Best hockey players ever

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Ipousse Lapuck, Oct 9, 2006.

  1. Ipousse Lapuck

    Ipousse Lapuck Registered User

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    Okay so 3 goalies 6 defencemans 12 forwards
    Mine:
    Goalies:
    1-Patrick Roy
    2-Vladislav Trettiak
    3-Jacques Plante
    Defencemans:
    1-Bobby Orr
    2-Doug Harvey
    3-Raymond Bourque
    4-Paul Coffey
    5-Larry Robinson
    6-Eddie Shore/Denis Potvin
    Forwards:
    1-Wayne Gretzky
    2-Mario Lemieux
    3-Gordie Howe
    4-Maurice Richard (my favourite, watch the movie)
    5-Jean Beliveau
    6-Bobby Hull
    7-Guy Lafleur
    8-Mike Bossy
    9-Mark Messier
    10-Phil Esposito
    11-Valeri Vharlamov
    12-Jari Curri

    I've never seen most of them play because I'M 16 but from what i've heard it's a good list

    Please post your list or comment mine
     
  2. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    For being 16 it is a good effort. :)

    Forwards, I would put 1. Gretzky 2. Howe 3. Lemieux 4. Beliveau

    Defense, I would put 1. Orr 2. Shore 3. Bourque

    Goaltenders 1. Hall 2. Roy

    I have done plenty of research and could give a larger list but, I have posted the info several times before.
     
  3. gimzo23

    gimzo23 Registered User

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    I don't think Jari Kurri is a top 12 forward of all-time. And Paul Coffey a top 6 defenseman all-time is arguable I would say.
     
  4. Ipousse Lapuck

    Ipousse Lapuck Registered User

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    Who would comme before Kurri in the top 12? and who would come in the top 6 defencemans. i'm doing this thread to get to know who were the best players in history because i didnt seen them play.:dunno:
     
  5. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    This is a list of the best forwards and defenceman as voted by this History of Hockey board during the summer. If you want more Hockey History and best ever lists scroll back through these threads for the last few months. there is a lot of good research, opinions, votes, first hand accounts.

    Your list is pretty decent though at least IMO.

    Defencemen:

    #1.Orr
    #2.Shore
    #3.Harvey
    #4.Bourque
    #5.Potvin
    #6.Robinson
    #7.Kelly
    #8.Lidstrom
    #9.Coffey
    #10.Chelios
    #11.Fetisov
    #12.Park
    #13.Pilote
    #14.Horton
    #15.Clancy
    #16.Stevens

    Forwards:

    #1 Gretzky
    #2 Lemieux
    #3 Howe
    #4 Richard
    #5 Beliveau
    #6 Hull
    #7 LaFleur
    #8 Esposito
    #9 Morenz
    #10 Messier
    #11 Jagr
    #12 Bossy
    #13 Mikita
    #14 Trottier
    #15 Clarke
    #16 Lindsay
    #17 Yzerman
    #18 Sakic
    #19 Lalonde
    #20 Dionne
    #21 Schmidt
    #22 Mahovlich
    #23 Apps
     
  6. Ipousse Lapuck

    Ipousse Lapuck Registered User

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    thank you very much, i really appreciate:handclap:
     
  7. Ogopogo*

    Ogopogo* Guest

    Here you go Ipousse:

    Top Goalies all time:

    1 Glenn Hall
    2 Patrick Roy
    3 Terry Sawchuk
    4 Ken Dryden
    5 Dominik Hasek
    6 Jacques Plante
    7 Frank Brimsek
    8 Martin Brodeur
    9 Clint Benedict*
    10 Bill Durnan
    11 Cecil " Tiny" Thompson*
    12 Tony Esposito
    13 Bernie Parent
    14 Walter " Turk" Broda
    15 Roy Worters*
    16 Chuck Rayner
    17 Ed Giacomin
    18 Georges Vezina*
    19 George Hainsworth*
    20 Johnny Bower
    21 Grant Fuhr
    22 Harry Lumley
    23 Alex Connell*
    24 Mike Liut
    25 Lorne "Gump" Worsley


    Top Non-Goalies:

    1 Wayne Gretzky
    2 Gordie Howe
    3 Bobby Orr
    4 Mario Lemieux
    5 Jean Beliveau
    6 Eddie Shore*
    7 Bobby Hull
    8 Ray Bourque
    9 Maurice "Rocket" Richard
    10 Phil Esposito
    11 Jaromir Jagr
    12 Stan Mikita
    13 Guy Lafleur
    14 Doug Harvey
    15 Howie Morenz*
    16 Leonard "Red" Kelly*
    17 Francis "King" Clancy*
    18 Bill Cowley
    19 Paul Coffey
    20 Ted Kennedy
    21 Bryan Trottier
    22 Earl Seibert*
    23 Andy Bathgate
    24 Syl Apps, Sr.
    25 Cecil " Babe" Dye*
    26 Bobby Clarke
    27 Elmer Lach
    28 Cy Denneny*
    29 Marcel Dionne
    30 Milt Schmidt
    31 Mike Bossy
    32 Nels Stewart*
    33 Denis Potvin
    34 Mark Messier
    35 Larry Robinson
    36 Nicklas Lidstrom
    37 Lionel Conacher*
    38 Joe Sakic
    39 Pierre Pilote
    40 Frank Boucher*
    41 Charlie Conacher
    42 Max Bentley
    43 Steve Yzerman
    44 Brad Park
    45 Harry Cameron*
    46 Bernie Geoffrion
    47 Doug Bentley
    48 Al MacInnis
    49 Ted Lindsay
    50 Brett Hull
     
  8. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    Ogopogo's right on one thing: that's very good for a 16-year-old. Anyways, here's my list:

    Goalie:
    1. Jacques Plante
    2. Patrick Roy
    3. Terry Sawchuk
    (Note: The top four goalies [toss Glenn Hall into the equation] are incredibly close, and one would be justified for listing any of those four as the top goalie ever).

    Defenceman:
    1. Bobby Orr
    2. Eddie Shore
    3. Doug Harvey
    4. Ray Bourque
    5. Denis Potvin
    6. Larry Robinson
    7. Leonard "Red" Kelly
    Note: If there's one ranking I'd dispute, it'd be your listing of Shore so low. (I wouldn't rate Kurri in the top 12, but to have Shore at No. 6 is criminal). Shore is likely the smartest defenceman ever. Kelly's rating suffers a bit among defencemen because he played forward, but he won the first-ever Norris, and likely wins six or seven if not for Harvey.

    Forwards:
    1. Gordie Howe
    2. Wayne Gretzky
    3. Mario Lemieux
    4. Rocket Richard
    5. Jean Beliveau
    6. Bobby Hull
    7. Guy LaFleur
    8. Howie Morenz
    9. Bobby Clarke
    10. Phil Esposito
    11. Stan Mikita
    12. Bryan Trottier
    13. Mark Messier
    Notes: It's the never-ending debate. Gretzky or Lemieux? Well, I'd take Howe. A better all-round player. Richard and Beliveau are rated that high because they won. Hull and Mikita would be rated higher, but they only won one Cup each. A lot of people won't be happy to see Clarke that high. But the guy was an incredible all-round force, and a fantastic leader. Others might not be happy to see Messier so low. While he wasn't the player that Trottier, Mikita or Espo were, if I'm putting together an actual team from scratch, I'd take Messier ahead of them. Those three players were centres. I can use Messier at LW.

    If I was assembling an actual team:

    Goalies:
    Plante
    Roy
    Sawchuk

    Defenceman:
    Orr-Robinson
    Potvin-Bourque
    Harvey-Shore
    Kelly

    Forwards:
    Hull-Gretzky-Howe
    Messier-Lemieux-Lafleur
    Mahovlich-Beliveau-Bossy
    Lindsay-Clarke-Richard
    Mikita
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2006
  9. Nalyd Psycho

    Nalyd Psycho Registered User

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    I'd include Hasek with the big 5. Absolutly dominant at his peak, and it is often forgotten that he was a four time MVP in Czechslovakia.
     
  10. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

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    In fact, that whole country just packed it in and ceased to exist when he left for the NHL :teach:

    Not even Gretzky could do that.
     
  11. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    I'd say Hasek's a step down from the Big 4, but it's a small step. Hasek, Dryden, Brodeur, Tretiak and Durnan are all legends of the game, but I would rate them a nick below my top four.

    My one concern with my team is having Roy or Plante as the back-up. Might not be the best situation for team success. Hasek's another goalie who might not slide into a No. 2 or 3 role. Finding a quality back-up or No. 3 goalie isn't easy; just look at some of Team Canada's past situations. Roy was none-too-pleased that he wasn't handed the starting goalie job for the 2002 Olys. Theodore was less-than enamoured with being the No. 3 goalie at the 2004 World Cup.
     
  12. Evil Speaker

    Evil Speaker Registered

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    I think i've just about made up my mind on the top 6 defensemen ever:
    1.Bobby Orr
    2.Eddie Shore
    3.Doug Harvey
    4a.Ray Bourque
    4b.Denis Potvin
    6.Red Kelly
     
  13. raffael3d

    raffael3d Registered User

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    I have to dispute that list, it almost only lists north american lpayers.

    Players like Malzev, Ivan Hlinka, Kharlamov and especially Makarov and Krutov should be in there. Same goes for Forsberg.
     
  14. Nalyd Psycho

    Nalyd Psycho Registered User

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    Well, I don't think that should be a concideration when determining the best of all time. Hasek's time behind Belfour proved he doesn't work well as a back-up. But the difference between Hasek and say Dryden and Durnan is that he didn't have a short career. He had a short NHL career but took Tretiak's title as best goalie outside the NHL before adapting to the North American game. He had the peaks of a Dryden or Durnan but with more longevity.

    Also, Hasek is the only goalie in the history of hockey to ever be the best player of an era. Sawchuk had Howe, Plante had Howe and Beliveau, Hall had Howe, Beliveau and Hull, Roy had Gretzky, Lemieux and Hasek. Hasek had no one. The only goalie to ever win two MVPs. His six Vezina's is matched only by Durnan and Plante and it was a statistical award for them, voted for Hasek.

    Then there's his international awards, 3 time Czechslovakian MVP, (My mistake saying 4 time, for some reason I thought he and Ruzicka split it for 6 years with Ruzicka winning twice, but it was five years.) 5 time Czechslovakian goalie of the year, 2 time IIHF goalie of the year, 3 time best goalie at the World Championships, 1 time WJC best goalie, 3 time Czechslovakian first team all star (Yeah, don't ask me how he won best goalie two more times than being named first team all-star.) And, back to North America, 1 time IHL first team All-Star, 6 time NHL first team all-star. Only Hall beats that and only Durnan ties it.

    Hasek is in the big five of goalies. There is no question in my mind. He defined an era, no other goalie can claim that. He was the best player of an era, no other goalie can claim that.
     
  15. pappyline

    pappyline Registered User

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    IMO, Hull should be ranked higher than Richard or Beliveau. I think most people who actually saw all 3 play would agree. The only reasons for ranking Richard & Beliveau higher is 1:they won more "Stanley" (people forget Hull won a couple of AVCO's)cups & 2:they had longer NHL careers. Neither is logical. The Stanley cup is a team award & is dependent on the team make up, goaltending coaching and luck (injuries etc.).
     
  16. trevchar1971

    trevchar1971 Registered User

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    Goalies
    Roy/ Sawchuk/ Plante

    Defense
    Orr/ Harvey/ Shore/ Bourque/ Potvin/ Robinson

    Forwards
    Gretzky/ Howe/ Richard/ Beliveau/ Lemieux/ Messier/ Bobby Hull/ Lafleur/ Yzerman/ Bossy/ Sakic/ Morenz

    alternates
    Fetisov d/ Mikita f/ Lindsay f
     
  17. trevchar1971

    trevchar1971 Registered User

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    2nd team
    Goalies
    Hall/ Hasek/ Brodeur

    Defense
    Fetisov/ Hornton/ Kelly/ Chelios/ Stevens/ Lidstrom

    Forwards
    Forsberg/ Lindsay/ Makita/ Esposito/ Clarke/ Jagr/ Trottier/ Dionne/ Kharlamov/ Perreault/ F. Mahovlich/ Brett Hull.....
    :banana: :banana: :banana:
     
  18. raleh

    raleh Registered User

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    GBC, I hate when you get to these threads before me because I end up just repeating you and looking like a fool! haha. The only big changes I would make if it were MY team is; switch Sawchuck and Plante making Sawchuck the starter and Plante #3. Replace Kelly with Horton as the 7th defenceman. Kelly may have been the better player, but what he brings to the table is already there with Potvin, Harvey, Orr, and to an extent Shore. Horton would add a whole new physical element to that blue line as the (arguably) strongest player ever. I've always liked this line up on forward:
    Lindsay- Gretzky- Bossy
    Hull- Beliveau- Rocket
    Mahovlich-Lemieux- Morenz
    Messier- Clarke- Howe
    Gainey

    I would roll all four lines with Gainey getting some time on the fourth line when needed. I don't think Howe is a fourth line player, but he can fit on an energy line better than the other RW's I have. Morenz could play the wing well enough to knock Lafleur off of my team. I couldn't count how many times I've imagined Beliveau centering Rocket and Hull. No way could that line be shut down.
     
  19. NOTENOUGHBREWER

    NOTENOUGHBREWER Registered User

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    Ogopogo do you have a website somewhere that explains your list in detail? I'd like to see how it works.
     
  20. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    That would be one tough 4th line. Imagine how fun that line would be to play against!
     
  21. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    As good as Horton was defensively, I think Harvey and Shore are every bit as good, and everyone in my top six is more than capable defensively. I'm a big Red Kelly fan. I think if I was going to sacrifice anybody, it would be Robinson - move Potvin to the top pairing, Kelly to the second pairing and keep the third pairing as is. But, on the other hand, I just can't ignore Robinson's still-unmatched combination of size, skill and creativity.

    Even though Lindsay and Richard are my No. 2 picks all-time for their respective positions, I have them on the fourth line because of the combination of skill and grit that they provide. Put them on a line with Clarke and you have an unstoppable two-way line. (As we put it in the all-time draft). Guys like Bossy, LaFleur and Mahovlich were all-time greats, but not suited to checking or "two-way line" duties.

    I went with Mikita as my 13th forward because he would bring oodles of offensive awareness, while still not giving up anything in the grit, physical play or defensive play departments.
     
  22. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Make Glenn Hall your starter. Then you only need to worry about a back-up every 7 years or so.
     
  23. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    It isn't my list it is a list of what all the posters on this board voted on this summer.
     
  24. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    Interesting concept. I'll bite. (Anything to get more debate going).

    Goalies:
    1) Hall
    2) Hasek
    3) Dryden
    Note: No legitimate drop-off here. As good as it gets. I do have concerns about Hasek being compatible as a back-up. Sorry, Nalyd, but Hasek's attitude wasn't always his strong suit. Went with Dryden because nobody had a better eight-year run than Dryden. Individual awards + Cups = best run ever.

    Defencemen:

    Coffey-B. Park
    Lidstrom-Fetisov
    Horton-Chelios
    Pilote
    Notes: I have Fetisov and Chelios ahead of Coffey, but Coffey and Park get the nod for the top pairing due to offensive upside. Chelios and Horton were double-tough and incredibly difficult to play against. Pilote is ridiculously underrated - viewed as a transitional Norris winner between Harvey and Orr. He had terrific skill and a mean streak. An all-star eight straight years. No weaknesses among the second and third pairings.

    Forwards:

    Kharlamov-Morenz-Jagr
    D. Moore-Esposito-Cook
    Bucyk-Apps-Geoffrion
    Gainey-Trottier-C. Conacher
    Schmidt
    Notes: The first line would have incredible speed and skill. Might have to break them up and put a gunner like Espo on the line. You really start to notice the decline in talent on the left side. Kharlamov's a legend, and Moore had an incredible peak, but there is a drop-off to Bucyk, who set position scoring records based on longevity. Gainey offers little offensive upside from the fourth line. I'd take Trottier ahead of Apps, but Apps moves up based on offensive upside. A lot of new fans will be upset to see Yzerman left off. But there are only so many centre spots to go around. Same thing for Sakic, M. Bentley and H. Richard. (Geez, I've already got the centres locked up for the No. 3 team). One name you won't see on my No. 2 or even No. 3 team: Marcel Dionne. Hockey's biggest choke artist.
     
  25. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    How much would the era affect who you would pick? If your team was going to play in the NHL in 1955 or say in the high flying 1985 era or say the "deadpuck" 2003 season. Considering the changes in style, equipment, size of players, arenas etc.

    I would pretty much go with a very similar forward and defence list as God Bless Canada's (lazy won't make my own list right now but it would be essentially the same as his anyway).

    I think the greatest forwards and defence, at least those in the top 20 ever, shine in any era regardless of the equipment they use, the style of play or other factors.

    The only changes I would make are in goal:

    1955 Sawchuk Plante
    1985 Roy Brodeur
    2002 Hasek Roy
     

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