Confirmed with Link: Baertschi Traded to Vancouver for 2nd Round Pick 2015

[Flaming Satan]

Baertschi was hand given a spot on the Flames by Feaster, this meant he had no motivation to work towards a spot because he had it. If Feaster would have made him work for it and put him back in Abbotsford (at the time) he would have something to work towards and that's what would have driven him to be a better player.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[DCDM]

Jooris started from the 4th line and worked himself up. Sven could have easily done the same, but didn't.

Jooris also came in with zero expectations and no confidence issues. Everyone knew Baertschi was an offensive player so putting him with grinders was a pretty stupid thing to do from a coach's standpoint.

I realize my arguments sound like they flip flop a lot and honestly it's because I still don't know where I lie on this trade. There's a lot of blame to be considered from both sides (management and Sven). I'm as much posting in public as I am trying to sort out my opinion.

 

[CraigsList]

Jooris also came in with zero expectations and no confidence issues. Everyone knew Baertschi was an offensive player so putting him with grinders was a pretty stupid thing to do from a coach's standpoint.

I realize my arguments sound like they flip flop a lot and honestly it's because I still don't know where I lie on this trade. There's a lot of blame to be considered from both sides (management and Sven). I'm as much posting in public as I am trying to sort out my opinion.

I've noticed I've gone both ways myself. It's probably because you and I, and most other Flames' fans were very high on Baertschi.

I've just concluded that it was best for management to move on from Sven and Sven to move on from the Flames.

 

[Lunatik]

Baertschi was hand given a spot on the Flames by Feaster, this meant he had no motivation to work towards a spot because he had it. If Feaster would have made him work for it and put him back in Abbotsford (at the time) he would have something to work towards and that's what would have driven him to be a better player.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

We assume that Baertschi would have worked harder, but we don't know that for sure. He may have still expected to be treated differently than others, like he did heading into rookie camp when he felt like he was too good to be there. Sometimes early success goes to someone's head.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Baertschi was hand given a spot on the Flames by Feaster, this meant he had no motivation to work towards a spot because he had it. If Feaster would have made him work for it and put him back in Abbotsford (at the time) he would have something to work towards and that's what would have driven him to be a better player.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Feaster certainly made some mistakes but to me this on Sven he wanted to be a pro and got out worked by the vast majority of prospects. He didn't seem to want to put the work in to get to the show.

 

[Vkonroy]

Yeah you'd think he would have gotten the message after such a lazy performance the '13 rookie camp, but he seems as equally if not more unmotivated for the '14 one. Then you have guys like Wolf come into '14 young stars, being even more of an overager/ experienced pro and he not only buys into the team system but excels in the tourny. The young stars tourny was the first time this year Baer was noticeably being passed by other prospects, so basically right out of the gate.

The more I think of it the more i look back and see the entitled attitude and lack of team chemistry that just meant he wouldn't have been a good fit with the Flames' "Team first" and "always earned" mantras short term. 5 years from now with some maturity he may find those two things though, and with his upside that's when we may be loathing this trade.

 

[herashak]

one of granlund or bart had to go imo. more i think about it the more im fine with this deal

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Granlund and Sven are a little different, but similar skilled players and would essentially fill the same role. I can't see Granlund playing center for us ever unless Backlund is shipped out at some point. He's not going to play over Monahan, Backlund or Bennett. And you don't want a guy like that playing on your 4th line. Heck, I'd say Shore is almost ahead of him for centers as well because Shore has excellent size and is good at FO's. So I think it's inevitable that he will be moved to the wing.

To this point in their pro careers, Granlund has been much better than Sven. I think Granlund could develop into 40-50 point winger. While Sven has a higher ceiling, he hasn't really shown us that he projects to be more than that either. If I had a choice of keeping Granlund or Sven, I would of kept of Sven for his ceiling but it's not as if the difference is huge.

 

[The Rainman]

You know what, you make some great points. Fair enough. Reading your post and thinking about it, yeah I suppose Feaster does deserve some of the blame.

The team that you Flame fans love and yes I enjoy watching them also but a lot of it was put put together by Feaster.

 

[Anglesmith]

The team that you Flame fans love and yes I enjoy watching them also but a lot of it was put put together by Feaster.

Is that supposed to mean he didn't make any mistakes? How is this relevant?

 

[BVicious]

Obviously I am a big Sven fan and hate to see him go.

But I am a bigger Flames fan, so if it's for the better that he is gone, then so be it.

The hard part is wishing Sven luck. I can't do that.

 

[1989]

There's some pretty good insight on HFCanuck's Baertschi trade thread.
Basically, it's made me feel like Benning shouldn't have pulled the trigger from their perspective.

 

[Taranis]

Haven't read any of that but I'm interested as to why. I mean a 2nd rounder, a late one at that is a pretty decent gamble for a top six winger.

 

[CraigsList]

There's some pretty good insight on HFCanuck's Baertschi trade thread.
Basically, it's made me feel like Benning shouldn't have pulled the trigger from their perspective.

I didn't even know they had quite a bit of players waiver eligible, including Baertschi. That's not a good sign.

 

[1989]

Haven't read any of that but I'm interested as to why. I mean a 2nd rounder, a late one at that is a pretty decent gamble for a top six winger.

They've got a few entering waiver eligibility of their own soon (Vey, Jensen, Pedan, Corrado) and that's before acquiring Baertschi from their longtime rival while spending a 2nd round pick. Also, they feel like their organization has mishandled Kassian's development to a point just as much as Calgary mishandled Baertschi's, and that could be an issue in the near future.

Of course, with different players and different situations, it might never be a problem, but it's interesting to see how they analyze the trade because the Canucks acquired a known asset whereas the Flames did not.

Basically I asked:

Can I ask if you guys feel like Benning made a small misstep in acquiring Baertschi if you already have the following players in the same boat regarding waiver-eligible prospects all in the same year?

I have heard some Vancouver fans gripe about the loss of the second round pick but didn't really understand why - the pick has less than 20% chance to play an impactful amount of games in the NHL. But learning of your waiver-eligible assets next season, I can see why it could be a problem.

And the most succinct answer:

Yeah pretty much. Baertschi on his own is fine and dandy. But he has also traded picks for Vey and Clendening who are waiver ineligible, and soon will have Jensen, Corrado and Pedan in that boat. He'll have to guarantee all of these guy's spots or lose them for peanuts.

 

[Taranis]

Ah that makes sense I'm on page three right now, thanks.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

They could leave them in the minors like what Detroit does, the players just have to suck it up. It's working out for Detroit. If they can't make the team send them back down. Vancouver needs these guys in the 21-26 year old and not 18 year olds that they have to wait for a few years for. Some of these guys will make it into the line up in 1-3 years.

If they didn't trade for these guys they would be in the same boat down the road in few years when they start accumulating prospects like Calgary.

 

[Lunatik]

They could leave them in the minors like what Detroit does, the players just have to suck it up. It's working out for Detroit. If they can't make the team send them back down. Vancouver needs these guys in the 21-26 year old and not 18 year olds that they have to wait for a few years for. Some of these guys will make it into the line up in 1-3 years.

If they didn't trade for these guys they would be in the same boat down the road in few years when they start accumulating prospects like Calgary.

they have to clear waivers to be sent to the minors though, that's the problem. It's the same problem we will have with Granlund, Ferland, Reinhart and Shore.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

they have to clear waivers to be sent to the minors though, that's the problem. It's the same problem we will have with Granlund, Ferland, Reinhart and Shore.

Ah. I see.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

I don't see why Vancouver's (fans) so mad about losing a 2nd rounder. They haven't drafted anything of substance in the 2nd round in along time.

2007:LHD Taylor Ellington last played in Denmark in 2013-14
2008:LHD Yann Sauve bouncing around AHL/ECHL 2014-15
2009:W Anton Rodin playing Swedish Hockey League (SHL) 2014-15
2010:Traded
2011:Traded
2012:C/W Alexandre Mallet Playing in ECHL 2014-15
2013:Traded
2014:G Thatcher Demko still in college 2014-15

 

[Lunatik]

I don't see why Vancouver's (fans) so mad about losing a 2nd rounder. They haven't drafted anything of substance in the 2nd round in along time.

2007:LHD Taylor Ellington last played in Denmark in 2013-14
2008:LHD Yann Sauve bouncing around AHL/ECHL 2014-15
2009:W Anton Rodin playing Swedish Hockey League (SHL) 2014-15
2010:Traded
2011:Traded
2012:C/W Alexandre Mallet Playing in ECHL 2014-15
2013:Traded
2014:G Thatcher Demko still in college 2014-15

I think Demko will be a stud

 

[Johnny GODreau]

I think Demko will be a stud

He does seem promising. But once again still too early.

 

[Lunatik]

He does seem promising. But once again still too early.

No earlier than us getting excited about Gilles at the end of his 2nd NCAA season. Demko was the guy I wanted with our 1st second round pick last year, He had a great freshman year in his draft year which is unheard of. He has been even better this year as a sophomore.

 

[InfinityIggy]

No earlier than us getting excited about Gilles at the end of his 2nd NCAA season. Demko was the guy I wanted with our 1st second round pick last year, He had a great freshman year in his draft year which is unheard of. He has been even better this year as a sophomore.

We agree on something...this is weird.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

No earlier than us getting excited about Gilles at the end of his 2nd NCAA season. Demko was the guy I wanted with our 1st second round pick last year, He had a great freshman year in his draft year which is unheard of. He has been even better this year as a sophomore.

Product of Gaudreau

I wanted him too with the first 2nd rounder. I like the idea of stashing goalies elsewhere.