TSN: Bob McKenzie says that the #2 overall pick is up for grabs

[Breakers]

Svechnikov costs Pettersson

simple as that.

 

[NucksRock]

Svechnikov costs Pettersson

simple as that.

and no way is that worth it. You've got a kid who just beat Forsberg and Nilson's records vs men or a kid, who sure may be talented but certainly hasn't proven that level of talent nor is generational player. By all accounts, Peterson may, again 'may' end up being a generational player we stole at #5 - his comps suggest it.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Indeed and he:

1. Plays with Matthews and gets alot of freebies - you're fooling yourself if you think he would have even close to the same number of points in Vacouver - both he and Ehlers are major beneficiaries of playing with alot more talent. Not to mention, Babcock has given him primo ice time (and PP time) despite what all in Toronto know are his major defensive deficiencies. Jake is being asked to learn to play D first to earn his ice - which he showed he was over the last 20. They want a 200 ft player from Jake, toronto seems content with an offensive floater who plays to the outside but complements Mathews, particularly on the PP).

2. Game 7, 2 mins to go, down 2 vs Boston, he could have recovered a puck in the offensive zone if he was willing to take a hit from Chara, I remember that as the moment I laughed at how much I'd rather have Virtanen. This kid is soft as butter and a great complementary player to Matthews, but plays to the outside and is never going to be a difference maker in the playoffs.

3. I live in toronto and watched about 40 Leafs games and more (40+) canucks games this season and last as well. I have watched both a great deal.

Do Nylander and Ehlers have more offensive skill, for certain, are they more 'valuable' to a team, and OUR team, no chance (assuming of course Jake continues to develop, only a few more years will decide that).

Virtanen is entering his Draft +5 season. How many more years is it going to take for you to see what a bunch of us already know that he is a draft bust? Do you need to see him for a decade to figure that out?

Can he be a useful player? Sure. In the way that Raffi Torres was a useful player for his career. But is he a legitimate top 6 forward? Let alone a top line forward? Hell no. Not even close. But hey, if you value players like Jake Virtanen over Nylander and Ehlers is definitely explains why you are a huge Benning supporter. The same GM who built the worst team in hockey over the last 3 year period despite spending to the cap and trading away futures for current pieces to push for the playoffs. He has a problem with evaluating talent too.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think the McKenzie comment is getting blown out of proportion. Of course the #2OA pick is going to be available, but only in a deal which is too good to be true. Other than trading down 1-2 spots if they feel those guys are all similar, I don't see them moving it. Here's what Waddell said over a week ago:

"Theres no doubt... uhh *pause*.. I think we will be... uhh *pause*... We'd have to be put in a situation where we'd have to be completely blown away. I think the #2 pick is very, very valuable. You take that asset. It's very rare where you get the chance to take a Star. We could trade that pick right now and get some good players that would help the team for the next 3-4 years but you wouldn't get a star.

I've told a lot of teams - and they've all called - I said, you know, if you guys want to take the time and put a package together... I'll review everything you've got. But I've told everybody, it's gonna have to be a package that I'm gonna have to look at and say "WOW, they would do THIS?!?" Otherwise, we are comfortable taking this pick".

He also 2 days ago:

"Obviously getting the No. 2 pick in the NHL draft coming up probably means we’re going to be able to put a player right on our team. If we keep the pick, which it looks like that’s the way it’s going right now – that’s exciting. We have Marty Necas, who we drafted last year in the first round, that we feel is going to make the jump this year to the NHL. We’ve got Aho and a few of our other young guys."

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Svechnikov costs Pettersson

simple as that.

Rule of thumb... go with the sons', dins' bergs' and Qvists'.

... pass on the kovs', novs', ovs' and chevs'.

 

[Sleestak Nation]

And once again, this team needs bodies and depth in so many places that giving up more assets than they get back would be a step backwards. There is not a player available at 2nd OA based on almost all current evaluations where any GM should give up the types of assets it would take to move up to 2nd OA, even if that was just 7th OA and Demko. That is a net loss, no matter how one spins it.

 

[ChefBoiRD]

Every year, ya hear the same thing from some GM holding a top 5 - “ we are open for business” but rarely if ever do we see those high picks moving.

Not happening

 

[Horse McHindu]

Every year, ya hear the same thing from some GM holding a top 5 - “ we are open for business” but rarely if ever do we see those high picks moving.

Not happening

Micky falling off his roof again is more likely than a Top 5 pick being traded.

 

[Peter10]

Micky falling off his roof again is more likely than a Top 5 pick being traded.

Says the guy who opened this very topic.

 

[VancouverJagger]

You should not be excited to see Virtanen in the playoffs.
He had 1 point in 10 games with Utica the last time he played playoff hockey.

Just for arguments sake lets assume you are correct about Nylander in the playoffs.
There is no proof that Virtanen won't dissapear in the playoffs too. Its just an untested theory.
If we look at JVs production historically in the playoffs he seems to have had 1 year where he didn't dissapear and rest of the years he didn't produce anything.

Now if we dont just for arguments sake assume you guys are right.
Nylanders production has never dropped in the playoffs...

There is no case here to be made. At all.

Go and ask Leafs fans how they feel about his production in the playoffs and see what they say..............Hmmmmm............

 

[CanaFan]

Go and ask Leafs fans how they feel about his production in the playoffs and see what they say..............Hmmmmm............

I’m sure they’re disappointed with lots of their players. Nylander, Matthews, Kadri, Gardiner, the list is long.

Why don’t you ask them if they’d like to trade their disappointing Nylander for hasn’t-failed-in-playoffs-yet Virtanen.

It should be funny.

 

[VancouverJagger]

I’m sure they’re disappointed with lots of their players. Nylander, Matthews, Kadri, Gardiner, the list is long.

Why don’t you ask them if they’d like to trade their disappointing Nylander for hasn’t-failed-in-playoffs-yet Virtanen.

It should be funny.

[mod] And yes pretty sure Nylander is close to the top of the disappointment list.

Anyhoo...........On the bright side at least some of us can live with rose coloured glasses on can be happy that we haven't yet had to be disappointed by Jakes performances in the playoffs................

This little thing called optimism..........some of you might want to look it up...........

 

[racerjoe]

[mod] And yes pretty sure Nylander is close to the top of the disappointment list.

Anyhoo...........On the bright side at least some of us can live with rose coloured glasses on can be happy that we haven't yet had to be disappointed by Jakes performances in the playoffs................

This little thing called optimism..........some of you might want to look it up...........

Yeah 1 assist in 10 games at lower level sure says rising to the occasion!

 

[Peter10]

My neighbour and I both got a lottery ticket. The drawing for his was already and he has won $1m, I havent checked mine yet but I still rather have my ticket instead of his because I could still win the $20m jackpot with it and be better off than my neighbour and his lousy $1m

 

[vancityluongo]

My neighbour and I both got a lottery ticket. The drawing for his was already and he has won $1m, I havent checked mine yet but I still rather have my ticket instead of his because I could still win the $20m jackpot with it and be better off than my neighbour and his lousy $1m

Agreed fully with the logic, but by having your neighbour win a minor prize that's essentially what people (wrongly) spin about trying to acquire draft picks at the the deadline instead of waiver level players like Motte.

IMO this is like there were four prizes available in a draw with a 100 tickets. Three winners have already been drawn. We bought 25 tickets and only have 1 left - 24 have already been dismissed as not winners. In total, 75 tickets have been drawn. We went from having a quarter of the tickets with 4 prizes available to 1/25 tickets with only one available. And people somehow think that we have better odds now.

 

[SgtToody]

Of course Waddell would want to keep the No. 2 overall pick in play. Nightmares of Patrik Stefan likely still haunt him...

 

[Horse McHindu]

Says the guy who opened this very topic.

A few points:

1) My Micky comment was an inside joke with said poster from another board. Not sure why you felt the need to intervene here.

2) You once again assume that I’m 100% behind my proposed idea instead of realizing that I’m simply trying to facilitate discussion by expressing a viewpoint.

 

[Horse McHindu]

First of all, the Canucks are more than 3 years away from pondering the playoffs. (Funny though how a lot of people who were happy about Benning and the stupid moves he made used the "we don't want to be Edmonton" excuse, yet now the time frame appears to extend to 6-7 years without the playoffs. Isn't that exactly what Edmonton went through? LOL).

It honestly wouldn't surprise me at all if Virtanen weren't even a Canuck in 3 years. If he is he'll certainly be a 3rd/4th liner. Comparing Jake Virtanen to Raffi Torres when we passed on Nylander and Ehlers to select him is just sad.

Edmonton missed the playoffs for 11 years straight.

Many of the Benning supporters have argued that the Canucks will make the playoffs again sometime between 2019 and 2021 (5-7 year rebuild). The rebuild started in 2014 when Luongo was traded.

My prediction is that we make the playoffs again during the 2019-2020 season.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

[mod] And yes pretty sure Nylander is close to the top of the disappointment list.

Anyhoo...........On the bright side at least some of us can live with rose coloured glasses on can be happy that we haven't yet had to be disappointed by Jakes performances in the playoffs................

This little thing called optimism..........some of you might want to look it up...........

Ah so you admit you wete beinh dishonest about the situation to make your self happy.

You should have started with that. Would have saved all of us a lot of time trying to debate the issue.

 

[Trelane]

The Canucks don't have a single defensive prospect who has elite potential, let alone anyone who is in the same universe as Lidstrom. The Canucks also don't have anyone close to being what Pavel Datsyuk was. I would even say we don't have anyone who will be what Zetterberg was when you factor in how good he was defensively.

Terrible comparison.

As if anything of the sort was suggested.

Now, fact remains Bo was Memorial Cup MVP in his draft year, OJ at 17 was the best D (however briefly) at a best on best tournament for 19 year-olds, and Pettersson has dwarfed anything Zetterbugh or Datsyuk accomplished at the same age. Add Boeser and it is not unreasonable to think in time we might have Sedins and Kesler equivalents up front. With prospects and players early in their careers we must necessarily talk of potential. I did make some effort to show the comparison went only as far as requisite building blocs for an elite team.

There are all kinds. Some have only two elite forwards (Det) instead of the 3-4 commonly thought of as must. Some have only one true top 6 centre (Hawks), some have no #1 D (Nucks, Pens less Letang, Vegas?), and some have mediocre goalies who vastly outperform for stretches. But none to my knowledge have the monster forward to D skill disparity the Nucks have among young players. A point, I think, we can agree on.

 

[Horse McHindu]

@CanaFan,

I think somewhere in this thread, you mentioned that “going after Svechnikov would not be the right move for the Canucks,” (or something to that effect).

Why do you feel that way?

I just think that in a hypothetical situation where the Canucks *could* pull off a trade for Svech *without* having to trade one of Horvat, Boeser, or Pettersson, you absolutely make that deal.

2018 1st, 2019 1st, Gaudette, Virtanen, and Dipietro would be a crazy offer, but I think Carolina would strongly consider that.

From a Canucks standpoint.......I completely understand the argument that the Canucks shouldn’t be giving up so many young pieces, given where they are in the rebuilding process.

However - I still think it’s extremely difficult to ignore the idea of having Pettersson, Svechnikov, Horvat, and Boeser anchoring two separate scoring lines for 10+ years. Through drafting, free agency, or whatever, it should be pretty easy to get two other LW’ers on that top 6 to ride shotgun.

Hell - we might even have that now with guys like Dahlen, Baertschi, Goldobin, Leipsic, and Granlund in our system.

If the Canucks could somehow pry away Svechnikov from Carolina without having to give up any of Pettersson, Boeser, or Horvat, you don’t think it would benefit Vancouver?

 

[RobertKron]

@CanaFan,

I think somewhere in this thread, you mentioned that “going after Svechnikov would not be the right move for the Canucks,” (or something to that effect).

Why do you feel that way?

I just think that in a hypothetical situation where the Canucks *could* pull off a trade for Svech *without* having to trade one of Horvat, Boeser, or Pettersson, you absolutely make that deal.

2018 1st, 2019 1st, Gaudette, Virtanen, and Dipietro would be a crazy offer, but I think Carolina would strongly consider that.

From a Canucks standpoint.......I completely understand the argument that the Canucks shouldn’t be giving up so many young pieces, given where they are in the rebuilding process.

However - I still think it’s extremely difficult to ignore the idea of having Pettersson, Svechnikov, Horvat, and Boeser anchoring two separate scoring lines for 10+ years. Through drafting, free agency, or whatever, it should be pretty easy to get two other LW’ers on that top 6 to ride shotgun.

Hell - we might even have that now with guys like Dahlen, Baertschi, Goldobin, Leipsic, and Granlund in our system.

If the Canucks could somehow pry away Svechnikov from Carolina without having to give up any of Pettersson, Boeser, or Horvat, you don’t think it would benefit Vancouver?

If the Canucks could develop their social media guy into an elite defenseman and sign him to a twelve year league minimum contract that would also really benefit them, but it’s still probably not worth pursuing very intently.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

If the Canucks could develop their social media guy into an elite defenseman and sign him to a twelve year league minimum contract that would also really benefit them, but it’s still probably not worth pursuing very intently.

I dont know. The guy with the multiple accounts here trolling us seems like a hard worker.

 

[Shareefruck]

Ah so you admit you wete beinh dishonest about the situation to make your self happy.

You should have started with that. Would have saved all of us a lot of time trying to debate the issue.

This is easily one of my biggest pet peeves.

The only valid reason to be positive or negative about something is whether or not you think it's likely to be true. Period.

The moment someone is stupid enough to imply that there's some other inherent good or benefit to optimism that should also be taken into consideration and serve as motivation, any debate or disagreement is instantly over-- that admission inherently throws out any claim to credibility, and reveals an inability to argue in good faith.

It's completely dumb-founding to me why so many people unapologetically choose to use that as the basis of a snarky retort, even if that's what they secretly think. It's such a fundamentally self-defeating comeback.

It makes about as much sense as telling someone that it's better to avoid positivity to spare yourself of disappointment, while you're trying to argue about something being negative. You might as well just come right out and tell people that you're intentionally trying to be incorrect in everything that you say.

 

[rypper]

The rebuild started in 2014 when Luongo was traded.

Uhh say what now???