Babcock thread: Decision Expected 5/20/15 (SEE MOD WARNING IN OP AND POST 568)

[SimplySolace]

http://www.tsn.ca/thumbs-down-to-babcock-s-blast-up-to-conn-men-1.270918

 

[Chex LeMeneux]

Yep.

I like Babcock but in reality it's time for both parties to move on. Coaches simply don't stay in one place this long....even the great ones. Time to get a new voice and a new philosophy in here. Preferably a coach who is more willing to change the playing style of his team to fit his personnel. Dump and chase doesn't work with this roster.

I also don't think the grind it out sludgefest that Babcock preaches should be our go to strategy either. Those comments he made a year or so ago about how we should only be winning games by a goal, tell me all I need to know at this point. One thing about Blashill, his strategy, at it's best, has been predicated on speed. Playing smart hockey at a high rate of speed is the natural direction (and identity) this team should be striving towards given almost all of our prospects have both decent hockey IQ and above average skating. I still believe Babcock has a good hockey mind, I'm just not confident his strategy will evolve with the team.

Now before people start saying we don't have the defensive personnel for that, I'm aware our defense needs upgrading. However, the guys in GR most responsible for their transition game (Marchenko, Ouellet, etc.) should be up here soon. That and Holland needs to go hard after Green.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I think that everyone has watched Babs for too long. The guys a great coach but he has flaws and everyone is just sick of him at this point. Will our next coach be better? probably not, but at least we'll be getting a fresh set of things to complain about. I almost don't remember what it's like having a different coach.

 

[Mister Ed]

I feel Babcock has become the Filppula of a couple of years ago. He's good, but the team needs a change. I think he moves on and coaches in Philly.

Blashill is the perfect replacement, having taught the kids in Grand Rapids.

Still frazzled about the loss yesterday to completly grasp the idea of not having any more playoff hockey, let alone a new coach, but it is what it is.

 

[Frk It]

Anyone else see this? I hadn't until now.

“We have lots of good, young players, no question about it. And we’ve got some good ones coming. But who’s going to replace [Datsyuk]?” he asked. “I don’t think [Datsyuk] is going anywhere right away, but that’s what you’ve got to do. You’ve got to have big time players up the middle and on the back to be successful. So those are questions that our organization works toward, we’ve been drafting good, we’ve been developing good, but we’ve been winning too much. That’s the facts.”

I find the bolded comments very interesting.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/...ss-his-future-but-questions-wings-composition

 

[GBFP]

Babcock's remarks tell me he's gone - it's a superstar league and Detroit isn't getting any superstars always getting in the playoffs and then making an early exit. It's like the playoff streak and being a treadmill team is more important than winning long term - even if that means missing the playoffs big in a rebuild year or two and getting a high draft pick.

Holland seems unwilling to trade "his boys" to get a superstar in here - he should look to trade any/all prospects to get a superstar level player that is available for whatever reason. But Holland wants to keep lifers it seems, to have players drafted by him retire here. Only prospects he seems to trade anymore are ones who don't want to wait their turn in the minors. Only players that leave are ones that won't take the hometown discount.

You could shake up the roster with a major trade - but Holland won't do that, which is why Babcock is going to leave. One or the other had to happen.

Blashill will surely be the next coach here unless Hitchcock is fired maybe. But I suspect it will be Blashill, with an old hand coach as his top assistant.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Anyone else see this? I hadn't until now.



I find the bolded comments very interesting.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/...ss-his-future-but-questions-wings-composition

One thing you gotta give Babs: he doesn't ********. He gives it to you straight. Now if Ken Holland could make trades and acquire guys like Tyler Seguin, Jay Bouwmeester or Tyler Myers - who have all been traded over the past couple years - then you have a clear answer to those questions.

However Holland doesn't do major trades since the cap was implemented so the only answer is to not win so much and get some good draft picks. That's the road we're headed down.

 

[YostisHome]

You don't have to bash or hate the outgoing coach to like the new one ....just leave it as change is probably best for both parties.

 

[DRW204]

is it possible to trade coaches in the NHL like they do in other sports (ie: NFL Jon Gruden, NBA Doc Rivers)

 

[Kyleftlx]

I really wish Holland could have made a push for Seguin - that would be a godsend to this organization. It isn't often that a young, top 3 pick is just available for trade like that without a massive overpay. There's 28 teams kicking themselves for not pushing harder for Seguin, I'd bet, and there's one team kicking themselves for letting him go.

I truly hope this is the offseason Kenny puts his reputation on the line and makes some big moves. I don't know what you have to lose, other than obviously a 25th straight playoff appearance, which doesn't mean a whole lot if you continue getting knocked out immediately after getting in.

I still hope Babcock comes back, but this offseason is much more important than any coach that you can hire - it doesn't matter who is behind the bench if your team doesn't improve between this year and next.

 

[Frk It]

I really wish Holland could have made a push for Seguin - that would be a godsend to this organization. It isn't often that a young, top 3 pick is just available for trade like that without a massive overpay. There's 28 teams kicking themselves for not pushing harder for Seguin, I'd bet, and there's one team kicking themselves for letting him go.

I truly hope this is the offseason Kenny puts his reputation on the line and makes some big moves. I don't know what you have to lose, other than obviously a 25th straight playoff appearance, which doesn't mean a whole lot if you continue getting knocked out immediately after getting in.

I still hope Babcock comes back, but this offseason is much more important than any coach that you can hire - it doesn't matter who is behind the bench if your team doesn't improve between this year and next.

We had nothing comparable to offer to what Lou Eriksson was at the time. Which was a 27 year old 70 point, two way winger on a great contract.

Holland has done moves for the last 5 years to make the team just as good as the year prior. He keeps making the playoffs and has all the job security in the world. I don't see him changing his tactics at all. He's not going to just go out of his comfort zone all of a sudden.

 

[Kyleftlx]

We had nothing comparable to offer to what Lou Eriksson was at the time. Which was a 27 year old 70 point, two way winger on a great contract.

Holland has done moves for the last 5 years to make the team just as good as the year prior. He keeps making the playoffs and has all the job security in the world. I don't see him changing his tactics at all. He's not going to just go out of his comfort zone all of a sudden.

I completely agree with this. I think the biggest thing you can see with the Red Wings versus some other teams that have made major trades in the past 5 years is that Detroit's best trade pieces around that time were Hudler, Filppula, Kronwall, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk. They surrounded most of that core with guys like Cleary, Betuzzi, Miller, Eaves, etc. It made no sense to trade guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and especially Kronwall with Lidstrom being as old as he was.

I can't imagine Hudler had a ton of value coming back from the KHL, getting himself put on the 4th line or benched, being a UFA at the end of the contract, etc. Filppula probably had trade value, but at the time there was literally no one that looked nearly ready to take his spot on the team. Detroit was just overall in a tough spot for a number of years. I guess Helm / Abdelkader were also guys they could have tried to deal, although Helm being hurt for seemingly ever didn't help his cause either.

Basically, with the emergence of Nyquist / Tatar / Helm + Abby as top 6 guys / Jurco / Pulkinnen / etc. as guys who can contribute at the NHL level, you finally have a group of assets that make sense to put towards deals.

I agree he likely won't come out of his comfort zone, but Holland really should consider making some changes. It's not even just the fact that they were eliminated so early, but the team just has SUCH a logjam of NHL ready players / players in the NHL / players soon losing waiver eligibility / etc. It's time for a quantity for quality type deal, or something...

 

[SimplySolace]

Found this interesting from HSJ
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/04/30/mike-babcock-job-rumors/26629133/

Babcock, who turned 52 on Wednesday, is seeking at least $4 million, if not $5 million, per year. General manager Ken Holland has offered $3.25 million per year for four years, which Babcock rejected. Team owner Mike Ilitch is known for being willing to spend, but the Wings have a pay structure, and Babcock's demands would significantly alter it.

Don't think I've seen an exact $ amount mentioned before.

 

[YostisHome]

I truly hope this is the offseason Kenny puts his reputation on the line and makes some big moves.

I hope he doesn't... he has not shown the ability to sign free agents (other than ones that fall in his lap) or make trades for years now. All this organization can do is draft.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I hope he doesn't... he has not shown the ability to sign free agents (other than ones that fall in his lap) or make trades for years now. All this organization can do is draft.

Can you explain to me what this innate ability is, by any chance?

Free agency is a crapshoot, particularly when it comes to the players of high demand.

 

[Channelcat]

http://www.tsn.ca/thumbs-down-to-babcock-s-blast-up-to-conn-men-1.270918

I didn't catch the actual comments, but if he said "this teams not getting any younger" that seems like a thinly veiled cop out. I don't like it at all. Maybe it is time for a new direction for the Wings.

 

[Karlsson2Turris*]

Would you guys want Paul Maclean back?

 

[Heaton]

I didn't catch the actual comments, but if he said "this teams not getting any younger" that seems like a thinly veiled cop out. I don't like it at all. Maybe it is time for a new direction for the Wings.

I take it as a direct shot at Holland for not properly building the team over the last few years. This is just the last of many similar comments.

 

[chances14]

i find it interesting that all 3 coaches from the wings 08 cup team could potentially be looking for jobs this summer

 

[bababooeyII]

Doesn't Babcock own some of that blame for the team not getting any younger? Wasn't Cleary Babcock's boy? The tie goes to the veteran stuff? I thought that was both Holland and Babcock. I'm not a fan of Holland, too conservative and seems happy to keep the playoff streak going as opposed to being serious about a run at the Cup but Babcock's favoritism towards veterans didn't exactly help develop prospects any faster either

 

[Claypool]

I take it as a direct shot at Holland for not properly building the team over the last few years. This is just the last of many similar comments.

The only way to properly build a team in the NHL now is through the draft.

 

[SoupNazi]

Found this interesting from HSJ
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/04/30/mike-babcock-job-rumors/26629133/



Don't think I've seen an exact $ amount mentioned before.

Interesting. I wonder where she's getting her numbers.

 

[Vladdy84]

Interesting. I wonder where she's getting her numbers.

Cleary.

 

[Heaton]

The only way to properly build a team in the NHL now is through the draft.

Then the Wings are in trouble, because we have seemingly zero high end defensive prospects coming up. Marchenko and XO look good, but no where near top pairing players.

So if we need to build through the draft, and Holland isn't getting the talent we need... then what? Building through the draft is the best way, but it's not the only way. You can supplement your team with good trades as well.

 

[Heaton]

Doesn't Babcock own some of that blame for the team not getting any younger? Wasn't Cleary Babcock's boy? The tie goes to the veteran stuff? I thought that was both Holland and Babcock. I'm not a fan of Holland, too conservative and seems happy to keep the playoff streak going as opposed to being serious about a run at the Cup but Babcock's favoritism towards veterans didn't exactly help develop prospects any faster either

I agree to an extent, but that's one player and we have no idea if that was Babcock wanting to keep all of the veterans, or if he was just towing the company line based on what his GM was telling him. Babcock wanted at least a handful of players much earlier than he was given. He wanted Smith earlier, he wanted XO this year etc... Can't get younger if the GM is unwilling to make room for the players.