Babcock thread: Decision Expected 5/20/15 (SEE MOD WARNING IN OP AND POST 568)

[Claypool]

im curious to see this team move on but at the same time not ready to see a new coach come in and totally **** the bed and stopping another chance for Z and D to get another cup

Jon Cooper has even less AHL experience than Blashill does and he just beat Babcock in a 7 game series where their star player didn't even get a goal. I don't know what everyone is worried about. Blashill is a great coach that knows the roster very well. There's no reason to believe he'll come in and totally bomb out.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Jon Cooper has even less AHL experience than Blashill does and he just beat Babcock in a 7 game series where their star player didn't even get a goal. I don't know what everyone is worried about. Blashill is a great coach that knows the roster very well. There's no reason to believe he'll come in and totally bomb out.

I honestly don't think Cooper did anything this series. Did he make a single adjustment? Tampa played exactly how Babcock wanted them too, and if this team had a little more talent, it would have worked. This series did not make Cooper look like a good coach.

 

[Claypool]

while i dont disagree with your analogy its the figurehead who you have as dan cleary that i think is wrong, its ken holland...

this is KH's roster and its this roster that isnt a playoff roster without babcock

this roster isnt a top roster, its defence is/was easily the worst of all 16 playoff teams and likely a few non-playoff teams and we dont have enough size and skill combined with size anywhere on the roster

You're overvaluing Babcock's influence on this team making the post season. I believe Blashill would have also made the playoffs this season. But whatever.

Not going to disagree with this roster not being elite. Of course it isn't. But it's also way better than it was two years ago and certainly looks a lot more promising. It's young, fast, and generally pretty exciting to watch on a nightly basis. There seems to be an abundance of promising forwards up front, some young steady guys on the blueline, and an budding elite netminder on the backend. I still like the direction this team is going.

Of course, they need help on the blueline, but nearly every team does. The only thing I'll praise Holland for is sticking with his retooling plan and not trading away young assets for bandaids like he has in the past. Add guys like Mantha, Larkin, Bertuzzi, etc in a few more seasons and they'll be looking good.

 

[vladdy16]

while i dont disagree with your analogy its the figurehead who you have as dan cleary that i think is wrong, its ken holland...

this is KH's roster and its this roster that isnt a playoff roster without babcock

this roster isnt a top roster, its defence is/was easily the worst of all 16 playoff teams and likely a few non-playoff teams and we dont have enough size and skill combined with size anywhere on the roster

Interesting, think we all see similar problems, and it is a different figure head for each, because I see Babcock as being a serious contributer to the rosters mediocrity.

Either way, some sort of change is in order.

 

[vladdy16]

I honestly don't think Cooper did anything this series. Did he make a single adjustment? Tampa played exactly how Babcock wanted them too, and if this team had a little more talent, it would have worked. This series did not make Cooper look like a good coach.

Don't you think, with this series playing out how Babcock intended, if the roster had more talent, to some extent that talent would be watching glendenning and miller play all night?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

You're overvaluing Babcock's influence on this team making the post season. I believe Blashill would have also made the playoffs this season. But whatever.

Not going to disagree with this roster not being elite. Of course it isn't. But it's also way better than it was two years ago and certainly looks a lot more promising. It's young, fast, and generally pretty exciting to watch on a nightly basis. There seems to be an abundance of promising forwards up front, some young steady guys on the blueline, and an budding elite netminder on the backend. I still like the direction this team is going.

Of course, they need help on the blueline, but nearly every team does. The only thing I'll praise Holland for is sticking with his retooling plan and not trading away young assets for bandaids like he has in the past.

i cant say what hollands team will look like down the line anymore then i can say how successful babcock would be coaching "that" team.

all i can speak of is what i have seen and the past few years its babcocks creative coaching moreso than hollands creative roster building that has lended itself to whatever success we have had.

i think holland is great with the draft and all that goes with that(hiring staff/scouts) and implementing a development strategy, etc

but, this roster has needed babcock more then babcock has needed it

we can agree to disagree

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Don't you think, with this series playing out how Babcock intended, if the roster had more talent, to some extent that talent would be watching glendenning and miller play all night?

I would like to believe Babcock would have used his best judgment and would have been more open to going on offense more if he trusted the defense.

 

[Classicnamesup]

Think some ppl underestimate Mike here but I still think the time has come. Hopefully we can get a good replacement or we will really regret it.

Also wouldn't mind seeing him go somewhere and struggle to be honest. Nothing against Mike but hefty demands requires hefty results.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Don't you think, with this series playing out how Babcock intended, if the roster had more talent, to some extent that talent would be watching glendenning and miller play all night?

i think if we had more talent we would be able to run four lines and score more goals to alleviate the need to prevent more goals against(glenny and millers role)

glenny and miller played so much because our roster couldnt score enough so we had to focus more on prevention

 

[Claypool]

i cant say what hollands team will look like down the line anymore then i can say how successful babcock would be coaching "that" team.

all i can speak of is what i have seen and the past few years its babcocks creative coaching moreso than hollands creative roster building that has lended itself to whatever success we have had.

i think holland is great with the draft and all that goes with that(hiring staff/scouts) and implementing a development strategy, etc

but, this roster has needed babcock more then babcock has needed it

we can agree to disagree

What are some creative coaching moves that Babcock has made over the years? Let's hear them.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

What are some creative coaching moves that Babcock has made over the years? Let's hear them.

Played Luke Glendenning 35 minutes a night as an extra defenseman.

 

[Classicnamesup]

He moves undeserving 3rd liners to the top line. Constantly.

He made a good player out of Abby who we thought would be a perennial 3rd liner, Helm was playing well. If we had an actual top line player on that line though, would the team be better?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

What are some creative coaching moves that Babcock has made over the years? Let's hear them.

you seriously need/want me to list how the DRW play the game today vs 8years ago?

if you dont honestly feel babcock has had to adjust the way he coaches the DRW based on the roster then that says everything

 

[Claypool]

you seriously need/want me to list how the DRW play the game today vs 8years ago?

if you dont honestly feel babcock has had to adjust the way he coaches the DRW based on the roster then that says everything

For the past few seasons, like you said. I believe there are more questionable coaching moves that Babcock made the last three seasons then there are creative ones. I'm sure most would agree.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Jon Cooper has even less AHL experience than Blashill does and he just beat Babcock in a 7 game series where their star player didn't even get a goal. I don't know what everyone is worried about. Blashill is a great coach that knows the roster very well. There's no reason to believe he'll come in and totally bomb out.

woah, cooper did jack

tampas roster is just better then ours all around and its why they could win despite stamkos doing nothing and cooper being outcoached

babcock coaching the bolts and cooper coaching this wings team and its a 4-0 sweep of detroit

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Cooper won game Six for the lighting. Took babs off guard that entire game by switching his lines.

Babs made a couple good moves this playoff run, and a couple of bad ones. Id rather take my chance with Blash.

Blash = Uses their scorers to their full potential, Grinders will stay Grinders

Babs = Tries to make Grinders into Scorers some of them have worked (Abdelkader/Helm) and makes Scorers into Grinders (Hudler/Filppula) and doesnt do anything with the players like Nyquist and Tatar.

Babs is best suited for teams like St Louis and those playoff grindy teams

Blash is best suited for. Kind of everything. Scorers should be scorers, Grinders should be grinders.

Take a couple of scorers and try to make them two way players thats fine. But if it doesnt work stop trying to do it.

 

[Psychoil]

guys question for you, on a scale of 1-10, how sure are you that babcock is leaving the detroit organization. I feel like the media is making it seem bigger than it is. But has he not proven he still belongs here? Not sure why everyone is quick to say hes out the door. IS there something I don't know?

ps: I am an oilers fan trying to comprehend the thought of babcock becoming avaliable, and possibly coaching the oilers which would be a dream come true for us. I think I speak on behalf of the majority of oiler fans when we say we would of rather had a management and coaching change than connor mcdavid

 

[wingfan]

or the team babcock said 9 months ago wasnt a playoff team?

you think this exact roster minus mike babcock and in with jeff blashill makes the playoffs and goes further then game 7?

to each their own but i give the nhls top coach more credit than that

You mean the same Jeff Blashill who led the Griffins to a Calder Cup in his first season and has continued to have success when Detroit depleted his roster month after month over almost the entire course of his coaching career in GR? if Babcock leaves and Blashill is not the next coach of the Wings I'll be done watching Detroit hockey until Holland resigns...

 

[wingfan]

guys question for you, on a scale of 1-10, how sure are you that babcock is leaving the detroit organization. I feel like the media is making it seem bigger than it is. But has he not proven he still belongs here? Not sure why everyone is quick to say hes out the door. IS there something I don't know?

ps: I am an oilers fan trying to comprehend the thought of babcock becoming avaliable, and possibly coaching the oilers which would be a dream come true for us. I think I speak on behalf of the majority of oiler fans when we say we would of rather had a management and coaching change than connor mcdavid

A lot of people, including the media here, are at a solid 10. I don't think it's 100% he walks. I'd say about a 6? We know he loves Detroit and the organization but what his real motive is I don't think anyone has the slightest clue, no matter what they think or say. I know this for sure, Babcock wants to win, and if he feels Kenny is just kicking the "blow it up and rebuild" can down the road with patches and quick fixes to keep the playoff streak alive he's as good as gone. There's also a very legitimate possibility that Datsyuk is done after this next season. Does Babcock really want to watch as we lose our franchise center to retirement while Holland does nothing, much like he did when Lidstrom hung them up?

 

[SpookyTsuki]

A lot of people, including the media here, are at a solid 10. I don't think it's 100% he walks. I'd say about a 6? We know he loves Detroit and the organization but what his real motive is I don't think anyone has the slightest clue, no matter what they think or say. I know this for sure, Babcock wants to win, and if he feels Kenny is just kicking the "blow it up and rebuild" can down the road with patches and quick fixes to keep the playoff streak alive he's as good as gone. There's also a very legitimate possibility that Datsyuk is done after this next season. Does Babcock really want to watch as we lose our franchise center to retirement while Holland does nothing, much like he did when Lidstrom hung them up?

Datsyuk isnt gone after next season. Unless he gets a really bad injury. He still has fun, and Is the best player on the team. He will play out his contract


Z on the other hand.. Might be done in 2 or 3 years.

 

[golffuul]

The difference in this series is less about the coaches, than it is more about the players their respective GM's were able to give them to compete. It is clear from Babcock's statements after the game, that the personnel he had was not the personnel he wanted for this team. He even said on a number of occasions, that he was overruled by Holland on several decisions (one of which was most likely re-signing Quincey and not letting Ouellet play the season). So unless Holland gives Babcock control over those kinds of roster decisions, he will not re-sign. And I think, at this point, Holland's ego is too big to give Babcock that kind of authority over the roster.

Babcock even said it best when he said, "...we’ve been drafting good, we’ve been developing good, but we’ve been winning too much. That’s the facts.”

That had to be a jab at Holland for putting together teams that make the playoffs, but can't compete. And if Holland isn't ready to compete...then he will go elsewhere.

Ultimately, we will find out a bit of what Babcock thinks (even though he will likely not say anything concrete), in a couple days when he has his end of season press conference. I expect him to say that he will take a couple weeks with his family to think about what's best. With his dad dying I think it complicates things a bit more, in the short term, and that he will need some perspective and a bit of wooing from other teams before he ultimately decides what he wants.

Who knows...he might just be coach of the Oilers, when it's all said and done. He already has a relationship with Nicholson and Chiarelli.

 

[golffuul]

Datsyuk isnt gone after next season. Unless he gets a really bad injury. He still has fun, and Is the best player on the team. He will play out his contract


Z on the other hand.. Might be done in 2 or 3 years.

Datsyuk will be gone when his contract is up. Bank on it. He will be almost 40 and will want to wind down his career like Fedorov did.

 

[TatarTangle]

Gonna back Babcock. He can take a talentless team and get them to game 7. It isn't his fault he has no goal scores to play with. All he has to play around with is Datsyuk. That's about it. Can't say he's done bad.

Wouldn't be opposed with a new look though. God help that guy though

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Datsyuk will be gone when his contract is up. Bank on it. He will be almost 40 and will want to wind down his career like Fedorov did.

I know. were lucky if he plays for 1 more year after his contract is up.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Gonna back Babcock. He can take a talentless team and get them to game 7. It isn't his fault he has no goal scores to play with. All he has to play around with is Datsyuk. That's about it. Can't say he's done bad.

Wouldn't be opposed with a new look though. God help that guy though

He has two 30+ goal scorers (pretty much) and makes them play a Grinder role. Though Nyquist should start being held accountable REALLY SOON if not now.