CBC Hot Stove: Avalanche the favorites for Taylor Hall, trade may even happen before Christmas

[Forge]

The return is what the return is. I have enough confidence in Shero's trade acumen at the very least that he will get what he can on the market for Hall. If Devils fans are uninspired by the return, its likely that there simply wasn't a bigger market or better offer on the table. While all of Shero's trades haven't worked, they have all made sense and outside of maybe the Mueller trade (I suppose maybe the Grabner trade as well), he's gotten solid value.

If we trade with the Avs and the best defensive prospect we get back is Helleson, then it's likely that no other teams presented an offer that forced the Avs to include Timmins, or the Avs still balked at this and we liked Helleson more than what other teams were offering.

 

[Ararana]

I really feel like Rosen should be involved. Not as a key piece, but as an additional. The guy deserves an extended look and could become a solid d-man (something NJD will need next year). The Avs just don't have the space for him. Below is my latest thought. NJD get a roster player, a top 5 prospect who is about to make the NHL, Hellesson who is 3 years off at least, and a 1st this year. Putting this in the Avs frame of mind when they traded Duchene, I would've been pleased with that quantity of quality.

For a re-signed Hall:
Rosen
Kaut
Hellesson
1st

That's a UFA return. If Hall extends, which right it sounds like he wont, we're going to have to give up a Timmins or Zadorov.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

That's a UFA return. If Hall extends, which right it sounds like he wont, we're going to have to give up a Timmins or Zadorov.

That first would have to be conditional then based on resigning or based on the Avs playoff performance.

 

[Ararana]

That first would have to be conditional then based on resigning or based on the Avs playoff performance.

His suggested package pretty much replaces the second conditional pick with a prospect, four pieces total. I think they have similar value.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

His suggested package pretty much replaces the second conditional pick with a prospect, four pieces total. I think they have similar value.

I think thats too much based on where we stand. If we were Columbus and needed to make a run, sure.

I think we're going to take the Bruins/Caps model.. small additions at the deadline that fits a need. Instead of the Nashville (remember the year they got Foppa?)/Winnipeg model.

 

[hughdreamz]

That's a UFA return. If Hall extends, which right it sounds like he wont, we're going to have to give up a Timmins or Zadorov.

It's insane to me that that is a UFA return, but oh well.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Because he may have limited suitors who will explore other options.

If the Avs decide they don’t want to wait for Shero to make his mind, they can go after Kreider or Pageau or whoever else may be available.

Limited suitors? Taylor doesn’t look as sharp as two years ago but he’s still close to a PPG, playing on a dumpster fire of a team.

Let’s not act as if Shero will be lucky to get 2 or 3 offers come deadline day. His 6M$ cap hit will be prorated and he’s still a 1st liner.

I know it doesn’t fit your narrative but if Taylor Hall is still available on deadline day, the Ray will be the busiest GM on that day.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Avs are not going to overpay for a rental just because they have an embarrassment of riches. We will only overpay if its a huge need. We can always use those assets to trade for other pieces. Hall isn’t the only player the Avs can target.

I’d like to know what other player is legitimately out there that can be had at the deadline, that will put your team over the top.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Limited suitors? Taylor doesn’t look as sharp as two years ago but he’s still close to a PPG, playing on a dumpster fire of a team.

Let’s not act as if Shero will be lucky to get 2 or 3 offers come deadline day. His 6M$ cap hit will be prorated and he’s still a 1st liner.

I know it doesn’t fit your narrative but if Taylor Hall is still available on deadline day, the Ray will be the busiest GM on that day.

Well he will have to be the busiest GM because if he doesn't send out Hall, he gets nothing after the trade deadline. Ray is shopping Hall as much as other teams are pursuing him. If its a "buyer's" market where other GMs have limited options, he'll get more. If its a "seller's" market, I would much rather just go after Kreider/Pageau if it cost less than half as much.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Limited suitors? Taylor doesn’t look as sharp as two years ago but he’s still close to a PPG, playing on a dumpster fire of a team.

Let’s not act as if Shero will be lucky to get 2 or 3 offers come deadline day. His 6M$ cap hit will be prorated and he’s still a 1st liner.

I know it doesn’t fit your narrative but if Taylor Hall is still available on deadline day, the Ray will be the busiest GM on that day.

100% he will.

What I’m suggesting is not that there won’t be suitors, but that the suitors may not be ideal.

Some teams are better positioned to offer exactly what the devils want, others may not be. If the devils are zeroed I’m on getting ie. the best possible defensive prospect, he might have interest in 3 or 4.

If from those 4 teams, they get antsy and don’t want to be left with nothing, decide to go for another option, it could hamper the return.

Shero is going to get tons of offers. That’s not what I meant. The question is how many of those offers satisfy what they really want?

I’m sure Sakic got TONS of offers for Duchene. But until he got the right piece, he sat on his hands.

There’s no narrative. Everything is dependent on Shero’s ask, how specific it is, and on what pieces he places the most value.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I’d like to know what other player is legitimately out there that can be had at the deadline, that will put your team over the top.

I don't think there is one, including Hall. But for the Avs need, Pageau is a better fit. I think we'll likely stand pat actually. No point in "rocking the boat".

 

[EdAVSfan]

I’d like to know what other player is legitimately out there that can be had at the deadline, that will put your team over the top.

I’d like to know why there’s a concept that Hall is the only player that can put us over the top.

There might not be any combination of players that puts Colorado over the top. You build the best team possible and cross your fingers.

The problem is that “best team” can be built in many different ways.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Well he will have to be the busiest GM because if he doesn't send out Hall, he gets nothing after the trade deadline. Ray is shopping Hall as much as other teams are pursuing him. If its a "buyer's" market where other GMs have limited options, he'll get more. If its a "seller's" market, I would much rather just go after Kreider/Pageau if it cost less than half as much.

That’s reasonable.

I guess you and I just don’t have the same point of view. If my top #4 was on average 24 years old, I wouldn’t care about losing a solid prospect for a proven forward that is more then likely to resign with my team knowing we’re on the rise, have the cap space to give me a fair deal and would make my team that much better, over a kid that will start to hit his stride in what 2, 3 maybe 4 years from now?

 

[GirardSpinorama]

That’s reasonable.

I guess you and I just don’t have the same point of view. If my top #4 was on average 24 years old, I wouldn’t care about losing a solid prospect for a proven forward that is more then likely to resign with my team knowing we’re on the rise, have the cap space to give me a fair deal and would make my team that much better, over a kid that will start to hit his stride in what 2, 3 maybe 4 years from now?

I think if this was pre cap era Avs, we’d do it for sure. But now a day, I’m an asset/prospect hoarder and make minor adjustments for non core players.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I don't think there is one, including Hall. But for the Avs need, Pageau is a better fit. I think we'll likely stand pat actually. No point in "rocking the boat".

That’s where I disagree. I think Hall is exactly the type of player the Avs or any other team who aspires to make some noise in the playoffs should be targeting.

You play the same team in a 7 game series, you’re not facing a random team where you can fully take advantage of your top unit all the time. Having someone like Hall on your 2nd line would catch the opposition off guard, meaning that they won’t be able to send their checking line against the MacKinnon line as much as they would like, because they’d have Hall and whoever else to worry about as well.

As much as they’ve been good for you so far, I’m certain other teams would rather have to face Burakovsky/Donskoi instead of Hall.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Can they really afford him long term with Landeskog being UFA after next season and Makar having to sign a new (most likely huge) contract? Gotta think Makar is looking at Ekblad money if he wins the Calder this year and continues it into next season.

 

[JoemAvs]

Can they really afford him long term with Landeskog being UFA after next season and Makar having to sign a new (most likely huge) contract? Gotta think Makar is looking at Ekblad money if he wins the Calder this year and continues it into next season.

No they can't and from the looks of it Hall also has no interest of talking contract with anyone as part of a trade anyways.

This is a pure rental we are talking about.

 

[Mighty Makar]

Can they really afford him long term with Landeskog being UFA after next season and Makar having to sign a new (most likely huge) contract? Gotta think Makar is looking at Ekblad money if he wins the Calder this year and continues it into next season.

Ekblad money? Makar’s getting more than $7.5M, easily.

 

[Forge]

I know it doesn’t fit your narrative but if Taylor Hall is still available on deadline day, the Ray will be the busiest GM on that day.

Ray should be one of the busiest guys on that day regardless of what happens with Hall. He should be listening to offers on Vats, Wood, and he really needs to put Palms and Coleman on the market as well.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

That’s where I disagree. I think Hall is exactly the type of player the Avs or any other team who aspires to make some noise in the playoffs should be targeting.

You play the same team in a 7 game series, you’re not facing a random team where you can fully take advantage of your top unit all the time. Having someone like Hall on your 2nd line would catch the opposition off guard, meaning that they won’t be able to send their checking line against the MacKinnon line as much as they would like, because they’d have Hall and whoever else to worry about as well.

As much as they’ve been good for you so far, I’m certain other teams would rather have to face Burakovsky/Donskoi instead of Hall.

Oh, he’d help for sure if the Avs were behind. But if we need to protect a lead, which we do a lot, i’d love to shut it down with Pagaeu.

I’m just fairly confident in the Avs offensive firepower/star power, more so than our ability to just not make mistakes.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I think if this was pre cap era Avs, we’d do it for sure. But now a day, I’m an asset/prospect hoarder and make minor adjustments for non core players.

The goal is to win the cup, not collect assets on cost controlled contracts.

You need a mix of talent and youth and the Avs have just that. If my team can add Taylor Hall without giving a roster player, I’m all in... especially if it’s a prospect that might make an impact years from now.

 

[JoemAvs]

The goal is to win the cup, not collect assets on cost controlled contracts.

You need a mix of talent and youth and the Avs have just that. If my team can add Taylor Hall without giving a roster player, I’m all in... especially if it’s a prospect that might make an impact years from now.

Yeah. And not overpaying for a rental will give you a better chance in the following years. Which is kind of important given how young the Avs are..

You can't force a cup. No team will ever have more than 20 % chance at winning a cup pre-playoffs. Taylor Hall might increase your chance by a couple of percent points but that is only worth so much...

But yeah I understand why a Devils fan would feel that way given how much you guys would benefit from a GM doing something dumb right now. Sucks for you guys but it is what it is.

 

[MichaelJ]

Ray should be one of the busiest guys on that day regardless of what happens with Hall. He should be listening to offers on Vats, Wood, and he really needs to put Palms and Coleman on the market as well.

Add Greene, Zajac, and Simmonds to the list. Keep Coleman.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Yeah. And not overpaying for a rental will give you a better chance in the following years. Which is kind of important given how young the Avs are..

You can't force a cup. No team will ever have more than 20 % chance at winning a cup pre-playoffs. Taylor Hall might increase your chance by a couple of percent points but that is only worth so much...

But yeah I understand why a Devils fan would feel that way given how much you guys would benefit from a GM doing something dumb right now. Sucks for you guys but it is what it is.

It doesn’t suck for us at all since we know very well that we’re not making the playoffs. It’ll suck for you if your top line is being somewhat neutralized and you’re relying on Donskoi to carry the load but hey, at least you have solid prospects in your pipeline.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

The goal is to win the cup, not collect assets on cost controlled contracts.

You need a mix of talent and youth and the Avs have just that. If my team can add Taylor Hall without giving a roster player, I’m all in... especially if it’s a prospect that might make an impact years from now.

Those cost controlled assets can be used in many other ways. Sakic would never go “all in”, thats for desperate GMs on their way out the door.