CBC Hot Stove: Avalanche the favorites for Taylor Hall, trade may even happen before Christmas

[Pierce Hawthorne]

There are numerous other raises to be handed out as well, namely, starting with Francouz and Grubauer. Zadorov and Burakovsky will likely also be looking at raises. Byram and Timmins as well in a couple of years.

Key term: Major raises.

Any Zadorov raise will be minimal, less than 1M for sure. Burakovsky still has a lot left to prove before we start talking about a serious raise for him. If he hits 25 Goald and 50 points this year than sure, he might jump from 3.25 up to ~5M. But that's still not big raises.

Francouz is a backup goalie. They dont make much. He might get a 500k raise. And if he wants more he's probably wanting a chance to be a starter and that wont happen in Colorado. Either way we're not paying our backup much more than what Frankie is making right now.

Grubauer could see a decent raise. He's at 3.33M right now, So he might jump up to say 5.5-6M on his next deal.

But, we also have a tonne more money coming off the books when Grubauer and Landeskog will need a new deal anyway. That same summer that Grubauer is a UFA, Ian Coles 4.25M comes off the books, as does Matt Calverts 2.85M. That'll be 7.1M alone in freed up space to give Grubauer.



Way, way too early to even be thinking about Byram or Timmins extensions. Those deals should have no impact whatsoever on a Taylor Hall extension. They might not even be in the NHL for the entire duration of Halls extension(Which would be a much, much bigger problem for the organization anyways).

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Play it cool Ray. Don’t seem so eager. Be patient and you might get something good out of this. According to Friedman it’s the sense of urgency other GM’s are banking on.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Yes. With ease as well.


The only 2 guys with major raises coming up in the next 4 years until Mackinnon gets his next deal, are Makar and Landeskog.

Even Landeskog probably only jumps up to ~8M. His raise is likely taken care of simply by the rising salary cap that year anyway.

Makar will be a big raise. No question about that. I suspect something in the neighborhood of 8-9M, so a 7-8M raise off his current cap hit.

But in the next 2 years we also have Colin Wilson(2.6M), Matt Nieto(1.9M), Tyson Barrie(2.75M), Brooks Orpik(1.5M), and Mark Barberio(1.4M) all coming off the books as well. Especially with Orpik and Barrie money that will be 4.25M in straight cash to spend on the roster.

Plus, there's the looming expansion draft to keep an eye on also. The Avs are a far, far deeper team now than they were last time around and no matter how we cut it, we are going to lose an impact player in that draft. But that also means losing some more salary in the expansion draft as well. It's early, but the leading candidates to lose in the expansion draft are looking like Compher or Zadorov, meaning somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.5-4.5M in cap space to be freed up at that point also. Burakovsky could very well play himself into that conversation as well and would be making that same ~4M type of money.



Long story short the Avs could definitely afford Hall on an extension for ~9-10M. If he wants Panarin money I wouldn't give it to him anyway. But on a 5-6 year deal for 9-10M the Avs could definitely make it work.

Burakovski is going to get a raise, too.

 

[Patagonia]

There are numerous other raises to be handed out as well, namely, starting with Francouz and Grubauer. Zadorov and Burakovsky will likely also be looking at raises. Byram and Timmins as well in a couple of years.

AVs this season offered a number of "show me 1 year deals." Here are the current salaries on the assumption none of the players receive an increase.

• Burakovsky; ($3.3)
• Jost; ($1M)
• Nichushkin; ($1M)
• Kamenev; ($1M)
• Zadorov; ($3.2M)
• Francouz. ($1M)

Total is about $10.5M. Projected $23M in Cap Space and Hall is asking for at least $9M.

• RFAs Resigned - $10.5;
• Hall Salary - $9M.

• Space Available $3.5M

AVs cannot realistically offer no increase or Hall earning less than Market Value. It will be difficult to navigate within the Cap, but any space going forward will be quickly erased.

 

[Ararana]

Really makes it sound like there's not much of a market right now.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

Really makes it sound like there's not much of a market right now.

Or maybe an inquiring GM told Friedman that to dull offers (wishful thinking)

 

[shadow1]

AVs this season offered a number of "show me 1 year deals." Here are the current salaries on the assumption none of the players receive an increase.

• Burakovsky; ($3.3)
• Jost; ($1M)
• Nichushkin; ($1M)
• Kamenev; ($1M)
• Zadorov; ($3.2M)
• Francouz. ($1M)

Total is about $10.5M. Projected $23M in Cap Space and Hall is asking for at least $9M.

• RFAs Resigned - $10.5;
• Hall Salary - $9M.

• Space Available $3.5M

AVs cannot realistically offer no increase or Hall earning less than Market Value. It will be difficult to navigate within the Cap, but any space going forward will be quickly erased.

If Colorado manages to acquire and re-sign Hall, that's when you'll see salary cut in other ways.

Ian Cole, who's struggled mightily this year, could get shown the door (probably packaged with a pick). JT Compher, who is a solid young player, is definitely expendable if it means keeping Taylor Hall. Maybe Nikita Zadorov, who's always in trade rumors and has a hot and cold relationship with the coach, finally gets dealt and is replaced by ELC defensemen like Conor Timmins and Bowen Byram.

Just ideas. This Avs fan isn't married to the idea of getting Taylor Hall, but at the same time, I don't care about keeping the entire band together forever...because regardless of whether or not they get Hall, they won't be able to do it.

 

[Forge]

Really makes it sound like there's not much of a market right now.

I definitely think it's kind of soft. The athletic articles made it kind of seem that way too.

That's why I've largely felt this would be a quantity type trade and have hedged on the side of the Helleson / Kaut / 1st rounder return.

 

[Foppberg]

Really makes it sound like there's not much of a market right now.

Good. Let him go anywhere else.

please

 

[Patagonia]

If Colorado manages to acquire and re-sign Hall, that's when you'll see salary cut in other ways.

Ian Cole, who's struggled mightily this year, could get shown the door (probably packaged with a pick). JT Compher, who is a solid young player, is definitely expendable if it means keeping Taylor Hall. Maybe Nikita Zadorov, who's always in trade rumors and has a hot and cold relationship with the coach, finally gets dealt and is replaced by ELC defensemen like Conor Timmins and Bowen Byram.

Just ideas. This Avs fan isn't married to the idea of getting Taylor Hall, but at the same time, I don't care about keeping the entire band together forever...because regardless of whether or not they get Hall, they won't be able to do it.

Hall is not only going to cost players packaged in the deal + Money, but revamping players to fit under the cap. Dump Cole, Compher and possibly Zadorov seems to a costly price to pay.

Still no is trading for Hall.

 

[Ncit3]

It's even laughable that Byram and Girard have been brought up in relation to a 28 year old oft injured UFA winger.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Hall is not only going to cost players packaged in the deal + Money, but revamping players to fit under the cap. Dump Cole, Compher and possibly Zadorov seems to a costly price to pay.

Still no is trading for Hall.

You’re not dumping then, you’re exchanging them for picks, cap space AND freeing up spots for guys like Newhook and Kaut and/or prospects acquired in the trades.

One way or another, the Avs aren’t keeping ALL their current players while also being able to graduate prospects as they’re ready.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If Colorado manages to acquire and re-sign Hall, that's when you'll see salary cut in other ways.

Ian Cole, who's struggled mightily this year, could get shown the door (probably packaged with a pick). JT Compher, who is a solid young player, is definitely expendable if it means keeping Taylor Hall. Maybe Nikita Zadorov, who's always in trade rumors and has a hot and cold relationship with the coach, finally gets dealt and is replaced by ELC defensemen like Conor Timmins and Bowen Byram.

Just ideas. This Avs fan isn't married to the idea of getting Taylor Hall, but at the same time, I don't care about keeping the entire band together forever...because regardless of whether or not they get Hall, they won't be able to do it.

You dont even need to show Cole the door. He only has 1 year left after this year anyway. Let him play out his final year and then dont resign him. Boom, 4.25M freed up for the summer of 2021 right on the spot.


Plus at that point you're looking at, at least Byram being in the NHL by then so you have:


Byram - Makar
Girard - EJ

And then some combination of: Timmins/Graves/Zadorov/Zhuravlyov/Rosen filling out the rest of the lineup anyway. You may not even need Zadorov at that point and he may be the expansion draft victim.

Same thing at forward. By the summer of 2021, Newhook, Bowers, Kaut, Kovalenko, Ranta... At least 2 and ideally 3 of these guys are in the roster, on ELC money. They're the guys replacing Calvert, Bellemare, potentially Compher, etc.

Its easy to get Hall signed and afford to keep our good players. What it will do, is put more pressure on our scouting staff and the picks they've made the last 2-3 years to actually develop into NHL depth pieces at least that can replace the guys we have now for a lot less.

And honestly, if they cant do that, we have far bigger problems to worry about anyways. Our cup window will not extend beyond the next 2-3 years regardless of the Hall situation, if we cant start filling out our bottom 6 forward sots and 5/6 Dmen spots with cheap ELC players.

 

[Steerpike]

Key term: Major raises.

Any Zadorov raise will be minimal, less than 1M for sure. Burakovsky still has a lot left to prove before we start talking about a serious raise for him. If he hits 25 Goald and 50 points this year than sure, he might jump from 3.25 up to ~5M. But that's still not big raises.

Francouz is a backup goalie. They dont make much. He might get a 500k raise. And if he wants more he's probably wanting a chance to be a starter and that wont happen in Colorado. Either way we're not paying our backup much more than what Frankie is making right now.

Grubauer could see a decent raise. He's at 3.33M right now, So he might jump up to say 5.5-6M on his next deal.

But, we also have a tonne more money coming off the books when Grubauer and Landeskog will need a new deal anyway. That same summer that Grubauer is a UFA, Ian Coles 4.25M comes off the books, as does Matt Calverts 2.85M. That'll be 7.1M alone in freed up space to give Grubauer.



Way, way too early to even be thinking about Byram or Timmins extensions. Those deals should have no impact whatsoever on a Taylor Hall extension. They might not even be in the NHL for the entire duration of Halls extension(Which would be a much, much bigger problem for the organization anyways).

You can't just look at salaries coming off the books and give them to other people. Those are solid players you're losing. To still be a deep team you need to be able to produce more of them. Which will cost.... approximately as much as is coming off the books.

Unless you replace them with ELC contracts... which you won't be able to do if you throw all of your futures at NJ for Hall.

 

[Aceboogie]

If my team was poised to make some noise like the Avs are, Id make a play for him, even if he was only a rental. There is no clear top dog(s) in the NHL and the Cup is pretty up for grabs. Now would be one of the best times to go all in.

I wish the Oilers would go in for Hall, even though they have 3/4 may bigger holes than the Avs do.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

How about Hall to the Islanders or something? They have cap space and prospects. I haven't really seen them mentioned at all.

 

[JoemAvs]

If my team was poised to make some noise like the Avs are, Id make a play for him, even if he was only a rental. There is no clear top dog(s) in the NHL and the Cup is pretty up for grabs. Now would be one of the best times to go all in.

I wish the Oilers would go in for Hall, even though they have 3/4 may bigger holes than the Avs do.

The Avs certainly are making a play for him. They certainly should not even think about going all-in.
If they can get Hall at a decent price (not involving any roster players or our top3 prospects) for a pure rental, I am pretty sure that Sakic will pull the trigger.
If Shero wants more for Hall, he probably should and hopefully will look elsewhere...

 

[Forge]

How about Hall to the Islanders or something? They have cap space and prospects. I haven't really seen them mentioned at all.

They would be a team that makes sense, it's just been really quiet on that front. I don't love a lot of what they would be willing to offer (wasn't a Wilde fan even during his draft year, Wahlstrom seems....eclectic, I'll say), but I'd be fairly interested in someone like Sorokin.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

but I'd be fairly interested in someone like Sorokin.

My experiences asking for this player in a trade proposal have been... unpleasant

 

[BigFuzzyDice]

Really makes it sound like there's not much of a market right now.

The market is fine, It is just reflecting the true value of a 28 year old bandaid who trips over his lip when things aren't working out.
Rental cost is a pick and a midrange prospect at best, maybe a salary dump on a roster player.
There is no pot of gold at the trading end of that rainbow.

all that being said, I don't care where he goes as long as it isn't holland bringing back the lotto master.

 

[Blackjack]

Yeah, never heard a peep about the Islanders. Would be funny for Shero to trade with Lou though.

 

[shadow1]

Hall is not only going to cost players packaged in the deal + Money, but revamping players to fit under the cap. Dump Cole, Compher and possibly Zadorov seems to a costly price to pay.

Still no is trading for Hall.

I disagree. Solid depth guys, but replaceable. This off-season alone the Avalanche dealt away Tyson Barrie, Carl Soderberg, and Alexander Kerfoot.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

You can't just look at salaries coming off the books and give them to other people. Those are solid players you're losing. To still be a deep team you need to be able to produce more of them. Which will cost.... approximately as much as is coming off the books.

Unless you replace them with ELC contracts... which you won't be able to do if you throw all of your futures at NJ for Hall.

Ian Cole is not a solid player. Dude is already our worst Dman that plays every night.

Calvert is a solid player yes... But if we cant replace him internally with someone within the system, like I said previously the Avs are in much deeper trouble moving forward. And Francouz is a backup goalie and not even the best backups in the league are making more than a couple million. We're not throwing all of our futures away in a Hall deal either.

Even if we go on the high end of return and say the deal is a 1st + Newhook + as the base line.


You still have Kaut, Bowers, Ranta, Kovalenko, and Beaucage in the system. If we cant get even just 1 NHL forward in that group to replace Calvert.... Plain and simple we're rebuilding again within 2-3 years.

The Avs are in a rare, rare position right now of having a Top 10 Prospect pool even with Makar graduating, and being one of the leagues very best teams and legit cup contender.


The prospect pool is deep enough that we should be able to move 2-3 guys from it and still have youth to replace our veterans in the coming years and if we dont we're not going to contend beyond the Mack contract regardless of what we do with Hall.

 

[AvalancheRy]

Avs as it stands are in a good spot without Hall. The worry is if you get Hall, you may actually end up creating a hole on the 3rd line, where a player will have to play who might be better suited for top-six duty.

I guess they bump down Donskoi and go something like this as top 9:

Landy - Mack - Rants

Hall - Kadri - Burka

Donskoi - Compher - w/e

It's a good problem to have but I'd be worried about affecting chemistry if Hall is acquired.

 

[Avaholic29]

Avs as it stands are in a good spot without Hall. The worry is if you get Hall, you may actually end up creating a hole on the 3rd line, where a player will have to play who might be better suited for top-six duty.

I guess they bump down Donskoi and go something like this as top 9:

Landy - Mack - Rants

Hall - Kadri - Burka

Donskoi - Compher - w/e

It's a good problem to have but I'd be worried about affecting chemistry if Hall is acquired.

Calvert/nichushkin would be fine on that line.