TSN: Bob McKenzie says that the #2 overall pick is up for grabs

[Dab]

Well considering they could have traded Schneider (26) for another roster player rather than a draft pick that isn’t even 18 years old, that’s pretty much the definition of rebuild. Schneider was hardly an “excess goalie”, he was their current #1 and only dealt because they couldn’t deal the guy they actually wanted to. He was not like a typical backup being traded for odds and ends.

I’m not sure they would have gotten better value with a player than the #9, is my point. That was a straight value play.

 

[CanaFan]

I’m not sure they would have gotten better value with a player than the #9, is my point. That was a straight value play.

We don’t really know tbh. But trading an in-prime star goalie for an undeveloped 17 year old is a textbook rebuild move. That’s my point.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

We don’t really know tbh. But trading an in-prime star goalie for an undeveloped 17 year old is a textbook rebuild move. That’s my point.

Im maybe just playing the devil's advocate here a bit, but draft-picks are the closest thing NHL has to money. When a player for player deal isn't available that makes sense for both parties, draft-picks play the role of currency.

 

[The Designer]

I still think we should have taken the deal with the oilers and got back their 1st, 2nd and good young player.

 

[CanaFan]

Im maybe just playing the devil's advocate here a bit, but draft-picks are the closest thing NHL has to money. When a player for player deal isn't available that makes sense for both parties, draft-picks play the role of currency.

Possibly but we just don’t know that players weren’t available so it seems more reasonable to take the deal at face value.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I dunno if Gillis wanted a rebuild or retool but trading 26 year old Cory Schneider for an unknown draft pick is the most rebuild move possible. It’s insane to suggest it’s a retool move. You are literally setting your team back 4-5 years in terms of its current competitiveness.

Now trading picks for 21-23 year old “prospects”, those fit the MO of a retool since you’re shaving years off the development time of your draft picks.

objectively, suddenly trading your young goalie of the future for a draft pick when the canucks were where they were does not look like a rebuild move either. he was one of the youngest key players on the team. logically a retool or rebuild at that time includes schneider, or at least a number of older players would go before he goes.

what it looks like is a forced move with an off ice back story, and that gives us no insight into where gillis saw the team.

 

[CanaFan]

objectively, suddenly trading your young goalie of the future for a draft pick when the canucks were where they were does not look like a rebuild move either. he was one of the youngest key players on the team. logically a retool or rebuild at that time includes schneider, or at least a number of older players would go before he goes.

what it looks like is a forced move with an off ice back story, and that gives us no insight into where gillis saw the team.

The decision to trade Schneider was forced.

The decision to seek a draft pick instead of another 26 year old was not.

 

[F A N]

The decision to trade Schneider was forced.

The decision to seek a draft pick instead of another 26 year old was not.

I don't think the decision to trade Schneider was forced as much as the decision to trade a goaltender was forced. I think they could have traded Luongo but refused to retain salary and accept offers that they felt were not good value trades. It was a situation where Gillis liked both goalies and there wasn't a ton of difference separating the two besides age. The value for Luongo in Gillis' eyes wasn't there. The value for Schneider was there. So he traded Schneider. How many of us would have traded Schneider instead of Luongo all else being equal? None of us? But there was a point where we would have.

Gillis believed in sustainable winning. The Detroit model. He's bound to make moves that look like pure rebuild moves, but that doesn't mean he believes in the type of rebuilding that most here (including me) wanted here when Benning took over. I'm pretty sure that Gillis believed the Canucks were still a contender. It's kind of like Yzerman trading Connolly for draft picks. Clearly the Lightning weren't rebuilding.

 

[CanaFan]

I don't think the decision to trade Schneider was forced as much as the decision to trade a goaltender was forced. I think they could have traded Luongo but refused to retain salary and accept offers that they felt were not good value trades. It was a situation where Gillis liked both goalies and there wasn't a ton of difference separating the two besides age. The value for Luongo in Gillis' eyes wasn't there. The value for Schneider was there. So he traded Schneider. How many of us would have traded Schneider instead of Luongo all else being equal? None of us? But there was a point where we would have.

Gillis believed in sustainable winning. The Detroit model. He's bound to make moves that look like pure rebuild moves, but that doesn't mean he believes in the type of rebuilding that most here (including me) wanted here when Benning took over. I'm pretty sure that Gillis believed the Canucks were still a contender. It's kind of like Yzerman trading Connolly for draft picks. Clearly the Lightning weren't rebuilding.

Yes, that’s what I meant. The need to trade a goalie was there and Schneider was the only one that was available for a suitable return. The type of return that Gillis chose to target is interesting, considering they still appeared to be in a competitive window, albeit near the end.

The difference in your example above is that Schneider was a major piece of the team’s core and could have returned immediate help while Connolly was a bit piece and likely would have only returned a similar bit piece.

 

[NucksRock]

I still think we should have taken the deal with the oilers and got back their 1st, 2nd and good young player.

yep and that would have prevented them getting McDavid as well

 

[krutovsdonut]

The decision to trade Schneider was forced.

The decision to seek a draft pick instead of another 26 year old was not.

did he seek a draft pick, or did he take a draft pick because it was the best value offered?

the avs paid washington a first for varlamov. were the caps rebuilding?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

did he seek a draft pick, or did he take a draft pick because it was the best value offered?

the avs paid washington a first for varlamov. were the caps rebuilding?

Fair point.

 

[CanaFan]

did he seek a draft pick, or did he take a draft pick because it was the best value offered?

the avs paid washington a first for varlamov. were the caps rebuilding?

I don’t know the answer to that, but I feel it’s reaonable to assume there were several teams interested in a goalie of Schneider’s age, quality, and price. We’ll never know if the 9th was the best offer - chances are it was or at least was close to the next best offer - but the point remains that they chose a draft pick that wouldn’t help them meaningfully for 3-4 years on a team with an evaporating compete window. If it’s even close and you value competing in that window then you don’t take the draft pick. Hell, very few people actually felt that the 9th was sufficient value at the time which may suggest Gillis prioritized getting a pick to the detriment of the total value. IIRC the other known competing offer was from Edmonton and centred around the 7th pick. If true, then that’s two deals built around draft picks and not roster players.

 

[F A N]

Yes, that’s what I meant. The need to trade a goalie was there and Schneider was the only one that was available for a suitable return. The type of return that Gillis chose to target is interesting, considering they still appeared to be in a competitive window, albeit near the end.

The difference in your example above is that Schneider was a major piece of the team’s core and could have returned immediate help while Connolly was a bit piece and likely would have only returned a similar bit piece.

Schneider was supposedly a major piece of the team's core, but with Luongo there, Schneider's presence on the team over the next 3-4 years wasn't that crucial.

I don’t know the answer to that, but I feel it’s reaonable to assume there were several teams interested in a goalie of Schneider’s age, quality, and price. We’ll never know if the 9th was the best offer - chances are it was or at least was close to the next best offer - but the point remains that they chose a draft pick that wouldn’t help them meaningfully for 3-4 years on a team with an evaporating compete window. If it’s even close and you value competing in that window then you don’t take the draft pick. Hell, very few people actually felt that the 9th was sufficient value at the time which may suggest Gillis prioritized getting a pick to the detriment of the total value. IIRC the other known competing offer was from Edmonton and centred around the 7th pick. If true, then that’s two deals built around draft picks and not roster players.

If Benning did the Schneider deal, he would have been hammered here on these boards more so than Gillis was. There were strong rumors that Edmonton offered more (at the very least they offered the 7th overall pick, which would have GUARANTEED them Horvat or one of the guys drafted before him. At 9 there was no guarantee.

Regardless, I understand your point. I think what I disagree with is your perception that Gillis wanting to rebuild. It's kind of like having traded picks away and wanting to recoup some picks. At some point, you need to restock the cupboards. Keep in mind that they did trade away a 2nd that year for Derek Roy, a pick they could have used to select Yan-Pavel Laplante.

 

[CanaFan]

Schneider was supposedly a major piece of the team's core, but with Luongo there, Schneider's presence on the team over the next 3-4 years wasn't that crucial.



If Benning did the Schneider deal, he would have been hammered here on these boards more so than Gillis was. There were strong rumors that Edmonton offered more (at the very least they offered the 7th overall pick, which would have GUARANTEED them Horvat or one of the guys drafted before him. At 9 there was no guarantee.

Regardless, I understand your point. I think what I disagree with is your perception that Gillis wanting to rebuild. It's kind of like having traded picks away and wanting to recoup some picks. At some point, you need to restock the cupboards. Keep in mind that they did trade away a 2nd that year for Derek Roy, a pick they could have used to select Yan-Pavel Laplante.

It wasn’t my point that Gillis wanted to rebuild, that was someone else. My point was specifically that the Schneider deal fits the parameters of a rebuild-oriented deal. I have no idea if it was meant to signal the start of a rebuild or just a one off. I am pretty agnostic on that whole debate.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

If Benning did the Schneider deal, he would have been hammered here on these boards more so than Gillis was. There were strong rumors that Edmonton offered more (at the very least they offered the 7th overall pick, which would have GUARANTEED them Horvat or one of the guys drafted before him. At 9 there was no guarantee.

Benning in his first year, probably would have gotten more slack.
The Benning we know today, you are absolutely correct.