Best hockey players ever

SGY19

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Mar 26, 2006
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Back to the old game of making ridiculous comments about Yzerman eh? Fun stuff. in a similar vein.... Bobby Clarke didn't care about winning at all, Rocket Richard would have been better if only he had some intensity to his game, Bobby Hull could have been an All-Time Great if only for his lack of speed and Eddie Shore could have been greater if only he would have got his hands dirty and finally Gordie Howe was a brittle, injury prone player.

No it's not ridiculous. Like it or not Lidstrom is the better captain, he's had the better career, and he's been the red wing's best player for over 10 years. The only aspect that Yzerman beats Lidstrom in is classiness. If the Red Wings had to start all over and they had to choose between drafting a young Lidstrom or a young Yzerman, they would choose Lidstrom (Mr. Perfect) by a landslide. The Red Wings consider Lidstrom, not Yzerman, the perfect hockey player and now the perfect captain.
 

Sens Rule

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Sep 22, 2005
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No it's not ridiculous. Like it or not Lidstrom is the better captain, he's had the better career, and he's been the red wing's best player for over 10 years. The only aspect that Yzerman beats Lidstrom in is classiness. If the Red Wings had to start all over and they had to choose between drafting a young Lidstrom or a young Yzerman, they would choose Lidstrom (Mr. Perfect) by a landslide. The Red Wings consider Lidstrom, not Yzerman, the perfect hockey player and now the perfect captain.

Well obviously you are saying this just to get the reaction but I will bite.

Lidstrom has been captain for what 8 or 9 games? And the Wings have about a .500 record. Yzerman was Captain for about 17 or so years (maybe more) and he led his team to 3 cups and a ton of success.

But hey the perfect hockey player? That is Steve Yzerman. Lidstrom plays perfectly as a D-Man - he rarely makes mistakes. And in the last 10 years Lidstrom has been a better player than Yzerman. In the 10 years before? Well I think Yzerman has a pretty sweet career. But the perfect hockey player? The legendary icon of hockey? Hockey the brutal physical sport. That is Yzerman in the 2002 playoffs when he could barely stand-up without the support of his stick. When after the season he had an operation that is typically performed on seniors. And he led his team to the Cup that year. He got a point a game in the playoffs as a cripple. To be Captain or leader of your team Yzerman could do it as a deaf mute. No need for Ra Ra speeches. He was a cripple and 38 years old. His best days at least 5 or 6 years behind him and yet he played better than anyone on either team in almost every shift he took. No need for words when actions speak for themselves. If you were a Wing in 2002 you could not possibly not give your best effort as your Crippled Captain laid it all on the line every shift.

Lidstrom is a great player - Perhaps a better player than Yzerman and perhaps not but to be a better Captain or leader than Yzerman he has many seasons ahead of him to prove it. And he won't be able to unless he does something unbelievable.
 

SGY19

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Well obviously you are saying this just to get the reaction but I will bite.

Lidstrom has been captain for what 8 or 9 games? And the Wings have about a .500 record. Yzerman was Captain for about 17 or so years (maybe more) and he led his team to 3 cups and a ton of success.

But hey the perfect hockey player? That is Steve Yzerman. Lidstrom plays perfectly as a D-Man - he rarely makes mistakes. And in the last 10 years Lidstrom has been a better player than Yzerman. In the 10 years before? Well I think Yzerman has a pretty sweet career. But the perfect hockey player? The legendary icon of hockey? Hockey the brutal physical sport. That is Yzerman in the 2002 playoffs when he could barely stand-up without the support of his stick. When after the season he had an operation that is typically performed on seniors. And he led his team to the Cup that year. He got a point a game in the playoffs as a cripple. To be Captain or leader of your team Yzerman could do it as a deaf mute. No need for Ra Ra speeches. He was a cripple and 38 years old. His best days at least 5 or 6 years behind him and yet he played better than anyone on either team in almost every shift he took. No need for words when actions speak for themselves. If you were a Wing in 2002 you could not possibly not give your best effort as your Crippled Captain laid it all on the line every shift.

Lidstrom is a great player - Perhaps a better player than Yzerman and perhaps not but to be a better Captain or leader than Yzerman he has many seasons ahead of him to prove it. And he won't be able to unless he does something unbelievable.


Actually it's the Red Wings that say Lidstrom is the perfect player. Even Scotty Bowman said it too.

Yzerman has had a decent career, but no where near as great as Lidstrom's career.
 

NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS

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Feb 28, 2006
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Is the only thing you do talk about how Yzerman wasnt that great so you can cream your pants when everyone says Yzerman really was great?
 

1datsyuk3*

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Yzerman has had a decent career, but no where near as great as Lidstrom's career.


You are dilusional....to say Yzerman's career is "no where near" Lidstroms's is flat out Pejorative Slured...

Yzerman's career has been better by miles and we are yet to see if it ultimately will be better...
 

SGY19

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You are dilusional....to say Yzerman's career is "no where near" Lidstroms's is flat out Pejorative Slured...

Yzerman's career has been better by miles and we are yet to see if it ultimately will be better...

I think if we would've been discussing this 5 years ago then it would be safe to say that Yzerman has had the better career. Unfortunately it's just not the case anymore. Lidstrom has been far more dominant at his position than Yzerman ever was. Yzerman was never the best at his position, while has been the best defenseman for awhile now. Lids has also won more awards and has had more post season all-star team selections. Lidstrom has completed dominated the norris trophies, while Yzerman never dominated any of the trophies.

Just look at all the current lists of the greatest hockey players of all-time. You will notice that Lidstrom is always listed ahead of Yzerman.
 

trevchar1971

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Jun 1, 2006
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At this point its Yzerman ahead of Lidstrom..... as all time gretas go Yzerman is about the same as Bourque and Bossy..... who are in about the top 25 while Lidstrom is maybe Top 50.:teach: The only thing that kept Yzerman from being THE most dominant offensive force in the past 40 years were #s 99 and 66.:bow:
 

1datsyuk3*

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At this point its Yzerman ahead of Lidstrom..... as all time gretas go Yzerman is about the same as Bourque and Bossy..... who are in about the top 25 while Lidstrom is maybe Top 50.:teach: The only thing that kept Yzerman from being THE most dominant offensive force in the past 40 years were #s 99 and 66.:bow:

exactly
 

Nalyd Psycho

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At this point its Yzerman ahead of Lidstrom..... as all time gretas go Yzerman is about the same as Bourque and Bossy..... who are in about the top 25 while Lidstrom is maybe Top 50.:teach: The only thing that kept Yzerman from being THE most dominant offensive force in the past 40 years were #s 99 and 66.:bow:

I think you seriously underrate Lidstrom though. Easily a top 10 d-man of all time and a case could be made for top 5.
 

SGY19

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"better than ever":biglaugh: do you even watch the games, we suck balls...

See I told you the Red Wings would be fine. They just got off to a slow start. Lidstrom is a great captain. Part of the problem with Yzerman is he had been on the team for too long and he had too many friends just like with Dave Lewis. It's like Yzerman always says, the novelty of seeing Yzerman and being around him has worn off. Even his teammates said at first when they came to Detroit they were in awe of Yzerman, but after a while he was just a regular guy. The respect wore off quickly. Yzerman did have his moments like in 97 and 02, but more often than not he was ineffective. It's better to have captain that isn't friends with so many players because they'll be less likely to take advantage of that. Many of the players got too comfortable and often were slacking. Lidstrom is an elite player so his teammates will always be awe of him. They have more respect for him and they will follow his lead. Because Lidstrom is such a new captain the players will try harder and not slack off as much to make his job easier.
 

Sens Rule

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Sep 22, 2005
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See I told you the Red Wings would be fine. They just got off to a slow start. Lidstrom is a great captain. Part of the problem with Yzerman is he had been on the team for too long and he had too many friends just like with Dave Lewis. It's like Yzerman always says, the novelty of seeing Yzerman and being around him has worn off. Even his teammates said at first when they came to Detroit they were in awe of Yzerman, but after a while he was just a regular guy. The respect wore off quickly. Yzerman did have his moments like in 97 and 02, but more often than not he was ineffective. It's better to have captain that isn't friends with so many players because they'll be less likely to take advantage of that. Many of the players got too comfortable and often were slacking. Lidstrom is an elite player so his teammates will always be awe of him. They have more respect for him and they will follow his lead. Because Lidstrom is such a new captain the players will try harder and not slack off as much to make his job easier.

I wonder if you really believe these things or are saying it purely for the reaction it brings. I think it is a little bit of both but that you actually believe some of these things you say. The respect for Yzerman grew among his teammates and the entire NHL for his entire career. And for good reason. In last years playoffs Yzerman who was a shell of his former self at that point physically was still probably the Wings best player down the stretch and in the playoffs. When Gretzky was announcing last years Olympics team early on he said Mario AND Yzerman had a spot if they wanted it. That is the kind of respect Yzerman gets from the greatest hockey player ever. The fact that Yzerman didn't take the spot offered because he no longer thought he could bring enough to the table adds to the respect Yzerman gets from everyone involved in hockey from players to management to fans to writers.

Yzerman is one of the top 50 players in hockey history. Some rate him around 20 some rate him between 40 and 50. Either way he is thought of as a great player. However as talented as he was he is even more highly respected as a leader and for his intangibles than he is purely as a player. Those intangibles are why Gretzky had a spot open for Yzerman on the Olmpic team. Yzerman may have been a shell of his former self and there may have been 50 or even 100 Canadian players that were more talented at this point in Yzerman's career but still Yzerman was invited to be on the team. Why? Because he brings more intangibles and leadership than pretty much anyone else in hockey. Even at 40 years old with his recent surgerys. That is the kind of respect Yzerman deservedly got in his career even at the end.

Watching Yzerman play in an important game it is clear why he gets this high level of respect because he brings his A game every single shift and will do anything he can to help his team win.
 

Wisent

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No it's not ridiculous. Like it or not Lidstrom is the better captain, he's had the better career, and he's been the red wing's best player for over 10 years. The only aspect that Yzerman beats Lidstrom in is classiness. If the Red Wings had to start all over and they had to choose between drafting a young Lidstrom or a young Yzerman, they would choose Lidstrom (Mr. Perfect) by a landslide. The Red Wings consider Lidstrom, not Yzerman, the perfect hockey player and now the perfect captain.

What is this "clssiness"? What has Lidstrom ever done that doesn`t make him classy? Just a question.
 

Wisent

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I wonder if you really believe these things or are saying it purely for the reaction it brings. I think it is a little bit of both but that you actually believe some of these things you say. The respect for Yzerman grew among his teammates and the entire NHL for his entire career. And for good reason. In last years playoffs Yzerman who was a shell of his former self at that point physically was still probably the Wings best player down the stretch and in the playoffs. When Gretzky was announcing last years Olympics team early on he said Mario AND Yzerman had a spot if they wanted it. That is the kind of respect Yzerman gets from the greatest hockey player ever. The fact that Yzerman didn't take the spot offered because he no longer thought he could bring enough to the table adds to the respect Yzerman gets from everyone involved in hockey from players to management to fans to writers.

Yzerman is one of the top 50 players in hockey history. Some rate him around 20 some rate him between 40 and 50. Either way he is thought of as a great player. However as talented as he was he is even more highly respected as a leader and for his intangibles than he is purely as a player. Those intangibles are why Gretzky had a spot open for Yzerman on the Olmpic team. Yzerman may have been a shell of his former self and there may have been 50 or even 100 Canadian players that were more talented at this point in Yzerman's career but still Yzerman was invited to be on the team. Why? Because he brings more intangibles and leadership than pretty much anyone else in hockey. Even at 40 years old with his recent surgerys. That is the kind of respect Yzerman deservedly got in his career even at the end.

Watching Yzerman play in an important game it is clear why he gets this high level of respect because he brings his A game every single shift and will do anything he can to help his team win.

AS much as I like Yzerman that is hardly a good argument considering who was on the team.
 

SGY19

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I wonder if you really believe these things or are saying it purely for the reaction it brings. I think it is a little bit of both but that you actually believe some of these things you say. The respect for Yzerman grew among his teammates and the entire NHL for his entire career. And for good reason. In last years playoffs Yzerman who was a shell of his former self at that point physically was still probably the Wings best player down the stretch and in the playoffs. When Gretzky was announcing last years Olympics team early on he said Mario AND Yzerman had a spot if they wanted it. That is the kind of respect Yzerman gets from the greatest hockey player ever. The fact that Yzerman didn't take the spot offered because he no longer thought he could bring enough to the table adds to the respect Yzerman gets from everyone involved in hockey from players to management to fans to writers.

Yzerman is one of the top 50 players in hockey history. Some rate him around 20 some rate him between 40 and 50. Either way he is thought of as a great player. However as talented as he was he is even more highly respected as a leader and for his intangibles than he is purely as a player. Those intangibles are why Gretzky had a spot open for Yzerman on the Olmpic team. Yzerman may have been a shell of his former self and there may have been 50 or even 100 Canadian players that were more talented at this point in Yzerman's career but still Yzerman was invited to be on the team. Why? Because he brings more intangibles and leadership than pretty much anyone else in hockey. Even at 40 years old with his recent surgerys. That is the kind of respect Yzerman deservedly got in his career even at the end.

Watching Yzerman play in an important game it is clear why he gets this high level of respect because he brings his A game every single shift and will do anything he can to help his team win.


Yes I do believe what I post or else I wouldn't bother posting it. You made some good points in your post. I agree that Yzerman always brought his A game every single shift and would do anything he could to help his team win even if he thought that meant to retire. Yes, he was the Red Wings best player down the stretch and in the playoffs. He proved that he could still play when used properly and that's why I wanted him to play for another year. I really wanted to see him get #700. Anyways I think the Red Wings became so use to it that it wasn't a big deal. They just all got too comfortable. With Team Canada it was different. It was a whole different team with different players who haven't been playing with Yzerman much. They also hadn't won the gold in 50 years so there was more motivation. It just seemed like the Red Wings lacked motivation since after the 2002 cup win, but now it seems different with Lidstrom leading the way. These guys have more motivation to win. The Red Wing players do have a certain respect for Yzerman, but not as much as opposing players. Even management doesn't seem to respect him as much. In the end they rarely even acknowledged his milestones. They honored Lidstrom for his milestones and even Chelios when he was named captain of Team USA, but nothing for any of Yzerman's milestones. I didn't expect them to honor every single one of Yzerman's, but maybe some of the bigger ones like playing in his 1500th game for the Red Wings.

The bottomline is Lidstrom is just a better leader. He has the respect of his teammates, the coaching staff, and the management staff. That's one of the most important things in being a great leader.
 

1datsyuk3*

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The bottomline is Lidstrom is just a better leader. He has the respect of his teammates, the coaching staff, and the management staff. That's one of the most important things in being a great leader.

And Yzerman didn't?:biglaugh:

The bottom line is you can't say Lidstrom is the better captain when he has only played 12 games as a captain, while Yzerman was captain for 20 ****ing years! Does this not strike you as a completely absurd comparison???

It doesn't matter what you post in response to my reply Lidstrom has been captain for 12 games, Yzerman 20 years.:banghead:
 

SGY19

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And Yzerman didn't?:biglaugh:

The bottom line is you can't say Lidstrom is the better captain when he has only played 12 games as a captain, while Yzerman was captain for 20 ****ing years! Does this not strike you as a completely absurd comparison???

It doesn't matter what you post in response to my reply Lidstrom has been captain for 12 games, Yzerman 20 years.:banghead:


I think Yzerman had the respect of some of his teammates, but like I said before I think it got to the point where he was just one of the guys. It didn't seem to me like Babcock respected Yzerman just based on comments that Babcock made and the way he used Yzerman. He really had no confidence in Yzerman at all. As for the management staff, I'm not sure. At times they seem to treat Yzerman with alot of respect and other times they don't. The one thing that was strange was Yzerman comments during the year about considering moving. That seemed odd to me. Lidstrom is treated completely different by the Red Wings than Yzerman. It's pretty obvious that they respect Lidstrom more than they do Yzerman.

Yes, I know Lidstrom hasn't been captain as long as Yzerman, but that was completely out of Lidstrom's control. The Red Wings had Yzerman and they couldn't just strip him of the C. I'm sure if Lidstrom really wanted it then they would've given it to him sooner even if it meant trading Yzerman.

Just because Lidstrom hasn't been captain as long as Yzerman, doesn't mean he's a worse captain. Like I said he's more respected, he seems to have the team under control and more focused, the coach has confidence in him, and he's more of an on-ice leader because he plays more minutes.
 

1datsyuk3*

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I think Yzerman had the respect of some of his teammates, but like I said before I think it got to the point where he was just one of the guys.

I'm sure if Lidstrom really wanted it then they would've given it to him sooner even if it meant trading Yzerman.

Just because Lidstrom hasn't been captain as long as Yzerman, doesn't mean he's a worse captain. Like I said he's more respected, he seems to have the team under control and more focused, the coach has confidence in him, and he's more of an on-ice leader because he plays more minutes.

Lidstroms total captain minutes - 660

Yzerman's total captain minutes - 102,600

But yea, you are right Lidstroms the better captain:shakehead

Yzerman wasn't "one of the guys" you may feel that way, but every other sane person knows this isn't the case...

You don't walk into the locker room and see Deveraux and Yzerman standing next to each other and think "ho, hum two hockey players"

As for them giving Lids the C if he really wanted it even if it meant trading Yzerman...thats a huge load of BS

Yzerman had the team under control, took us to 3 Stanley Cups, 4 back to back 50+ goal seasons, etc. etc. etc.

YOU CANT COMPARE THESE TWO CAPTAIN-WISE, LIDSTROM WILL NEVER BE A BETTER CAPTAIN BECAUSE HE HAS A MAX 3 YEARS LEFT IN HIM AND YOU CANT SAY LIDSTROM (BEING A GREAT CAPTAIN FOR 3 YEARS) IS BETTER THAN YZERMAN (BEING A GREAT CAPTAIN FOIR 20 YEARS)
 

pitseleh

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Jul 30, 2005
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Paul Coffey in the top 6 defensemen of all time is ridiculous, and even more ridiculous is excluding Bourque from top 5, let alone top 3.

Top 10 Defensemen:

Orr
Bourque
Shore
Harvey
Lidstrom
Robinson
Potvin
Chelios
Leetch, Pronger or Stevens

Paul Coffey could be the most overrated of defensemen all-time. I mean you should be able to play defense right?

He was making a second team set of allstars. Bourque would undeniably be on the first team.
 

SGY19

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Mar 26, 2006
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You are dilusional....to say Yzerman's career is "no where near" Lidstroms's is flat out Pejorative Slured...

Yzerman's career has been better by miles and we are yet to see if it ultimately will be better...

You may want to check out this thread. Just about everyone seems to think that Chelios and Lidstrom both have had better careers than Yzerman.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=6929430#post6929430
 

SGY19

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Mar 26, 2006
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Lidstroms total captain minutes - 660

Yzerman's total captain minutes - 102,600

But yea, you are right Lidstroms the better captain:shakehead

Yzerman wasn't "one of the guys" you may feel that way, but every other sane person knows this isn't the case...

You don't walk into the locker room and see Deveraux and Yzerman standing next to each other and think "ho, hum two hockey players"

As for them giving Lids the C if he really wanted it even if it meant trading Yzerman...thats a huge load of BS

Yzerman had the team under control, took us to 3 Stanley Cups, 4 back to back 50+ goal seasons, etc. etc. etc.

YOU CANT COMPARE THESE TWO CAPTAIN-WISE, LIDSTROM WILL NEVER BE A BETTER CAPTAIN BECAUSE HE HAS A MAX 3 YEARS LEFT IN HIM AND YOU CANT SAY LIDSTROM (BEING A GREAT CAPTAIN FOR 3 YEARS) IS BETTER THAN YZERMAN (BEING A GREAT CAPTAIN FOIR 20 YEARS)


Longetivity means nothing in the world of the sports. Like I said it before it's not Lidstrom's fault he wasn't given the captaincy sooner. On any other team he would've been a captain, while Yzerman probably wouldn't have been a captain on another team.

Yzeman's teammates said he was just a regular guy. They said at first they were in awe, but after a while the novelty wore off and he was a regular guy.

As for Devereaux and Yzerman, which one was at least given the opportunity to try out with the team this year and prove himself? I'll give you a hint? It wasn't the one that wore the #19 for the Red Wings.

You're right the Red Wings probably wouldn't have traded Yzerman to give Lidstrom the C, but they probably would've just had Yzerman give it up.

Yes, Yzerman has had some great moments with the team, but he's also had his share of bad moments too.

Too say Lidstrom will never be the better captain because he hasn't been captain as long is ridiculous. Longetivity has nothing to do with being a great captain. Winning is everything.
 

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