TSN: Bob McKenzie says that the #2 overall pick is up for grabs

Horse McHindu

They call me Horse.....
Jun 21, 2014
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Uhh say what now???

That’s how I see it.

Think about the 2015 trade deadline when the Canucks were actually in a playoff spot and/or were in the thick of things:

Did Benning/Linden trade any 1st or 2nd round picks for rental players? Or even *any* picks for pure rental players? Absolutely not.

Trust me: Benning and Linden knew where this team was when they took over in the Summer of 2014. They knew exactly what kind of mess they would have to clean up thanks to Gillis’ inept drafting, along with his careless use of handing out NTC’s/NMC’s to certain players.

A successful rebuild will take 5-7 years. The rebuild started in 2014. IF the Canucks aren’t a playoff team after the 2020-2021 season ends, then I’ll fully admit to the abject failure of this regime.

From what I see now however, they are trending in the right way and have cleaned up many of Gillis’ mistakes. The Canucks will miss playoffs this coming season, but will make the playoffs in 2019-2020. In 2020/2021, they will be a worthy 2nd round calibre team.
 
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F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
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That’s how I see it.

Think about the 2015 trade deadline when the Canucks were actually in a playoff spot and/or were in the thick of things:

Did Benning/Linden trade any 1st or 2nd round picks for rental players? Or even *any* picks for pure rental players? Absolutely not.

Trust me: Benning and Linden knew where this team was when they took over in the Summer of 2014. They knew exactly what kind of mess they would have to clean up thanks to Gillis’ inept drafting, along with his careless use of handing out NTC’s/NMC’s to certain players.

A successful rebuild will take 5-7 years. The rebuild started in 2014. IF the Canucks aren’t a playoff team after the 2020-2021 season ends, then I’ll fully admit to the abject failure of this regime.

From what I see now however, they are trending in the right way and have cleaned up many of Gillis’ mistakes. The Canucks will miss playoffs this coming season, but will make the playoffs in 2019-2020. In 2020/2021, they will be a worthy 2nd round calibre team.

I don't think Gillis believed in rebuilding. He believed in retooling. I think it started with him trading Schneider.

Benning did know where this team was at when they took over. They believed that a few additions and a new system would get the Canucks back into the playoffs. They were right. Unfortunately, many of the retool moves didn't work as well as they had hoped and so the rebuild option was forced upon them. The plan was always to make the playoffs while retooling/getting younger.
 

Peter10

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Dec 7, 2003
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That’s how I see it.

Think about the 2015 trade deadline when the Canucks were actually in a playoff spot and/or were in the thick of things:

Did Benning/Linden trade any 1st or 2nd round picks for rental players? Or even *any* picks for pure rental players? Absolutely not.

Trust me: Benning and Linden knew where this team was when they took over in the Summer of 2014. They knew exactly what kind of mess they would have to clean up thanks to Gillis’ inept drafting, along with his careless use of handing out NTC’s/NMC’s to certain players.

A successful rebuild will take 5-7 years. The rebuild started in 2014. IF the Canucks aren’t a playoff team after the 2020-2021 season ends, then I’ll fully admit to the abject failure of this regime.

From what I see now however, they are trending in the right way and have cleaned up many of Gillis’ mistakes. The Canucks will miss playoffs this coming season, but will make the playoffs in 2019-2020. In 2020/2021, they will be a worthy 2nd round calibre team.

Hm, he traded a former 1st round pick (McCann) and a 2nd rounder for a useless Gudbranson, not really a rental but not a move for a rebuilding team but anyway, if not trading your first round picks is rebuilding now then I guess that means about 20 teams in the league are rebuilding then.

Of course that is not even mentioning that Benning tried to trade for Lucic in 2015 which would have required to include a first round pick (likely the pick used to draft Boeser), he tried to trade for PK Subban which would have cost the Juolevi pick + another high end young player (Horvat is a likely option). Signing Eriksson in 2016 to a buyout proof contract including a NMC, trying to sign Lucic to a similar stupid deal.
 

wavaxa2

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Sep 24, 2010
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Reading the Every Hurricanes player except Aho is available thread in the Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk section just made me sad. The Canes have a lot of nice players available that could help a team, but the Canucks have so little available that another team would want that it makes a trade with Carolina difficult. Trading any of the few pieces that are valuable (Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson, Tanev, Demko, 7th pick) would just rip more gaping holes in an already hole-y lineup, or cause too much draining of the prospect pool. Not much to be done, other than to hold on to and try acquire picks/prospects, and keep building the prospect pool.
 

Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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This draft is kind of flat after Dahlin. Why would any top 10 team trade up, considering they will likely get just as good a player at their spot as at two? Sure the later top 10 picks will take more time to develop than Svechnikov, but that guy might even become better.
 

go comets

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Jul 10, 2013
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Reading the Every Hurricanes player except Aho is available thread in the Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk section just made me sad. The Canes have a lot of nice players available that could help a team, but the Canucks have so little available that another team would want that it makes a trade with Carolina difficult. Trading any of the few pieces that are valuable (Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson, Tanev, Demko, 7th pick) would just rip more gaping holes in an already hole-y lineup, or cause too much draining of the prospect pool. Not much to be done, other than to hold on to and try acquire picks/prospects, and keep building the prospect pool.
My experience is that almost every player on every team is available if someone wants to overpay....
 
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me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
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That’s how I see it.

Think about the 2015 trade deadline when the Canucks were actually in a playoff spot and/or were in the thick of things:

Did Benning/Linden trade any 1st or 2nd round picks for rental players? Or even *any* picks for pure rental players? Absolutely not.

Trust me: Benning and Linden knew where this team was when they took over in the Summer of 2014. They knew exactly what kind of mess they would have to clean up thanks to Gillis’ inept drafting, along with his careless use of handing out NTC’s/NMC’s to certain players.

Lucic attempted trade.
Subban attempted trade.
Not trading Miller.
Not trading at deadlines.
Etc

Benny was not rebuilding, he was trying to sell the team's futures for immediate help.
 

me2

Go ahead foot
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Make my day.
I don't think Gillis believed in rebuilding. He believed in retooling. I think it started with him trading Schneider.

Benning did know where this team was at when they took over. They believed that a few additions and a new system would get the Canucks back into the playoffs. They were right. Unfortunately, many of the retool moves didn't work as well as they had hoped and so the rebuild option was forced upon them. The plan was always to make the playoffs while retooling/getting younger.
No, it is clear Gillis wanted a proper rebuild. He got fired for it. Ownership bright in prior that wanted to keep competing.
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
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I don't think Gillis believed in rebuilding. He believed in retooling. I think it started with him trading Schneider.

Benning did know where this team was at when they took over. They believed that a few additions and a new system would get the Canucks back into the playoffs. They were right. Unfortunately, many of the retool moves didn't work as well as they had hoped and so the rebuild option was forced upon them. The plan was always to make the playoffs while retooling/getting younger.

The retool was a colossal failure because of Benning's piss poor execution, and the fact that none of his pro scouting targets worked out, because he's bad at his job.
 

PuckMunchkin

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Dec 13, 2006
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No, it is clear Gillis wanted a proper rebuild. He got fired for it. Ownership bright in prior that wanted to keep competing.

This is what I've understood as well.
But I can't recall where this info comes from?

This is easily one of my biggest pet peeves.

The only valid reason to be positive or negative about something is whether or not you think it's likely to be true. Period.

The moment someone is stupid enough to imply that there's some other inherent good or benefit to optimism that should also be taken into consideration and serve as motivation, any debate or disagreement is instantly over-- that admission inherently throws out any claim to credibility, and reveals an inability to argue in good faith.

It's completely dumb-founding to me why so many people unapologetically choose to use that as the basis of a snarky retort, even if that's what they secretly think. It's such a fundamentally self-defeating comeback.

It makes about as much sense as telling someone that it's better to avoid positivity to spare yourself of disappointment, while you're trying to argue about something being negative. You might as well just come right out and tell people that you're intentionally trying to be incorrect in everything that you say.

So well put. I try to identify my own biases and adjust accordingly to "fix my aim."
I find it absurd that someone would flaunt theirs in a debate.
 

CanaFan

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I dunno if Gillis wanted a rebuild or retool but trading 26 year old Cory Schneider for an unknown draft pick is the most rebuild move possible. It’s insane to suggest it’s a retool move. You are literally setting your team back 4-5 years in terms of its current competitiveness.

Now trading picks for 21-23 year old “prospects”, those fit the MO of a retool since you’re shaving years off the development time of your draft picks.
 

Luck 6

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Oct 17, 2008
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That’s how I see it.

Think about the 2015 trade deadline when the Canucks were actually in a playoff spot and/or were in the thick of things:

Did Benning/Linden trade any 1st or 2nd round picks for rental players? Or even *any* picks for pure rental players? Absolutely not.

Trust me: Benning and Linden knew where this team was when they took over in the Summer of 2014. They knew exactly what kind of mess they would have to clean up thanks to Gillis’ inept drafting, along with his careless use of handing out NTC’s/NMC’s to certain players.

A successful rebuild will take 5-7 years. The rebuild started in 2014. IF the Canucks aren’t a playoff team after the 2020-2021 season ends, then I’ll fully admit to the abject failure of this regime.

From what I see now however, they are trending in the right way and have cleaned up many of Gillis’ mistakes. The Canucks will miss playoffs this coming season, but will make the playoffs in 2019-2020. In 2020/2021, they will be a worthy 2nd round calibre team.

This is very very one sided. Gillis’ “mistakes” weren’t mistakes when you consider he was trying to build a contender, I’d say cap management and re-signing players was his regimes greatest strengths. The drafting part though, I can agree that was pretty miserable under Gillis. In his defense we did often draft late, and it’s not like he had all misses (ie: Horvat).
 
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VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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I dunno if Gillis wanted a rebuild or retool but trading 26 year old Cory Schneider for an unknown draft pick is the most rebuild move possible. It’s insane to suggest it’s a retool move. You are literally setting your team back 4-5 years in terms of its current competitiveness.

Now trading picks for 21-23 year old “prospects”, those fit the MO of a retool since you’re shaving years off the development time of your draft picks.
You can complain about the return for Schneider, but at the time the Canucks had Luongo in his prime with a contract that was virtually un-tradeable...so moving their backup made sense at the time. Horvat may have exceeded expectations, but if wasn't on the board at #9 I doubt the Canucks would make that deal. Still, a trade that worked out fine for both teams.
 

Canucks1096

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This is very very one sided. Gillis’ “mistakes” weren’t mistakes when you consider he was trying to build a contender, I’d say cap management and re-signing players was his regimes greatest strengths. The drafting part though, I can agree that was pretty miserable under Gillis. In his defense we did often draft late, and it’s not like he had all misses (ie: Horvat).

True but Gillis from 2008 to 2013 still had six 1st round picks and three 2nd round picks. Hodgson, Schroeder, Jensen, Gaunce, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Mallet, Sauve, Rodin. Getting just two nhl players with those picks is horrible even if there were late picks. The only other 2 nhl players that Gillis drafted was Hutton and Connauton.

I really think if Gillis was little bit better at drafting. Canucks would of won the cup in 2011. Almost all cup winning team since the lockout you had solid young players on entree level contracts. In the salary cap world that's the only way to have stacked team. 2011 Canucks were not stacked enough. They couldn't overcome with all those injuries. I don't have the numbers infront of me but only four players had over 0.5 ppg in the playoffs. Sedins Kesler Burrows. Don't think many teams that went to the finals had so little players with over 0.5 ppg.
 
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CanaFan

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You can complain about the return for Schneider, but at the time the Canucks had Luongo in his prime with a contract that was virtually un-tradeable...so moving their backup made sense at the time. Horvat may have exceeded expectations, but if wasn't on the board at #9 I doubt the Canucks would make that deal. Still, a trade that worked out fine for both teams.

I wasn’t complaining about the return at all. Hell, I’m one of the few people here who liked the trade at the time (feel free to check the archives).

I’m saying it was clearly a REBUILD move, not a retool move. A retool move would have traded Schneider for an existing NHLer.
 

Dab

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Apr 17, 2017
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I wasn’t complaining about the return at all. Hell, I’m one of the few people here who liked the trade at the time (feel free to check the archives).

I’m saying it was clearly a REBUILD move, not a retool move. A retool move would have traded Schneider for an existing NHLer.
I’m not sure it’s a rebuild move, i think the Hodgson for Kassian to me is more of a rebuild move.

Trading excess goalies for picks is a pretty normal thing.
 

CanaFan

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I’m not sure it’s a rebuild move, i think the Hodgson for Kassian to me is more of a rebuild move.

Trading excess goalies for picks is a pretty normal thing.

Well considering they could have traded Schneider (26) for another roster player rather than a draft pick that isn’t even 18 years old, that’s pretty much the definition of rebuild. Schneider was hardly an “excess goalie”, he was their current #1 and only dealt because they couldn’t deal the guy they actually wanted to. He was not like a typical backup being traded for odds and ends.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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Even if Bob McKenzie is right and the second overall pick is in play, the Canucks don't have the assets to move up. In fact of all the teams in the top-10 of this draft the Canucks are the mostly likely to stand pat imo.
 

F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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No, it is clear Gillis wanted a proper rebuild. He got fired for it. Ownership bright in prior that wanted to keep competing.

Umm... you are wrong. How is it clear? Where's the evidence? He signed Higgins and Hansen to a 8 team list NTC. He had the strict policy of never approaching a player to waive their NTC or NMC and he has several Dmen signed to those contracts. When he was trading Kesler, he was apparently offered a futures only deal from Anaheim but he wanted a roster player (e.g. Brandon Sutter). In the summer of 2013 Gillis said this:

"I think we need to supplement the core group that is here as best we can and then look at the possibilities," he said.
"I think there's a couple of significant changes we have to consider. . .We need to get younger. Use this core group to build around."

Just before he got fired he said this:

People love to pick someone to blame, but the reality is that as an organization we've deviated from some of the things that made us successful and some of the things that I know will be successful. We're going to get back to those levels.

We have the personnel to it and we just have to be committed and have the guts to carry it out.

That doesn't sound like a GM who clearly wanted a "proper rebuild" to me.
 

F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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I dunno if Gillis wanted a rebuild or retool but trading 26 year old Cory Schneider for an unknown draft pick is the most rebuild move possible. It’s insane to suggest it’s a retool move. You are literally setting your team back 4-5 years in terms of its current competitiveness.

By itself, the Schneider trade was definitely a rebuild move. But that doesn't mean Gillis was rebuilding rather than retooling. It's more of an asset management move. Their preference was to trade Luongo but weighing everything they decided to move Schneider instead. Certainly, they didn't want to move Schneider instead of Luongo. Rebuilding teams don't typically trade a 26 year old #1 goaltender for a draft pick.
 

Canucks1096

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Feb 13, 2016
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The debate between Fan and Me3 said. Gillis was definitely looking to get younger and wasn't really going for the cup after 2013. Any trade talks Gillis had with core players, He wanted young pieces back. Gillis almost traded Edler to Det for lot of young pieces 1st round pick, Tatar, Smith but trade fell apart. Gillis wanted Pouliot in the Kesler trade and that trade fell apart. Gillis wanted Gardiner from Tor in the luongo trade.

Not sure what to label it. Retooling, rebuild, or just getting younger. But Gillis was definitely trying to get younger but wasn't really that successful in doing it
 

jonnygf40

Registered User
Oct 23, 2009
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No way Carolina trades that pick except for a massive over payment... And Carolina needs top level talent which is what they will get with that pick.....

Agreed. Furthermore, with the rumours out there that all Hurricanes are on the block aside from Aho, how about ... our 1st round pick for Lindholm?
It would give Carolina the 2nd and 7th overall. It would give us another top 2 center to go along with Horvat.
Leipsic Horvat Boeser
Virtanen Lindholm Petterson
Dahlen Gaudette Eriksson
Baertschi Sutter Granlund
 

CanaFan

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By itself, the Schneider trade was definitely a rebuild move. But that doesn't mean Gillis was rebuilding rather than retooling. It's more of an asset management move. Their preference was to trade Luongo but weighing everything they decided to move Schneider instead. Certainly, they didn't want to move Schneider instead of Luongo. Rebuilding teams don't typically trade a 26 year old #1 goaltender for a draft pick.

Bolded is the only argument I was trying to make at the time. When you get as specific as “26 year old #1 goalies for draft pick” you are obviously not going to find a long list of comparable, but the characteristics of the trade - a current star player who needed to be moved, a high draft pick rather than an existing NHL player - fits the criteria of a rebuild move. I mean Colorado traded a 26 year old 1C/2C in a Duchene for a package that was clearly a “rebuild move” in the same way as Schneider was. You could say most rebuilding teams don’t trade 26 yo top 6 centres either but it doesn’t really matter. What matters is the type of return the team seeks when they do.
 

Canucks1096

Registered User
Feb 13, 2016
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Agreed. Furthermore, with the rumours out there that all Hurricanes are on the block aside from Aho, how about ... our 1st round pick for Lindholm?
It would give Carolina the 2nd and 7th overall. It would give us another top 2 center to go along with Horvat.
Leipsic Horvat Boeser
Virtanen Lindholm Petterson
Dahlen Gaudette Eriksson
Baertschi Sutter Granlund

Lindholm is not worth the 7th overall pick. That being I don't mind Lindholm as the second line center
 

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