Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 17-18 Part VIII

[cgf]

Yeah, me too, actually, lol. I just always thought of AB as an OG poster whose in it for the long haul, not just some random who threw a dart and it showed up Avalanche. I didn’t really want to point fingers, but what happened to Robin, Joe, Nalens Oga? Doesn’t make any sense not to cheer when all of the speculation and discussion is over and we are actually WINNING hockey games.

I'd assume that life just caught up with them. Don't think Robin or those others are the type to just take their ball & go home.

 

[Ivan13]

Robin stopped posting a while ago. Which is a shame as he was very insightful.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Based on the moves Roy was pushing for before he & Sakic's fall out, I wouldn't say he didn't want to rebuild. I'd say he just wanted to be a lot more aggressive about addressing long-term problems on D. While Sakic wanted to take a much more patient & methodical approach to rebuilding the blueline-corps & stocking the cubbards.

I dunno, I have a hard time believing Patrick Roy would be on board for a rebuild of any sort. He's a winner through and through and I dont think he would ever have the patience to go through struggling years for the betterment of the future.

I mean hell we pretty much saw perfect evidence of that when he outright quit on the team after two mediocre seasons without playoffs.

I dont necessarily think he wanted to sell off all future assets and draft picks to try and compete right away, but I cant imagine he would have been on board for a trade where we sent away the best player in the deal and didn't get an experience NHLer in return like what we did with Duchene.


I imagine he was someone who would have wanted to make big free agency splashes and hockey trades. Radulov would almost certainly be on this team(Probably the one thing I wish Roy had gotten his way with), Barrie would certainly be gone, and in his place we probably would have a Muzzin/Ekholm/Larsson type of Dman instead.

 

[5280]

I'd assume that life just caught up with them. Don't think Robin or those others are the type to just take their ball & go home.

Yeah I hope not, really. We’ve got some good years coming up!

 

[Bubba Thudd]

woohoo

 

[Freudian]

Wanting Avs to focus on asset management shouldn't be a permanent frame of mind. Like with most things in life, it depends. You should absolutely do it through rebuilds, do it to get value for expiring assets (that you can spare) and so on. Hoard when it's time to hoard. Build when it's time to build. Spend when it's time to spend.

When Avs are within an arms length of being a true competitor they should spend. Use those prospects and picks. Windows come so rarely, you have to go for it. But you have to have assets to spend when the time comes.

Avs did a very poor job of accumulating assets through the lean years 2008-15. Sakic has done a good job the past 12 months.

 

[RockLobster]

I loathe the term “asset management” because I truly think it’s an ebb and flow thing.

My contention with it is that I don’t think it’s a long-term viable plan for success. There will be times when you have to sell draft picks/prospects to acquire a player or players that can help *now*.

It’s great for the people who advocated that mindset that the Avs are having some success now, but for a select few who think it’s all rainbows, it seems obvious they will cry foul when the Avs trade a draft pick or prospect for a roster player that helps immediately.

Basically, as I said, it’s an ebb and flow, neither side will ever be truly “right”.

 

[cgf]

I dunno, I have a hard time believing Patrick Roy would be on board for a rebuild of any sort. He's a winner through and through and I dont think he would ever have the patience to go through struggling years for the betterment of the future.

I mean hell we pretty much saw perfect evidence of that when he outright quit on the team after two mediocre seasons without playoffs.

I dont necessarily think he wanted to sell off all future assets and draft picks to try and compete right away, but I cant imagine he would have been on board for a trade where we sent away the best player in the deal and didn't get an experience NHLer in return like what we did with Duchene.


I imagine he was someone who would have wanted to make big free agency splashes and hockey trades. Radulov would almost certainly be on this team(Probably the one thing I wish Roy had gotten his way with), Barrie would certainly be gone, and in his place we probably would have a Muzzin/Ekholm/Larsson type of Dman instead.

He wanted to trade Duchene for a serious downgrade at Center (Zzibanejad) because he wanted Chabot...who was going to play another year of junior & need some AHL time. That is 100% a rebuilding/future move. The other core player trade he was pushing for would've had an even bigger impact on our chances at making any sort of noise in 2016-17...and no Barrie wasn't the other core player who almost got traded that summer. Both of those moves that Sakic didn't pull the trigger on, which lead to Roy walking away, where future-moves that would've hampered our ability to win that season.

I think Roy got a little too caught up in the 2014 magic; but once he realized that that season had been a mirage, he wanted aggressive moves to set us up to actually contend in the future.

Radulov would've helped us, but even with Radu we would've been re-tooling that year...and a big part of wanting Radu was to help unlock that next level for MacKinnon that we are getting this year.

 

[Pokecheque]

There's multiple reasons for me to hate Hunwick, I don't want to derail the thread though. If someone creates an "Past Avs Whipping Boys" thread I'm for it.

 

[RockLobster]

Roy just really believed that he could acquire the players in the trades he sought out that would help make the team better now, but would’ve also provided some future help too.

We’ll never know if he was right, but he had some pretty wild ideas, and actually had some wild deals agreed upon, pending Joe signing off—which didn’t happen.

The Avs would’ve been pretty different today.

 

[Foppberg]

Avs would be a very different team, for sure. But I'm glad we didn't, I love the way we're trending right now.

I do miss Roy, he has that lure where you just want to hear him talk and you never know what he's going to do. I hope he gets another shot because I have a feeling it'd be quite interesting to see him run and do what he wants to do, and also entertaining.

 

[cgf]

Roy just really believed that he could acquire the players in the trades he sought out that would help make the team better now, but would’ve also provided some future help too.

We’ll never know if he was right, but he had some pretty wild ideas, and actually had some wild deals agreed upon, pending Joe signing off—which didn’t happen.

The Avs would’ve been pretty different today.

Yeah I do sometimes still like to play out what we might look like now if Joe had approved the trades Roy had lined up. I think we would've taken a very clear step back in 2016-17, but it wouldn't have been that bad, and we could be having a huge year this go around.

 

[cgf]

Avs would be a very different team, for sure. But I'm glad we didn't, I love the way we're trending right now.

I do miss Roy, he has that lure where you just want to hear him talk and you never know what he's going to do. I hope he gets another shot because I have a feeling it'd be quite interesting to see him run and do what he wants to do, and also entertaining.

Oh I love the team we have now, and in hindsight the other core-player trade he wanted could've turned out badly...as the player he wanted back has struggled to this point in his career. But it would've been certainly been interesting...and I can't say I would've been too upset with adding Radu & Chabot to our core.

 

[Freudian]

I think maintain that Roy could be a good GM. I think his slightly psychopathic traits and extreme competitiveness would fit that role.

I'd like to see him in Montreal. Whatever it would be, it would never be boring.

 

[dahrougem2]

If it ever comes out that Roy had a deal for Draisaitl agreed upon and Joe didn't sign off, cgf is going to blow a gasket lol.

 

[cgf]

I think maintain that Roy could be a good GM. I think his slightly psychopathic traits and extreme competitiveness would fit that role.

Agreed, especially if he takes over a team that clearly needs to go into a rebuild but has already sold off pieces to give them the extra picks needed to re-stock the pipeline.

 

[henchman21]

I think the asset management term gets misused a lot amongst fans. The whole idea is to use assets wisely... sometimes that means spending assets to improve the team, sometimes that means to sell off. Too many use it as only a gathering idea, and that isn't what it is at all.

Roy would have had a vastly different looking team, but at this point, it is kind of pointless to go through that mental exercise. It is over and a different path was taken. Thus far, there are positive signs on this path.

 

[Foppberg]

If it ever comes out that Roy had a deal for Draisaitl agreed upon and Joe didn't sign off, cgf is going to blow a gasket lol.

...AND that Roy had a contract in place for Radulov and all he had to do was sign? Well.. Nice knowing you cgf.

 

[cgf]

If it ever comes out that Roy had a deal for Draisaitl agreed upon and Joe didn't sign off, cgf is going to blow a gasket lol.

lol well the guy we would've gotten back in the 2nd core-player trade, could have been swapped for Leon 1-for-1...at one point...

So close enough

Damn it Joe! Why didn't you want to watch MacK n Radu on one line, and Leon with Mikko on another!?!?!?!? WHY DO YOU HATE FUN!?!?!?!?!?

 

[dahrougem2]

The thing I don't get about asset management is that everything in and of itself is an asset. A draft pick is an asset. A prospect is an asset. A player is an asset.

Obviously, if you're getting more back than you're sending out, you're accumulating assets but there's also the quality vs quantity debate.

I've never understood the saying "we just traded an asset for a rental" or a guy with 1.5 years left or something. That player is also an asset.

 

[cgf]

...AND that Roy had a contract in place for Radulov and all he had to do was sign? Well.. Nice knowing you cgf.

...I mean, we already know this part to be true. But I've already forgiven Joe for his cowardice in that instance...partially, I'll forgive him fully when he gets me Leon...

 

[lonelybadger]

I wish I knew these Roy trades. I have heard of a couple of them but I feel like there are a lot more people know about

 

[The Abusement Park]

I mean PK was almost and Av wasn’t he? Wasn’t there a rumor that Duchene, Bigras, and some other stuff was going to MTL?

 

[cgf]

I mean PK was almost and Av wasn’t he? Wasn’t there a rumor that Duchene, Bigras, and some other stuff was going to MTL?

I dunno if PK was ever on the brink of being an av the way the Ottawa trade was on the brink of happening. All Joe had to do was give his ok and Chabot+Zibanejad would've been on their way to Colorado, with Radu signing not too long after. I think the pursuit of PK was probably more like their pursuit of Neal. Where they made an offer & did really want him, but it was never decided & just waiting for Joe's approval.

But if anyone knows the specifics on the PK pursuit, I am happy to be corrected...even if just via pm ;-)

 

[Foppberg]

Radulov, Draisaitl, Zib + Chabot, Subban, there certainly was a lot of big name rumours around us while Roy was here.