a huge jump in that direction.

 

[topshelf15]

I think it boils down to whoever will pay EK the most to re-sign him, winning the cup is a secondary thought at this point. I think he takes the money & runs like anybody else would do when you are talking about the opportunity for the largest payday of his life. Really what is more important than that for him & his family?

I agree ,but iam sure EK will want the promise of a good team around him where money isnt the be all and end all ..In building a great team around him

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think it boils down to whoever will pay EK the most to re-sign him, winning the cup is a secondary thought at this point. I think he takes the money & runs like anybody else would do when you are talking about the opportunity for the largest payday of his life. Really what is more important than that for him & his family?

He doesn't get to test that until the end of next year.. the decision on him staying or leaving will happen before that...IMO there is virtually zero chance we let him get to UFA

 

[The Professional]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I just never felt like Karl was going to get traded. It makes zero sense from a hockey perspective and zero sense from a business perspective. The rumors picked up a lot of steam in the last few days, but honestly, how much of it was due to speculation by bloggers and such? I honestly feel like a lot of this was blown out of proportion by the overly sensationalist media to boost ratings for shows like Trade Center, which are usually overhyped borefests.

Eugene Melnyk might be a huge douchebag, but an idiot, at least from a business perspective, he is not. You think he's pissed about attendance figures right now? How do you figure trading the captain, fan favourite, top 5 current NHL player, top 3 Senator of all time would affect those attendance figures? You think Melnyk is not aware of this? He does not want to trade Karl. He wants to sign him to an extension because right now, Karl is the only thing putting butts in the seats.

Now were there offers on the table for Karl? Sure. The season is a disaster, we're tanking and so of course, GMs of contending teams will come calling with offers. And obviously, with the season going the way it has, some changes were going to be made, hence the Phaneuf and Brassard trades. So Dorion was open to at least listen to offers, see if someone was willing to make an offer he couldn't refuse. It's nothing personal, this is a business. He didn't get any offer that was worth it, so he didn't make a deal. And that’s that. Now, he is gonna try to sign Karl to an extension. This is nothing unprecedented, there was no ‘’bridge burned’’ or any of this over the top drama. How many times was Alfie rumored to be in trades during the Sens glory years? Craig Conroy anyone?

Honestly, I think a lot of this is due to social media. So many people out there who think they’re in the loop of things and are experts, and now more than ever, these people have a platform. Blow things out of proportion, and it gets re-tweeted or re-blogged enough times and pretty quickly it becomes consensus.

 

[topshelf15]

We should just give EK the rest of the season off,after that nonsense.......He could take a long vacation,Maybe bring his buddies Stone,Hoff and Duch with him............lol

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The Sens never executed a "go all in for EK approach".

They could easily have done so this summer with the playoff revenue and expansion fee, but instead of ditching the budget and adding quality pieces (as they promised they would), they forced EK to play with a 1st pairing partner they just put on waivers.

No twisting...just the facts.

Karlsson helped recruit Oduya.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The Sens never executed a "go all in for EK approach".

They could easily have done so this summer with the playoff revenue and expansion fee, but instead of ditching the budget and adding quality pieces (as they promised they would), they forced EK to play with a 1st pairing partner they just put on waivers.

No twisting...just the facts.

No, they added a #1 centre, and a vet depth defender, to a squad that was within a goal of the finals. Twisting the facts indeed, I think I'm done with you, your agenda is pretty clear, and nothing is going to get in the way of that.

 

[aragorn]

I agree ,but iam sure EK will want the promise of a good team around him where money isnt the be all and end all ..In building a great team around him

Why? He has a crappy team around him now & he is playing like crap & says he would stay but he wants to get what he deserves. That sounds more like a money issue than a good team around him issue. His next contract will probably be his biggest payday of his career, it's bigger than hockey, it's a decision that will affect the rest of his life & that of his families. Of course, he is going to get what he is worth & maybe if he is lucky he may also go to a good team that has a shot at winning the cup. But if Melnyk pays him (which I doubt) he could stay here on a crappy team but still make his $100 million.

For Melnyk, I think it boils down to whether he wants to pay an outlandish amount of money to ONE player when the rest of the team sucks & probably aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Or would it make more sense to move him, get as much as you can for him & try & build another good winning team around some other players including some of the good young prospects that are coming like Brown, White, Formenton & Batherson. Sure the fans will hate him until the team starts winning again & then they will forget. That would be my guess.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

We should just give EK the rest of the season off,after that nonsense.......He could take a long vacation,Maybe bring his buddies Stone,Hoff and Duch with him............lol

Bring White , Chlapik, Paul and Sexton up and let Randy Lee have at'er and bring Ol' time hockey back to Belleville.

 

[Sensinitis]

Apparently Karlsson just bought a house in Ottawa.

And his wife is expecting a child right around training camp next year. She is from Ottawa too obviously.

Both those facts don’t really point towards someone who would like to leave Ottawa if given the choice. So, unless that someone really gets lowballed and ownership doesn’t want to get the deal done, there’s no reason for him not to be re-signed.

 

[NorthCoast]

I think now it boils down to ..

1. Does Erik want to sign and be part of the 2 steps back 1 forward plan vs be traded to a team that can win sooner?
2. Does Dorion think he can resign Karlsson to the right $ figure vs trading him for a close to fair return?
3. How much the budget and Melnyk will play a role with either of their decisions

Call me crazy. But if I am putting together a 1-3 year plan for the team to present to the owner, a plan that will guide team decisions through a trade deadline and offseason...don't I have the answers to these questions already?

I am seriously looking for someone to present a solid argument for how the PD/Melnyk plan is flexible enough for either a team with or without Karlsson. Or in other words, with or without an elite level talent to build around.

The way I see it, with Karlsson it a retool, and while you want to get younger/better in a retool, you don't want to be BAD for years because then your older core won't want to stick around.

Without Karlsson it's a rebuild. Because you need elite level talent to win. And it's almost impossible to trade for, and rarely comes up in free agency (not that anyone would sign in Ottawa right now). So you need it from the draft, and usually from the top of the draft...therefore you need 2-3 years of tanking to ensure high picks, which means stripping out enough talent to finish close to the bottom....which is a rebuild.

I really just don't see how you can work off of both possibilities and make smart decisions because it's not just about getting good return on a trade. Karlsson for Tavares is a lot different than Karlsson for 4 first round picks in terms of long-term strategy. Hypothetically let's say both are good value. But you don't take the picks if you are retooling and you don't take Tavares if you are rebuilding.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

This team is going nowhere with either Smith or Pageau as the second line centre. Most likely Pageau as I can see them trading Smith in the off season

 

[aragorn]

He doesn't get to test that until the end of next year.. the decision on him staying or leaving will happen before that...IMO there is virtually zero chance we let him get to UFA

That's true & I agree they will never let him just walk, but July 1st is coming fast & if they can't or won't re-sign him for what he wants then they will move him, right? That decision is right around the corner. If they can't move him this summer won't the return be less after the season starts next yr & as they move closer to next yr's deadline?

And if that is the case any team giving up a ton of assets to acquire EK this summer is probably going to want some guarantee that they can re-sign him or next contract soon in hand as Turris got. They will know what he wants to be re-signed & that will play into their decision whether to trade for him or not. Whoever gets him could end up with 6 or 9 yrs of EK on their top pairing, I wonder what that is worth?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Apparently Karlsson just bought a house in Ottawa.

And his wife is expecting a child right around training camp next year. She is from Ottawa too obviously.

Both those facts don’t really point towards someone who would like to leave Ottawa if given the choice. So, unless that someone really gets lowballed and ownership doesn’t want to get the deal done, there’s no reason for him not to be re-signed.

From listening to his media spot today, if we were to make him a competitive offer and not be planning a burning to the ground rebuild, i think he would sign on.

 

[topshelf15]

Why? He has a crappy team around him now & he is playing like crap & says he would stay but he wants to get what he deserves. That sounds more like a money issue than a good team around him issue. His next contract will probably be his biggest payday of his career, it's bigger than hockey, it's a decision that will affect the rest of his life & that of his families. Of course, he is going to get what he is worth & maybe if he is lucky he may also go to a good team that has a shot at winning the cup. But if Melnyk pays him (which I doubt) he could stay here on a crappy team but still make his $100 million.

For Melnyk, I think it boils down to whether he wants to pay an outlandish amount of money to ONE player when the rest of the team sucks & probably aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Or would it make more sense to move him, get as much as you can for him & try & build another good winning team around some other players including some of the good young prospects that are coming like Brown, White, Formenton & Batherson. Sure the fans will hate him until the team starts winning again & then they will forget. That would be my guess.

The big money deal has its risks,even for us resigning EK ...There are some poison years that everybody here needs to understand will happen,and will make EK unmoveable,the exact same will happen if we resign Stone,and Duch as well...

So i get that maybe looking at moving EK is just smart buisness...But what isnt is constantly crying poor ,and giving potential suitors ammuntion to low ball you when you are always going to have to make deals like this at some point....EM needs to stop talking budget so much, with him wanting the team friendly deal all the time ....He has effectively nerfed the value of our high value players

 

[Jorge Garcia]

I think now it boils down to ..

1. Does Erik want to sign and be part of the 2 steps back 1 forward plan vs be traded to a team that can win sooner?
2. Does Dorion think he can resign Karlsson to the right $ figure vs trading him for a close to fair return?
3. How much the budget and Melnyk will play a role with either of their decisions

The Senators will be well on the way to a successful "retool" next year if Karlsson just plays like himself. That, along with healthy bottom-4 defenders and some half-decent goaltending, would put them right back in the playoffs.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

All good ... hope he's here for a very long time.. I'm out of this thread / discussion until there is something new. I am glad things have settled down and both Erik and Dorion have calmed the waters. All the ground has been covered.

 

[topshelf15]

This team is going nowhere with either Smith or Pageau as the second line centre. Most likely Pageau as I can see them trading Smith in the off season

I wondered earlier,if White was playing some center down in Belleville......Because i totally agree with what you are saying here ....

 

[Silencio]

That's true & I agree they will never let him just walk, but July 1st is coming fast & if they can't or won't re-sign him for what he wants then they will move him, right? That decision is right around the corner. If they can't move him this summer won't the return be less after the season starts next yr & as they move closer to next yr's deadline?

And if that is the case any team giving up a ton of assets to acquire EK this summer is probably going to want some guarantee that they can re-sign him or next contract soon in hand as Turris got. They will know what he wants to be re-signed & that will play into their decision whether to trade for him or not. Whoever gets him could end up with 6 or 9 yrs of EK on their top pairing, I wonder what that is worth?

Before last season I would've agreed, however Stamkos and Tavares have pretty much thrown out the "we have to trade our star upcoming UFA if they don't sign an extension on day 1" maxim.

 

[aragorn]

Before last season I would've agreed, however Stamkos and Tavares have pretty much thrown out the "we have to trade our star upcoming UFA if they don't sign an extension on day 1" maxim.

Maybe, we'll see.

 

[Sensung]

No, they added a #1 centre, and a vet depth defender, to a squad that was within a goal of the finals. Twisting the facts indeed, I think I'm done with you, your agenda is pretty clear, and nothing is going to get in the way of that.

So Oduya was an upgrade on Methot?

That "vet depth defender" took Methot's spot on the top pairing.

Who was MacArthur's replacement?

Which one of Wingels/Stalberg does Thompson replace? Where is the other replacement?

Melnyk pocketed the cash from the playoffs and expansion and is running an even lower budget team out there this season.

He promised the budget was only temporary during the retool and that he'd spend again when the team was competitive. In short, he's full of shit and a team that was poised to take the next step was sabotaged because the owner is cheap.

His cheapness has taken hope away from his team and this fanbase. Without hope a sports franchise has nothing.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

At this point, should this thread just be renamed into an all purpose Erik Karlsson trade rumour thread?

 

[Sensung]

Most important EK quote imo:

"When that time comes (re-signing), I hope that there is a place for me in the future and that this team is going in the direction tthat I would like to for us to have a chance to win in the near future."

If this team spends to the cap EK re-signs.

So in other words, we need new ownership.

 

[Sensinitis]

At this point, should this thread just be renamed into an all purpose Erik Karlsson trade rumour thread?

At this point, this thread should be locked imo.