Post-Game Talk: Avalanche 2, Penguins 1 - The Penguins are Broken

[Angrrus]

They have 2 very good lines but the bottom six is bad. Our defense is extremely overrated around here as well.
I think the record is actually a fair representation of this team on paper.
The bottom six was destroyed this summer. We also paid way too much to keep Dumo. The fourth line is actually embarrassing at this point.

Not only that. Sheary is producing way below his cap hit. Letang should have been shot into the sun with his cap hit of 7+mln. And Hagelin with his 4 mln hit should be tied to him in the process. Crosby is just coasting through the season. Murray hasn't been good at all.

Combine all that, and you'll get about 25-30 mln of cap space just not paying off at the moment.

 

[Angrrus]

At best right now they are the eighth best team in the East, and that's being generous. TB, TOR, CBJ, NYR, NYI, WASH, NJ are all better and the Pens are in the next tier. BOS may be better too

The worst part is not only are we losing but Sid, Geno , Phil are playing 20+ minutes a night. Geno played 24 the previous game. Ideally, they should be playing 17-19 minutes. They are being worn out early in the year for no reason. It's not helping and no one else can step up

Or, they could play better and get needed results in just 17-19 min of ice time, then there'll be no need to overuse them.

 

[Angrrus]

Schultz making a miracle recovery would go a long ways toward helping us.

You mean, the 5,5 mln/year, 10p in 23g Justin Schultz?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You mean, the 5,5 mln/year, 10p in 23g Justin Schultz?

Schultz was 7th in league scoring among defenseman last year, and according to my math, this year he's still our 2nd highest scoring defenseman per game, and we're not doing anything else with that 5.5 mil.

So yes, obviously, that guy.

People seem to have mission creeped back to talking about wingers, but Schultz and, frankly, Trevor Daley would help way more than anybody who plays wing.

Yeah, I don't get the wing talk either. It's our lowest priority position.

Yeah Schultz would help. We have a lot of holes though. They might not all be huge issues but it’s like death by 1000 cuts. Things depend on other things.

no offense from the bottom six = top 6 playing more minutes, wears them out especially with the amount of hockey we’ve played, less time attacking, more strain on the D who aren’t built for that, less tough match ups for the opposition (unlike an offensively charged top 9).

Less offense from top six = sully plays them more to get them to score, stacks the lines to make up for it, doesn’t trust the bottom 6 as much, Letang plays more minutes to try and help the offense.

Skating from the D = Letang’s recovery and losing Daley. They were the only 2 that could really skate their way out of trouble. Now I wouldn’t want Daley back but better skating on D would help. Letang whether it’s his decision making or still recovering is a little off with his skating.

Our lines seem off too much of the time. Sometimes we will see good pressure and extended O zone time but more often than not it’s coming in turned over and going out.

We have other issues too, of course. But we looked to be finding our groove before Schultz went down.

 

[UnrealMachine]

+ Simon is a smart player with slick hands. He made several plays that drove the play through the neutral zone with a sneaky pass. I swear his game is a carbon copy of someone from the late 90s/early 2000's, but I can't remember who it was?!? Probably another Czech...

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Our main issue this season has been goaltending and Crosby. Crosby has picked it up past 10 games or so. Jarry finally had a good game yesterday. Hopefully Murray will get back on track whenever he's back.

Current pens team+ 2016 Matt Murray is a top 5 team. No reason to be worried.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I think coming off two heavy full seasons and a World Cup, you’d figure they would bring in some players to take the load off from Crosby and Malkin.

I guess in some weird illogical way Reaves is the reaction to that.

Toronto and Tampa were obvious better rosters than us going into this year, I know I felt the Canes, Devils, Isles, Jackets, and Flyers all improved. I figured regardless of what moves we were able to pull off, we would be around where we are in terms of the standings. I figured it’d be because of an injury though, not mediocre play.

Also, it isn’t about being a top 8 player in the East, it is about being a top five player in our conference.

The conversation was about whether or not they were a playoff team if I recall. Regardless, I have no idea who they were going to bring in when there's a salary cap. We had to let players go just to stay afloat, let alone bringing impact players in. It's not so easy to change out players in this era, especially when you have no cap room. I don't think they thought Reaves would cure everything that ails them, it was just a move they believed in right or wrong and they couldn't really do much else.

I still see them as a playoff team without question. I know they're likely on a downturn after playing so many games, and our best guys are closer to the end than the beginning, but I can't say that I wouldn't take this roster and this staff over the majority of the rest of the league.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Our main issue this season has been goaltending and Crosby. Crosby has picked it up past 10 games or so. Jarry finally had a good game yesterday. Hopefully Murray will get back on track whenever he's back.

Current pens team+ 2016 Matt Murray is a top 5 team. No reason to be worried.

No, it's team defense and quality chances against. Colorado was outshot significantly last night, but they had at least as many scoring chances and better quality ones on top of that (visual observation from the arena last night). This has been a recurring theme most of the season.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

+ Simon is a smart player with slick hands. He made several plays that drove the play through the neutral zone with a sneaky pass. I swear his game is a carbon copy of someone from the late 90s/early 2000's, but I can't remember who it was?!? Probably another Czech...

He's reminded me of Ray Whitney stylistically since I first started watching him. Whitney had more speed, but everything else is quite similar.

He's been my favorite prospect for awhile, but I kind of lost hope he would get a shot because he's not big or a burner.

 

[Shady Machine]

Our main issue this season has been goaltending and Crosby. Crosby has picked it up past 10 games or so. Jarry finally had a good game yesterday. Hopefully Murray will get back on track whenever he's back.

Current pens team+ 2016 Matt Murray is a top 5 team. No reason to be worried.

Lol what. Goaltending is our main issue? Are you out of your mind?

 

[UnrealMachine]

He's reminded me of Ray Whitney stylistically since I first started watching him. Whitney had more speed, but everything else is quite similar.

He's been my favorite prospect for awhile, but I kind of lost hope he would get a shot because he's not big or a burner.

I haven't seen enough to offer a good comparable on his overall game, but I'll keep that one in mind. There is something specifically sneaky about his stick work and passing that is so damn familiar though. Maybe it's Hudler and I'm off by 10 years?!?

 

[molon labe]

After watching Simon last night... Wonder about running a Simon - Guentzel - Hagelin third line. The two youngsters who would likely be on the same page with our most defensively responsible forward. Obviously liked Simon with Crosby, but I would still like to see Guentzel tried at C from time to time (he has a few times this season, but very sparsely).

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I haven't seen enough to offer a good comparable on his overall game, but I'll keep that one in mind. There is something specifically sneaky about his stick work and passing that is so damn familiar though. Maybe it's Hudler and I'm off by 10 years?!?

Haven't watched Hudler enough, but I was a huge Whitney fan and it was impossible not to notice how similar they moved/stickhandled/the sneakiness.

He is extremely smart/shifty and so impressive with his ability to use his stick to strip the puck and tie guys up... just really love his game.

I dunno how long he will stay in the lineup, but I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[Tom Hanks]

After watching Simon last night... Wonder about running a Simon - Guentzel - Hagelin third line. The two youngsters who would likely be on the same page with our most defensively responsible forward. Obviously liked Simon with Crosby, but I would still like to see Guentzel tried at C from time to time (he has a few times this season, but very sparsely).

If Simon with Sid and Jake is effective at both ends of the ice it would allow us to have Sheary and Hornqvist on the 3rd line. They’d want a decent playmaker as the C. Then you can keep Phil and Geno together (with Hags/trade) and it’s back to a 3 scoring line team. Tweak the 4th line as well and we have a forward group that’s more attacking and puts pressure of the opposition D.

We need to attack because our D isn’t good enough to be regularly stuck in our own end. We are not built for that. It’s good positioning let them take bad shots and we get the puck and send it forward quickly.

 

[molon labe]

If Simon with Sid and Jake is effective at both ends of the ice it would allow us to have Sheary and Hornqvist on the 3rd line. They’d want a decent playmaker as the C. Then you can keep Phil and Geno together (with Hags/trade) and it’s back to a 3 scoring line team. Tweak the 4th line as well and we have a forward group that’s more attacking and puts pressure of the opposition D.

We need to attack because our D isn’t good enough to be regularly stuck in our own end. We are not built for that. It’s good positioning let them take bad shots and we get the puck and send it forward quickly.

True, what's exposed us this season is the extended stretches in our own zone. We're not Boston of St Louis and it shows... transition is the name of the game. However - last year vs. the Sens, the same thing happened, and we just capitalized on our chances. The Avs last night reminded me of the Sens, albeit much speedier. They were hanging all over our guys and the refs seemingly put the whistles away to let the game play out.

I'm not sure who would center Sheary and Hornqvist though, as they both like to chip and chase and play along the boards. Almost as if that line would rely on the D pinching frequently to be successful. Perhaps that Bozak trade (if he happens) would work, idk.

 

[Gurglesons]

The conversation was about whether or not they were a playoff team if I recall. Regardless, I have no idea who they were going to bring in when there's a salary cap. We had to let players go just to stay afloat, let alone bringing impact players in. It's not so easy to change out players in this era, especially when you have no cap room. I don't think they thought Reaves would cure everything that ails them, it was just a move they believed in right or wrong and they couldn't really do much else.

I still see them as a playoff team without question. I know they're likely on a downturn after playing so many games, and our best guys are closer to the end than the beginning, but I can't say that I wouldn't take this roster and this staff over the majority of the rest of the league.

I mean, of course you take this roster over most teams in the league. But, in that same breath, it isn’t surprising where we are with this roster and I wish people would stop perpetuating that myth.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

At minimum giving some kids a chance would not only show what we have before the trade deadline but give some vets a needed blow. And as an added bonus some really deserve a benching to send a message.

Not that they can not take some shifts off or avoid shot blocking. That is needed after playing so many games. But the sloppy play with the puck is unacceptable and has zero to do with conserving or protecting yourself.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I mean, of course you take this roster over most teams in the league. But, in that same breath, it isn’t surprising where we are with this roster and I wish people would stop perpetuating that myth.

If anyone was soothsaying about us legitimately maybe not even making the playoffs before the season started, I'd be surprised. Not saying it didn't happen.

 

[Gurglesons]

If anyone was soothsaying about us legitimately maybe not even making the playoffs before the season started, I'd be surprised. Not saying it didn't happen.

Well, I said it was a concern all summer given our depth issues and the fact every team in our division had gotten better.

I think Shady and NMK agreed with me, but I don’t want to put words in their mouth.

I still don’t think we will miss the playoffs, but this team had a roster comparable to Washington coming into the season. It is no surprise we are fighting for that 4th or 5th spot in the division.

I would also say this run can is equivalent to having an injury, we are going to HAVE to be a better team now rather than being able to absorb some injuries and go .500.

I had the Rangers and Devils finishing last not the Canes and Flyers though.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

 

[WayneSid9987]

Was quite a few pts left on the table these last 13 games where it was considered an easier stretch with only 1 back to back, i believe. Funny thing is that back to back game was their most impressive win vs Tampa with no Geno. Go figure.

The CHI game, NYR game and last night were really the games they left the pts on the table plus giving the NYI a pt with a disatrous final 8 or so minutes. Maybe just a simple thing like dressing Simon and Sprong gives them more pts in the standings in those games. Something for JR to ponder..

 

[Gurglesons]

Was quite a few pts left on the table these last 13 games where it was considered an easier stretch with only 1 back to back, i believe. Funny thing is that back to back game was their most impressive win vs Tampa with no Geno. Go figure.

The CHI game, NYR game and last night were really the games they left the pts on the table plus giving the NYI a pt with a disatrous final 8 or so minutes. Maybe just a simple thing like dressing Simon and Sprong gives them more pts in the standings in those games. Something for JR to ponder..

AHL scratch, Daniel Sprong is all this team needs.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I admit that I haven't been watching as intensely as I would have in years past so far this season. They haven't exactly given me great reasons to. But I don't understand the pining over more/better forwards, either. To my eyes, this team's defensive corps is pretty well f***ed. Letang has come around in inches and at a glacial pace. But he's still a far cry from what I've come to expect from him. The rest seems to slightly different levels of "meh" to flat out bad. Maybe not all bad players, necessarily. But certainly extremely underwhelming and ineffective as a group.

I hope they look in that direction before they start wheeling and dealing for another forward. Sure... ideally I'd love a better 3C. Who wouldn't. But I'm not at all convinced that that is the magic bullet everyone else seems to think it might be. I also happen to think the team had a lot of things break right for them last season, particularly as it pertains to the defense and that they all dug really deep and played a level or two above what they are all actually capable of regularly. It isn't reasonable to project that over a full season.

 

[WayneSid9987]

AHL scratch, Daniel Sprong is all this team needs.

Hey, this team can use all the scoring it can get right now from anyone not named Sid, Phil, Geno, Jake.
An extra goal here and there, like i pointed out and you likely have 3 to 6 more points in the standings in these last 13 games played.

ETA: Sprong's also had 3 goals(or more?) since that HS.

 

[SEALBound]

Missed it for work. How was it? Bad? Seemed bad. My grandmother called me up to gloat about her team winning. Thanks boys.