Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 17-18 Part VIII

Status
Not open for further replies.

Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
Sponsor
Aug 5, 2003
46,083
29,160
The Flatlands
www.armoredheadspace.com
The whole first season the man system worked great. No team really had an answer to break it until Yeo got 7 games in a row on it, and showed the whole NHL how to bust it up. It never recovered from there, though I'd argue the Avs gave up on it too soon. It needed some tweaks, but I don't think it needed abandoned.

I'm not saying Roy's system was better (though I think all the variations he used were, but that is a different debate). I said it was better for Varly. It helped him with his biggest weakness... puck tracking. It cleared lanes and pushed shots outside. If a NHL goalie can see a shot, they should be able to stop it at a very high rate. The results were there for that in 13-14.

I do think Varly has lost athleticism, and that is a part of his struggles now. That is what made him special, and it just isn't there anymore. He should be better than he is now from a talent perspective and part of that is on him. I do think a portion of his issue this year has to do with his poor puck tracking.

On a side note, I think Jose Theodore was the best goalie the Avs ever had in terms of pure athleticism (his mechanics weren't fine-tuned to say the least, plus he was pretty small as far as goalies go). He too faded quickly once injuries cut into that ability.

But I still don't think Roy's system worked "great." That team got annihilated on the shot clock every single night. They just happened to get great returns on the transition game (no one forced more turnovers in Avs history than Ryan O'Reilly) and were shooting the lights out percentage-wise. It wasn't just Yeo who figured it out, that wasn't going to last.

If there's one thing I wish Bednar would emphasize more it's the transition game. He has his teams give up WAY too much ice at the attacking zone blue line and the neutral zone instead of getting more aggressive and forcing turnovers. They have the personnel to absolutely kill the opposition, don't know why they don't take advantage. Again, I feel like part of this is Pratt having the forwards backcheck or just hang back entirely too much. If you've got a weapon like J.T. Compher, you f***ing use him. I also think Andrighetto would be great at this...it would certainly be a better use of his skills than making him try and play defense.

Also on a side note...is it just me or does Bednar & Co. seemingly call for changes at horrible times? I swear I don't recall a team that killed their own momentum so many times due to being called back for changes as much as this team does.
 

forsbergavs32

Global Moderator
Jan 21, 2011
27,511
24,825
Fresno,CA
On the coaching subject, does anyone think Sakic would let Bednar go if the team keeps being meh to bad? or will he likely see Bednar's contract out?
 

Murzu

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Dec 23, 2013
6,149
9,207
Finland
I'd want him to kick him out next summer but I can totally see him giving him his 3rd year.
 

Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
40,147
37,298
A 3rd year for Bednar is going to have a lot to do with what the players want. Sakic hired him. Sakic gave him the second year due to him feeling Bednar was thrown into a bad situation, but Sakic will likely open up after year two and start listening more on the opinions of his players.

From an ego standpoint, if the season continues the way it's gone so far Sakic can easily bring Bednar back and make it look like the right decision around the league. The Avs are better than anticipated, Bednar has improved some of his tactics while coaching the 2nd youngest team in hockey. Names such as Mackinnon, Barrie and Rantanen are on pace to crush their career highs. Their captain on pace for 60 points for just the 2nd time in his career when most in the hockey media thought he was on a major downturn. EJ getting early all star game consideration in the media.

Fortunately I don't see Sakic as being that kind of person who would make a decision just to make himself look smarter. Plus it's well known that he frequently communicates with the players on the team. If Bednar is brought back next year, we'll know that the leaders of the team had a major part in that decision. We still have 2/3'ds of the season remaining for us to even begin to speculate on what we think will happen though. This team went completely tits up at this exact point last year while being coached by the same guy. Could definitely happen again. Or maybe something positive happens. Who knows? I'll bet we keep a relatively similar pace to the first third.
 

Brett44

Registered User
Feb 11, 2017
1,342
355
What do you think by this propose

Barrie +Andrighetto to pittsburg
For 1 pick 2018 ,Sprong and Hagelin(cap dump)

Or

Barrie + Comeau to NYI
For 1 pick 2018(cal) + Bellows + Sorokin
 

Piestany88

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
2,510
474
What do you think by this propose

Barrie +Andrighetto to pittsburg
For 1 pick 2018 ,Sprong and Hagelin(cap dump)

Or

Barrie + Comeau to NYI
For 1 pick 2018(cal) + Bellows + Sorokin
I'd do the second one , I like Sorokin though. Actually I'd do that deal today
 

lonelybadger

Registered User
Feb 22, 2013
5,868
1,883
Toronto
No to the first, I don't think sprong and a late pick are enough for Barrie.

Islanders package is closer but I think Sakic would want more proven talent (a signed De Haan and bellows/sorokin type of deal.
 

Goulet17

Registered User
May 22, 2003
7,942
3,786
Barrie is signed for two and a half more years. I think people are seriously underestimating his value if they think a late first and a prospect gets a deal done at this time. We went through this with Duchene and I think people should be more aware at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LTC Pain

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,277
31,362
I also think Barrie has more value around the league than Duchene does

That might be true. Probably depends on the team. He has the benefit of being a defenseman in that regard. Everyone wants one, and no one wants to give them up.
 

JoemAvs

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
13,671
4,116
I also think Barrie has more value around the league than Duchene does

I somewhat doubt it. I agree that he should be the more valuable commodity that has an extra year on his contract but then I look around the league and wonder which team is really a Tyson Barrie short of being a contender and desperately needs him to take the next step.

And then I have trouble coming up with teams. Sure there are quite a few where he would be a good fit but Duchene potentially being able to fill that #1 C role is probably worth more than Barrie filling that offensive role on the backend that most teams already have covered. There are way more quality OFDs than potential top line centers..

Which team should give up a lot to get Barrie to take the next step? Toronto? I think they need more of an EJ type of D. Edmonton? Might be the best fit but they probably won't make the playoffs Barrie or no Barrie.
Islanders? They already have Leddy and probably haven't given up on Pulock just yet. Tampa Bay? Len Barries son and with Sergachev coming in, the need for Barrie probably is no longer there.

Can someone help me out? Especially given the fact that between Dahlin, Boqvist, Smith,Hughes, Merkley, Addison, Bouchard, Dobson there are a crapton of quality offensive Ds available in this draft that will last way into the later stages of the first round.
Which team is desperate enough for Tyson Barrie to give up a Duchene like return?

I am really no longer buying into that whole (quality RHDs that can generate offense are such a rare commodity that they have a ton of value) angle.
I am not sure Barrie holds the kind of value I hope he does and the optimal time to trade him probably has already passed.

If Sakic is not comfortable with dishing out a 7x7M deal to 28 year old Tyson Barrie, he should probably get on the phones right now and try to move him asap.


It is probably known that I am one of the biggest Barrie fans around here but honestly I am not sure I want to give him that contract. If you put a gun to my head, I would probably even prefer to trade him for good value now instead of giving him that big deal that he will rightfully command.

Tough situation tbh and a (good) proactive GM should probably really see what is out there for him right now.
 

Brett44

Registered User
Feb 11, 2017
1,342
355
If it's true trade him now . I don't want De haan in a trade we should sign as UFA even an overpayment.5×5M
 

BKarchitect

Registered User
Oct 12, 2017
7,150
12,135
Kansas City, MO
I also think Barrie has more value around the league than Duchene does

Would have said this...prior to seeing what we actually got for Duchene.

Girard, 2017 1st round prospect, and 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks? Heck, I’m on team “don’t trade all our established players” but if somebody offered that same bag of loot for Barrie, I’d pull the trigger in a heartbeat.
 

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,277
31,362
I don't know Vatanen went for Henrique

Eh, I don't know. I've always though Vatanen was kinda overrated. He's an undersized offensive defenseman, but he only put up 24 points last year, and is only pace for 13 this year. His value isn't what Barrie's should be.
 

CobraAcesS

De Opresso Liber
Sponsor
Jul 20, 2011
25,895
9,874
Michigan
I somewhat doubt it. I agree that he should be the more valuable commodity that has an extra year on his contract but then I look around the league and wonder which team is really a Tyson Barrie short of being a contender and desperately needs him to take the next step.

And then I have trouble coming up with teams. Sure there are quite a few where he would be a good fit but Duchene potentially being able to fill that #1 C role is probably worth more than Barrie filling that offensive role on the backend that most teams already have covered. There are way more quality OFDs than potential top line centers..

Which team should give up a lot to get Barrie to take the next step? Toronto? I think they need more of an EJ type of D. Edmonton? Might be the best fit but they probably won't make the playoffs Barrie or no Barrie.
Islanders? They already have Leddy and probably haven't given up on Pulock just yet. Tampa Bay? Len Barries son and with Sergachev coming in, the need for Barrie probably is no longer there.

Can someone help me out? Especially given the fact that between Dahlin, Boqvist, Smith,Hughes, Merkley, Addison, Bouchard, Dobson there are a crapton of quality offensive Ds available in this draft that will last way into the later stages of the first round.
Which team is desperate enough for Tyson Barrie to give up a Duchene like return?

I am really no longer buying into that whole (quality RHDs that can generate offense are such a rare commodity that they have a ton of value) angle.
I am not sure Barrie holds the kind of value I hope he does and the optimal time to trade him probably has already passed.

If Sakic is not comfortable with dishing out a 7x7M deal to 28 year old Tyson Barrie, he should probably get on the phones right now and try to move him asap.


It is probably known that I am one of the biggest Barrie fans around here but honestly I am not sure I want to give him that contract. If you put a gun to my head, I would probably even prefer to trade him for good value now instead of giving him that big deal that he will rightfully command.

Tough situation tbh and a (good) proactive GM should probably really see what is out there for him right now.

I bet STL wouldn't mind having Kirks clone back. Not a huge need, but I could see them being interested.

Edmonton makes sense, and it wouldn't just be for this season so I don't see how them making the playoffs or not this year really matters.

Toronto would work as you said.

I haven't looked at the Caps salary structure, but their defense seems to be suffering every year. I could see them really wanting Barrie.

Detroit, due to their dellusions of never having to rebuild

I could see SJ being interest in upgrading their second pair as they try to hold onto contention.

Vancouver is also another team who can't seem to reconcile the idea of going full rebuild. I'd imagine they would pay for immediate help also.

Both Florida and Montreal's defensive groups have been depleted recently as well. Montreal could really use that offensive boost too.

I think Barrie would be easy to trade, but I don't think they're that serious about it right now, and will wait until they get more of an idea about Makar and Timmins. The earliest Barrie moves is at the draft for the right offer IMO.

Barrie and MacK are besties as well. So unless a team blows the doors off with an offer they'll keep him and see how this season shakes out.
 

Piestany88

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
2,510
474
Eh, I don't know. I've always though Vatanen was kinda overrated. He's an undersized offensive defenseman, but he only put up 24 points last year, and is only pace for 13 this year. His value isn't what Barrie's should be.
True
 

PAZ

.
Jul 14, 2011
17,396
9,764
BC
I've been a huge Barrie supporter since day 1, I had G2P make this avatar back in 2011 IIRC, but he won't return the package we got for Duchene because Sakic bent over Dorion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Foppberg

Pokecheque

I’ve been told it’s spelled “Pokecheck”
Sponsor
Aug 5, 2003
46,083
29,160
The Flatlands
www.armoredheadspace.com
Wouldn't mind Beleskey if the Bruins are willing to give up a decent pick with him. Beleskey-Soda-Comeau would be a pretty nice 3rd line.

It would be if this were the Beleskey that played for the Anaheim Ducks. The injury-riddled B's have deemed him less-than-NHL-caliber at this point. This team has wasted enough time with fringe grinders.

I'd rather the Avs not be the newest Bad Contract Graveyard. I get they might need help getting to the salary floor, but I think a team could get at least a semi-useful player if they want to do that.
 
Nov 29, 2003
52,254
36,557
Screw You Blaster
Visit site
It would be if this were the Beleskey that played for the Anaheim Ducks. The injury-riddled B's have deemed him less-than-NHL-caliber at this point. This team has wasted enough time with fringe grinders.

I'd rather the Avs not be the newest Bad Contract Graveyard. I get they might need help getting to the salary floor, but I think a team could get at least a semi-useful player if they want to do that.

I'm more curious to see if Beleskey really has dropped off that far, or if he just needs a change of scenery. I figure the Avs had no issue burying Colborne, so money isn't an issue if he really doesn't fit.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad