Confirmed with Link: Baertschi Traded to Vancouver for 2nd Round Pick 2015

[StreakingRed]

People will blame Feaster of r stunting his development my guaranteeing him a roster spot last year. But Sven came into rookie camp and was awful and reportedly felt like he was too good to be in rookie camp, then he came into main camp and was very bad. Feaster made a mistake by gifting him a roster spot; but that is no excuse for Sven coming into Camp unprepared.

This can't be stated enough.

Personally, I don't put any blame on Feaster. At the time, Baertschi was the only bright spot in an otherwise empty cupboard of prospects. I can understand the organization being eager to give him a shot, especially in an emergency call up situation. It was up to the player to make the most of the opportunity. He sure did during that 5 game stint but I guess he figured he had made the NHL off of that stint. Baertschi not being here is 100% on Baertschi, IMO. No one else to blame but him.

 

[Anglesmith]

This can't be stated enough.

Personally, I don't put any blame on Feaster. At the time, Baertschi was the only bright spot in an otherwise empty cupboard of prospects. I can understand the organization being eager to give him a shot, especially in an emergency call up situation. It was up to the player to make the most of the opportunity. He sure did during that 5 game stint but I guess he figured he had made the NHL off of that stint. Baertschi not being here is 100% on Baertschi, IMO. No one else to blame but him.

No blame whatsoever? By that logic, Oilers management deserves no blame for the Oilers being the Oilers. Heck, even Feaster blamed Feaster for the handling of Baertschi just before he got fired!

Listen, I'm as much a supporter of what Feaster did here as anyone on this board, but I cannot ignore the mistakes made in the development of Sven Baertschi. I don't think the 5 game emergency recall was a mistake because it was the best option at the time. But everything from the following off-season on was an absolute trainwreck in prospect development.

Yes, Baertschi coasted through the off-season. That's on Baertschi, because he had a choice there and he chose to take it easy. First of all, though, that usually isn't seen in prospects who have had solid communication with management to make it clear that they need to earn their way onto the roster. That attitude displayed that summer seems to indicate that Baertschi was already expecting a roster spot regardless of his play, and if that's the case (I'm not saying necessarily it's true, but it seems that way) then that's 100% the fault of management. It's an organization's job to motivate its players, and a lack of motivation was very evident in Sven's off-season work.

Second of all, once he had performed poorly all through dev. and main camp that year, the organization still had a chance to use that as a lesson and start him off in the minors to show that more is expected of him. That choice was 100% up to Feaster to make. He chose to reward him with a roster spot, thus sending the message that his effort level was not correlated with how the organization treated him. The upshot of this was that when he did get sent down despite having picked up his effort, it felt unjustified and didn't make sense to him.

At the end of the day, we can blame the players all we want, but if an organization treated every prospect this way, they would only have themselves to blame when every single one of them turned out to be lazy and wanted out. Saying the organization made mistakes is not absolving Sven of his own mistakes. But there was a chance to correct that path early on and it was not taken.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Agree that Feaster shares part of the blame. He was responsible for Barts emergency recall, and more importantly essentially gifting Baertschi a roster spot. Its not hard to see why Baertschi might stop putting in a full effort when he was made a bit of a 'golden child' by the Flames.

I also partly blame Burke. Its not that his criticisms were invalid or untrue, however I didn't like how candid he was with the media about the whole situation. I think a lot of what he said should have been between him Baertschi and the other staff in the Flames org only. I think it sends a bad message to call out a player in the media like that. You can argue that Burke was trying to give Sven a 'kick in the butt' to get him going, but at the end of the day it doesn't look like it helped him at all.

Finally the rest of the blame is on Sven himself, he had several years here to put together a consistent stretch of play and only really started to gain some consistency late this season in the AHL. By then it was too little too late, he wanted out, management wasn't convinced by his recent play, and now he has been dealt.

 

[Master Bill]

Agree that Feaster shares part of the blame. He was responsible for Barts emergency recall, and more importantly essentially gifting Baertschi a roster spot. Its not hard to see why Baertschi might stop putting in a full effort when he was made a bit of a 'golden child' by the Flames.

I also partly blame Burke. Its not that his criticisms were invalid or untrue, however I didn't like how candid he was with the media about the whole situation. I think a lot of what he said should have been between him Baertschi and the other staff in the Flames org only. I think it sends a bad message to call out a player in the media like that. You can argue that Burke was trying to give Sven a 'kick in the butt' to get him going, but at the end of the day it doesn't look like it helped him at all.

Finally the rest of the blame is on Sven himself, he had several years here to put together a consistent stretch of play and only really started to gain some consistency late this season in the AHL. By then it was too little too late, he wanted out, management wasn't convinced by his recent play, and now he has been dealt.

I agree with the bit about Burke as well. Everyone knew Sven was not performing up to his standards and he probably knew that as well, but flat out singling him as someone who "needs to be better" to the media is embarrassing for a young player like him honestly. Burke should've kept it within the organization.

 

[StreakingRed]

No blame whatsoever? By that logic, Oilers management deserves no blame for the Oilers being the Oilers. Heck, even Feaster blamed Feaster for the handling of Baertschi just before he got fired!

Listen, I'm as much a supporter of what Feaster did here as anyone on this board, but I cannot ignore the mistakes made in the development of Sven Baertschi. I don't think the 5 game emergency recall was a mistake because it was the best option at the time. But everything from the following off-season on was an absolute trainwreck in prospect development.

Yes, Baertschi coasted through the off-season. That's on Baertschi, because he had a choice there and he chose to take it easy. First of all, though, that usually isn't seen in prospects who have had solid communication with management to make it clear that they need to earn their way onto the roster. That attitude displayed that summer seems to indicate that Baertschi was already expecting a roster spot regardless of his play, and if that's the case (I'm not saying necessarily it's true, but it seems that way) then that's 100% the fault of management. It's an organization's job to motivate its players, and a lack of motivation was very evident in Sven's off-season work.

Second of all, once he had performed poorly all through dev. and main camp that year, the organization still had a chance to use that as a lesson and start him off in the minors to show that more is expected of him. That choice was 100% up to Feaster to make. He chose to reward him with a roster spot, thus sending the message that his effort level was not correlated with how the organization treated him. The upshot of this was that when he did get sent down despite having picked up his effort, it felt unjustified and didn't make sense to him.

At the end of the day, we can blame the players all we want, but if an organization treated every prospect this way, they would only have themselves to blame when every single one of them turned out to be lazy and wanted out. Saying the organization made mistakes is not absolving Sven of his own mistakes. But there was a chance to correct that path early on and it was not taken.

You know what, you make some great points. Fair enough. Reading your post and thinking about it, yeah I suppose Feaster does deserve some of the blame.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Agree that Feaster shares part of the blame. He was responsible for Barts emergency recall, and more importantly essentially gifting Baertschi a roster spot. Its not hard to see why Baertschi might stop putting in a full effort when he was made a bit of a 'golden child' by the Flames.

I also partly blame Burke. Its not that his criticisms were invalid or untrue, however I didn't like how candid he was with the media about the whole situation. I think a lot of what he said should have been between him Baertschi and the other staff in the Flames org only. I think it sends a bad message to call out a player in the media like that. You can argue that Burke was trying to give Sven a 'kick in the butt' to get him going, but at the end of the day it doesn't look like it helped him at all.

Finally the rest of the blame is on Sven himself, he had several years here to put together a consistent stretch of play and only really started to gain some consistency late this season in the AHL. By then it was too little too late, he wanted out, management wasn't convinced by his recent play, and now he has been dealt.

I'm not disagreeing with you about Burke, but to play Devils advocate I'm going to bring up this point. Look at Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf, how harsh is the media on them? That is an extreme example, but my point is players need to be able to take some criticism. Was Burke a little to hard on Sven, I would say that's a fair point. But what's the biggest knock on Sven, it's that he's mentally fragile. Every player is going to experience high and lows, not only in their career, but in each season. If Sven can't learn to toughen up, he's never going to be a regular in the NHL. He needs to stay more on an even plane and not let him game be so affected by everything that is going on around him.

I'll end in saying that I think Burke could of definitely handled that different, but at the same time I think it really brought to light on what Baertschi's biggest issue was.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

No blame whatsoever? By that logic, Oilers management deserves no blame for the Oilers being the Oilers. Heck, even Feaster blamed Feaster for the handling of Baertschi just before he got fired!

Listen, I'm as much a supporter of what Feaster did here as anyone on this board, but I cannot ignore the mistakes made in the development of Sven Baertschi. I don't think the 5 game emergency recall was a mistake because it was the best option at the time. But everything from the following off-season on was an absolute trainwreck in prospect development.

Yes, Baertschi coasted through the off-season. That's on Baertschi, because he had a choice there and he chose to take it easy. First of all, though, that usually isn't seen in prospects who have had solid communication with management to make it clear that they need to earn their way onto the roster. That attitude displayed that summer seems to indicate that Baertschi was already expecting a roster spot regardless of his play, and if that's the case (I'm not saying necessarily it's true, but it seems that way) then that's 100% the fault of management. It's an organization's job to motivate its players, and a lack of motivation was very evident in Sven's off-season work.

Second of all, once he had performed poorly all through dev. and main camp that year, the organization still had a chance to use that as a lesson and start him off in the minors to show that more is expected of him. That choice was 100% up to Feaster to make. He chose to reward him with a roster spot, thus sending the message that his effort level was not correlated with how the organization treated him. The upshot of this was that when he did get sent down despite having picked up his effort, it felt unjustified and didn't make sense to him.

At the end of the day, we can blame the players all we want, but if an organization treated every prospect this way, they would only have themselves to blame when every single one of them turned out to be lazy and wanted out. Saying the organization made mistakes is not absolving Sven of his own mistakes. But there was a chance to correct that path early on and it was not taken.

Good post sir, I think that's a very accurate account of what happened.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I'm not disagreeing with you about Burke, but to play Devils advocate I'm going to bring up this point. Look at Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf, how harsh is the media on them?

The difference with Phil and Dijon is that its the media being hard on them, not their own (GM/President) being hard on them to the media. Pretty big difference I think. Also I do think the media has played a role in Toronto's issues becoming a competitive team.

 

[Pizza the Hutt]

D) I would have taken much less to send him to the East. I'm shocked NJ wouldn't offer a depth defensive prospect for him (maybe they did I don't know) but I'm disgusted to have traded such a talented player to a rival.

This. Either a very weird bush-league move by Treliving or a stroke of Machiavellian brilliance as he's 100% confident Sven is a total bust. We'll find out soon but if Sven turns into the player he was projected to be, I don't know how Treliving recovers.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

The difference with Phil and Dijon is that its the media being hard on them, not their own (GM/President) being hard on them to the media. Pretty big difference I think. Also I do think the media has played a role in Toronto's issues becoming a competitive team.

It is different and I stated I think was probably a little extreme, but it's still public criticism. I'll be interested to see how Sven handles it when the media rips him during a cold stretch.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Nothing will be done unless the media actually brings one of them to tears.

 

[Volica]

This. Either a very weird bush-league move by Treliving or a stroke of Machiavellian brilliance as he's 100% confident Sven is a total bust. We'll find out soon but if Sven turns into the player he was projected to be, I don't know how Treliving recovers.

If he's a top 6 winger for them consistently next year; we ****ed up.

If he performs like I think he'll perform... I think it'll be okay. I can see him being a 30-35 point guy in a top 6 role, then in a middle 6 role next year... Nothing Calgary can't live without.

I really hope we do something good with that second we got.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

If he's a top 6 winger for them consistently next year; we ****ed up.

If he performs like I think he'll perform... I think it'll be okay. I can see him being a 30-35 point guy in a top 6 role, then in a middle 6 role next year... Nothing Calgary can't live without.

I really hope we do something good with that second we got.

Honestly at this point, I don't think he projects to be any better than Granlund. I fully expect Grannie to move to the wing and I actually think he has higher upside at that position than Sven. Granlund is more of a sniper.

 

[CraigsList]

Honestly at this point, I don't think he projects to be any better than Granlund. I fully expect Grannie to move to the wing and I actually think he has higher upside at that position than Sven. Granlund is more of a sniper.

I think a Granlund - Shore - Poirier line would be pretty sweet to watch.

 

[701]

If he's a top 6 winger for them consistently next year; we ****ed up.

If he performs like I think he'll perform... I think it'll be okay. I can see him being a 30-35 point guy in a top 6 role, then in a middle 6 role next year... Nothing Calgary can't live without.

I really hope we do something good with that second we got.

Canucks fan here, thinking you guys are pretty safe with this deal. Maybe a 20% chance the guy
turns into a a top-6 or middle-6 winger, given his lack of real speed and board play, and the injury
and mood histories. A mid-to-late 2nd rounder yields a chance something like 20% of landing a
useful player, so basically it's a wash. Benning loved this guy when he got drafted, but that was
several years ago. Any Canuck fans who are ecstatic about this deal are delusional, as are Flames fans
who hate it. In the end, both teams are likely to be disappointed by their final results. Benning took a
chance based on liking the guy a whole lot at the draft, and the long odds of a 2nd to begin with.

You guys are probably best off to use the 2nd in a trade for a known player you really need, thus avoiding the risk inherent in a non-first draft pick. That way, you can do well, while the Canucks have a big risk on their hands. But if Sven doesn't work out for the Canucks, given their lousy 2nd pick history until drafting Demko last year, the 2nd in 2015 very possibly wouldn't have worked out anyway. Benning has merely shortened the time before the outcome of that 2nd, for the Canucks, is known.

 

[Volica]

Canucks fan here, thinking you guys are pretty safe with this deal. Maybe a 20% chance the guy
turns into a a top-6 or middle-6 winger, given his lack of real speed and board play, and the injury
and mood histories. A mid-to-late 2nd rounder yields a chance something like 20% of landing a
useful player, so basically it's a wash. Benning loved this guy when he got drafted, but that was
several years ago. Any Canuck fans who are ecstatic about this deal are delusional, as are Flames fans
who hate it. In the end, both teams are likely to be disappointed by their final results. Benning took a
chance based on liking the guy a whole lot at the draft, and the long odds of a 2nd to begin with.

You guys are probably best off to use the 2nd in a trade for a known player you really need, thus avoiding the risk inherent in a non-first draft pick. That way, you can do well, while the Canucks have a big risk on their hands. But if Sven doesn't work out for the Canucks, given their lousy 2nd pick history until drafting Demko last year, the 2nd in 2015 very possibly wouldn't have worked out anyway. Benning has merely shortened the time before the outcome of that 2nd, for the Canucks, is known.

I'm hoping Calgary uses this second along with any of their other ones to either get back into the first round or move up in the first round.

There are two players hovering around that 10 mark that I would absolutely love Calgary to snag.

 

[Taranis]

It would be nice to see these seconds packaged with some of our log jammed talent for better drafting position. After this coming draft I think we should be good to go, all be it still needing that top pairing defensemen prospect.

 

[DFF]

Honestly at this point, I don't think he projects to be any better than Granlund. I fully expect Grannie to move to the wing and I actually think he has higher upside at that position than Sven. Granlund is more of a sniper.

I dont know. I think both of them have a long way to go to prove themselves

I am not sold on Granlund as a lot of people here. It still can go either way with him.

Baertschi has a lot of talent but he's been going backward for 2 yrs.
So maybe he is just a good jr player that cant translate to the pro
It's 50/50 with him.

 

[Volica]

One of the things that I've been really thinking about the past couple days; is why Calgary really didn't pad Sven's stats if the offers were that poor on him.

I know this teams motto is earn never given; but if I was actively trying to get the best return for someone; I'd give him some PP time, some zone starts and easy minutes... Have him play 13-15 minutes a night at the NHL level and hope he could produce at a .4-.5 ppg pace. Just so at the trade deadline I could be saying: "hey look, this kid has played 40-50 game this season, his points are no longer splits... This is how he can produce."

Just a thought. And of course if he cannot produce; then you can always just trade him for this similar return.

 

[CraigsList]

One of the things that I've been really thinking about the past couple days; is why Calgary really didn't pad Sven's stats if the offers were that poor on him.

I know this teams motto is earn never given; but if I was actively trying to get the best return for someone; I'd give him some PP time, some zone starts and easy minutes... Have him play 13-15 minutes a night at the NHL level and hope he could produce at a .4-.5 ppg pace. Just so at the trade deadline I could be saying: "hey look, this kid has played 40-50 game this season, his points are no longer splits... This is how he can produce."

Just a thought. And of course if he cannot produce; then you can always just trade him for this similar return.

That's just not how the Flames roll. You will earn your minutes.

 

[Lunatik]

That's just not how the Flames roll. You will earn your minutes.

That's not how anyone rolls. A good couple weeks won't change someone's trade value much if at all.

 

[DCDM]

That's just not how the Flames roll. You will earn your minutes.

Kind of hard to earn your minutes when you're an offensive player playing with Bollig and McGrattan, like Baertschi was.

The fact we got a 2nd round pick is impressive, to be honest. Canucks were paying for Sven's potential, not what he's done up to this point. If they wanted someone to do what he's done, they have Dorsett for that.

 

[CraigsList]

That's not how anyone rolls. A good couple weeks won't change someone's trade value much if at all.

I know. But I was saying that we weren't just going to give Sven middle 6 minutes in hoping that he scores to up his trade value. It never happens.

 

[DCDM]

I know. But I was saying that we weren't just going to give Sven middle 6 minutes in hoping that he scores to up his trade value. It never happens.

If the Flames suddenly gave Sven middle 6 minutes and he started scoring like we would have wanted, he wouldn't have asked for a trade IMO.

 

[CraigsList]

Kind of hard to earn your minutes when you're an offensive player playing with Bollig and McGrattan, like Baertschi was.

The fact we got a 2nd round pick is impressive, to be honest. Canucks were paying for Sven's potential, not what he's done up to this point. If they wanted someone to do what he's done, they have Dorsett for that.

Jooris started from the 4th line and worked himself up. Sven could have easily done the same, but didn't.