TSN: Bob McKenzie says that the #2 overall pick is up for grabs
- Thread starter Horse McHindu
- Start date
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
It depends on Pettersson’s development. Management might break him in easy a la Bo Horvat 2014-2015. If that’s the case, then JV will play ahead of Pettersson.
If Pettersson makes significant strides right from the get go, then I think coaching and management will try and push him as a Center.
Either way - that should give JV a chance to have solid Top 6 minutes. Can JV play LW?
Pettersson is a better player than Virtanen right now, it would be crazy to play Virtanen ahead of him unless we're actively trying to lose, which would actually be fine I guess.
VIPettersson
Registered User
- Apr 9, 2018
- 610
- 573
I agree Virtanen has had his shot for a while now. Pettersson with all he has accomplished this season should definitely get a shot on the top lines before Virtanen. All of these points are moot however as it will come down to training camp and T.Green's opinion.
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
He likely is at this point, but we don’t know that for a fact. Let’s atleast see how Pettersson responds to the physical demands of the NHL. If his play warrants it, Pettersson will easily move ahead of Virtanen if they are both slated to play RW.
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
Final crazy offer and thought process for Svechnikov:
To Carolina: Gaudette, Virtanen, 2018 1st, 2019 1st, ONE of Demko or Dipietro
To Vancouver: 2nd overall (Andrei Svechnikov).
Again - I likely wouldn’t do this as a team in the Canucks’ position generally shouldn’t be trading so many young assets, but our Top 6 would very likely be set for 10+ YEARS.
Dahlen-Pettersson-Svechnikov
Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser (Baertschi easily replaceable when time is right).
That Top 6 gets errrrr done.
In goal? Yes - losing one of our promising goaltending prospects sucks, but we keep one of them. We then move forward with Markstrom + one of Demko or Dipietro moving forward.
In two years time, when Karlsson and Doughty become UFA’s, we go HARD after one of them. By the time Karlsson and Doughty become UFA’s, our young guys will have had enough time to develop......and hence, making Vancouver a desirable destination for Karlsson or Doughty.
Juolevi will also be a top 4 guy by this time, Tryamkin will have returned, and we can get Mike Green off the books (we offer him a 2 year high cap hit deal to come here before he leaves circa 2021).
Dahlen-Pettersson-Svechnikov
Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser
Leipsic-####-Goldobin
######-#####-####
Juolevi-Karlsson/Doughty
Tryamkin-#####
####-#####
Demko/Dipietro
Markstrom
To Carolina: Gaudette, Virtanen, 2018 1st, 2019 1st, ONE of Demko or Dipietro
To Vancouver: 2nd overall (Andrei Svechnikov).
Again - I likely wouldn’t do this as a team in the Canucks’ position generally shouldn’t be trading so many young assets, but our Top 6 would very likely be set for 10+ YEARS.
Dahlen-Pettersson-Svechnikov
Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser (Baertschi easily replaceable when time is right).
That Top 6 gets errrrr done.
In goal? Yes - losing one of our promising goaltending prospects sucks, but we keep one of them. We then move forward with Markstrom + one of Demko or Dipietro moving forward.
In two years time, when Karlsson and Doughty become UFA’s, we go HARD after one of them. By the time Karlsson and Doughty become UFA’s, our young guys will have had enough time to develop......and hence, making Vancouver a desirable destination for Karlsson or Doughty.
Juolevi will also be a top 4 guy by this time, Tryamkin will have returned, and we can get Mike Green off the books (we offer him a 2 year high cap hit deal to come here before he leaves circa 2021).
Dahlen-Pettersson-Svechnikov
Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser
Leipsic-####-Goldobin
######-#####-####
Juolevi-Karlsson/Doughty
Tryamkin-#####
####-#####
Demko/Dipietro
Markstrom
VancouverJagger
Not trying to fit in
I'm actually one of those that thinks this - he can play a very heavy game that is very suited to the playoffs. Remember Raffi Torres? Damn I loved that guy in the playoffs. I think Jake can bring a lot of that if and when we ever make the playoffs.........Maybe not the scoring but other elements that will be extremely valuable come playoff time........(and what did Nylander do other than disappear come playoffs?)
VancouverJagger
Not trying to fit in
That's a terrible trade for us - the biggest concern being our first round pick next year being included.
I think fair value would be something like this:
To Carolina: Gaudette, Demko, 2018 1st and 2019 2nd
To Vancouver: 2nd overall (Andrei Svechnikov).
Apparently they need help down the middle and goaltending so this addresses that.
Realistically I don't think that Carolina would take that though and I think all things considered it would be a pass for us as well. 3 of our most promising young prospects (including this years draft pic). I tend to think Demko is tracking much the same way Schneider did and is going to be a very solid goalie. We still don't know what we have in Gaudette however based on his willpower alone (and overcoming being a 5th round pick to get to where he has) I think that he has every shot at being a solid second line center. Plus whatever prospect we pick up this year (which is almost sure to be solid) and that's 3 promising pieces of a young core moving forward. We would probably have to throw in another piece like Virtanen to get this done but at that point I would definitely walk.
Sure but you’re remembering a 30 year old Torres who was signed a $1M contract as a UFA and was a depth player on a team that was carried by a trio of elite forwards and 7 deep defense.
If that’s what our 6th overall pick turns into - possibly for some other team - that’s very disappointing. You’d be far better off with Nylander’s 60 pt regular seasons and 4 pts in 7 playoff games while “disappearing”.
Normally that would be the perfect occasion for the Picard Facepalm but I will save you that.
First of all, there is a huge value difference between Demko and DiPietro, so I dont really understand you just make it either or. Secondly, while that might be what it will take why would the Canucks do that at all? The team is lacking prospects left and right and you want to deal 5 young pieces (one or both first rounders might turn out just as good as Svechnikov) for one?
Also as you might have noticed, the 2019 Draft is in Vancouver - you sure you want them to deal a potential first overall pick which they could draft in their own arena?
Your forward lines are already lacking 4 players, of the 8 you have mentioned only two have proven already that they are NHL players.
Your D is containing 3 players. 1 is a potential future UFA who will either re-signed by his current team or move to contender instead of a bottom feeding Canucks team. The 2nd is a 20 year old prospect with what appears to be at least a not so fast development line and the other one is under contract for 2 more years in Russia.
Might be just me but I think there are some holes in your plan.
I love svechnikov. He is a stud. However as we have seen, it takes 4 lines of depth. You are givng that up. I walk. Best I would offer is 1st this year, Virtanen, plus say a Kole Lind. That is it. It is not like they are not getting something solid back. I know that won't get it done, but he is not worth destroying your depth, when Dahlen can still fill that role. And TBH I am really hesitant to trade JV. I think he is about to coming into his own.
Ya that’s a weird package of various odds and ends that, ultimately, adds up to way too much on our end.
In the end, Svech just isn’t a huge need for us regardless of his talent level (and he is an elite talent). But RW is our one position of some strength and depth. It’s everywhere else we are a gaping black hole. That package would just make things infinitely worse.
Stay at 7, draft Dobson, Boqvist, or Wahlstrom and carry on building up the prospect pool. It’s all we should be doing right now (outside of adding more picks).
In the end, Svech just isn’t a huge need for us regardless of his talent level (and he is an elite talent). But RW is our one position of some strength and depth. It’s everywhere else we are a gaping black hole. That package would just make things infinitely worse.
Stay at 7, draft Dobson, Boqvist, or Wahlstrom and carry on building up the prospect pool. It’s all we should be doing right now (outside of adding more picks).
Just A Bit Outside
Playoffs??!
- Mar 6, 2010
- 16,580
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Simple answer: this team is currently not in a position to make an offer worthwhile for Carolina to give up the #2.
Draft is in Van next year. Wait till next year to make a splash if possible.
Otherwise, just stay the course and if anything, make a trade or two to acquire more picks.
Draft is in Van next year. Wait till next year to make a splash if possible.
Otherwise, just stay the course and if anything, make a trade or two to acquire more picks.
Pastor Of Muppetz
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2017
- 26,184
- 16,070
At the tail end of last season ..Virtanen demonstrated that he can singlehandedly control the play ..We saw glimpses of that,which we had never seen before,and that is why a lot of the fanbase are more enthusiastic about his future.
Virtanen will never put up point totals like Ehlers or Nylander,his game is based on his speed and power...I can see how the 'people' based on what they saw last season would think that Jake Virtanen would be a force in the playoffs.
Having said that,he needs to demonstrate that he can be a consistent,productive player throughout an entire season..We haven't seen that yet.
VancouverJagger
Not trying to fit in
Yes, yes we all know this was a horrible pick for us *insert eye roll................I'm trying to point out that in 3 years when we are most likely pondering playoffs again Jake will most likely be viewed as a lot of fans favourite playoff performer (definitely not something Leafs fans are saying about Nylander). Regardless of what Torres was paid he was definitely my favourite Canuck in the playoffs........he DESTROYED people regularly and made me proud to be a fan. Was quite sad when they let him go for free over 400 or 500k a year or so.
And I’m not saying Jake can’t be useful. I am saying he is:
a) Less useful than a 60 pt regular season scorer who “disappears” but still scores 4 pts per 7 playoff games.
b) The kind of player you can get from UFA to fill specific role or need for reasonably cheap i.e. like Gillis did with Torres.
I have no problem if people say they like Virtanen or his type of game. Personally I do too, though it helps if I ignore the price we (over)paid to get it. I do disagree when people start to say this bottom 6 role is more valuable than what a scorer - even a “soft” scorer - brings to the table. You need talent to win in the playoffs first and foremost. Reverse the jerseys and try arguing for that trade. Would you support trading Elias Pettersson for Lias Andersson this summer? Because the same type of thinking goes on there as well.
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
Jake has yet to have a pro season where he has put up more than 0.30 PPG. Math.
How many forwards go on to be top 6 forwards after having put up no better than a 0.29 PPG in any pro season (NHL or AHL) by their draft +5 year? Jake is entering his Draft +5 year and has been awful offensively. And I'm talking about players who were drafted and played North American pro hockey. Players who stayed in Russia or Sweden for several years obviously are in leagues that aren't comparable.
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
First of all, the Canucks are more than 3 years away from pondering the playoffs. (Funny though how a lot of people who were happy about Benning and the stupid moves he made used the "we don't want to be Edmonton" excuse, yet now the time frame appears to extend to 6-7 years without the playoffs. Isn't that exactly what Edmonton went through? LOL).
It honestly wouldn't surprise me at all if Virtanen weren't even a Canuck in 3 years. If he is he'll certainly be a 3rd/4th liner. Comparing Jake Virtanen to Raffi Torres when we passed on Nylander and Ehlers to select him is just sad.
Virtanen went three straight seasons without getting more than 20 points. So he is definitely a future 20 goal scorer and a few 30 goal seasons? We have to be realistic. There are not a lot of players that went three straight years without scoring much and never completely dominated any league all of sudden becomes a goal scorer.
When you describe Virtanen I noticed you didn't say anything about common qualities of a goal scorer like good hands, creativity,hockey sense. It takes more than speed and being physical to be a goal scorer. Aside from the shot Antoski had great speed and physical as well. Virtanen shot is good but its no where elite. Boeser shot is dangerous from far away and Virtanen is not. Also you need to find a way to be in quality area to use that shot. Also be able to get that shot by a few players. Boeser can do that, Virtanen can't. One hell of shot is Boeser level.
I will admit I do see improvement but its what user Canafan said. He went From D student to C'-. He is improving but it is not good enough. Virtnanen had pretty much the same ppg two season ago. Considering the fact that he got some time with the Sedins and scoring is up this year. You can make an argument he didn't improve offensively at all. I will admit he got better defensively and he Is more involve. But without increase production. Can we really say he made a lot of improvement? Also any Virtanen thread people never talk all the mistakes he is making on the ice. Horrible pass vs Dal on the pp that led to shorthanded goal. Loses puck at center ice vs Col and col scored the game winning goal. He is making these mistakes because he still has a lot problems processing the game.
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
Frankie Blueberries
Allergic to draft picks
- Jan 27, 2016
- 9,194
- 10,669
Yeah, it's hard to fathom a scenario that doesn't involve 7th overall being packaged with one of Boeser, Pettersson, or Horvat.
Perhaps a 3-way trade involving Tanev, Edler, or Juolevi and 7th overall where Carolina receives a high-end forward and the 3rd team receives a defencemen would work out, but those happen so rarely.
Perhaps a 3-way trade involving Tanev, Edler, or Juolevi and 7th overall where Carolina receives a high-end forward and the 3rd team receives a defencemen would work out, but those happen so rarely.
Bitz and Bites
Registered User
Trading away what little prospect depth we have in other positions for a RW (which we actually have depth in) is ludicrous.
Aside from that,is there really that much of a drop off from Svech to someone like Wahlstrom (who should be available at 7) that we need to trade off potential key pieces like Virtanen,Juolevi,Lind,pick 37,etc.Not in my book.
Even if we did need another winger,I'd take Wahlstrom and keep our other prospects,especially for a Russian who is a flight risk.
As far as I can tell,Carolina's main needs are a #1 center and the closest we have to that is Horvat and I wouldn't trade him straight up for Svech,never mind the #7 pick as well.
Aside from that,is there really that much of a drop off from Svech to someone like Wahlstrom (who should be available at 7) that we need to trade off potential key pieces like Virtanen,Juolevi,Lind,pick 37,etc.Not in my book.
Even if we did need another winger,I'd take Wahlstrom and keep our other prospects,especially for a Russian who is a flight risk.
As far as I can tell,Carolina's main needs are a #1 center and the closest we have to that is Horvat and I wouldn't trade him straight up for Svech,never mind the #7 pick as well.
BROCK HUGHES
Registered User
Fire Benning
diaper filled piss baby
When your offer gets laughed at by Wadell, you know you're lowballing.
