Post-Game Talk: Avalanche 2, Penguins 1 - The Penguins are Broken

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't know how much it's been discussed but this looks like a team full of miserable human beings, too.

That's just rampant speculation. But the team sort of exudes this "f*** it, I don't want to be here anyway" mentality.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

AHL scratch, Daniel Sprong is all this team needs.

Please.

With the way their fwds are playing in their own zone right now, he would be one of the more responsible players on the ice.

Sheary was absolutely atrocious defensively in the A and he still came up and gave them a big boost.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean... don't mistake me... they are back in the rut of putting 40 garbage shots on goal and only popping in one or two if they are lucky.

I'd certainly not complain about Sprong. But that's a "free" player.

 

[Gurglesons]

Please.

With the way their fwds are playing in their own zone right now, he would be one of the more responsible players on the ice.

Sheary was absolutely atrocious defensively in the A and he still came up and gave them a big boost.

Sheary and Jake were on a different level in the AHL point wise versus Sprong.

I’m not try to say he isn’t going to be or is a good player. But, he is hardly dominating the AHL right now, why put him up here to play ten minutes a night?

 

[Shady Machine]

Well, I said it was a concern all summer given our depth issues and the fact every team in our division had gotten better.

I think Shady and NMK agreed with me, but I don’t want to put words in their mouth.

I still don’t think we will miss the playoffs, but this team had a roster comparable to Washington coming into the season. It is no surprise we are fighting for that 4th or 5th spot in the division.

I would also say this run can is equivalent to having an injury, we are going to HAVE to be a better team now rather than being able to absorb some injuries and go .500.

I had the Rangers and Devils finishing last not the Canes and Flyers though.

Yup. I said all summer that if they moved on from Cullen (not by choice) and Bonino that they needed a very good 3C to give them the best chance to compete. I also agreed with you on the injury risk (which hasn't come to pass much yet) and fatigue factor/overplaying Sid and Geno. The counter was "our wingers are so good and Jake is here a full year so they can carry poor center depth until December or even the deadline". My belief has been that our wingers aren't as good as some think but rather our quality centers elevated the wingers or at least complimented them well. See Kuhnhackl for an example.

This isn't to say I've been right about everything or near everything. Sheahan has been better than I expected and we haven't struggled due to injuries. That said, it's clear that quality forward depth is a major issue and that was fairly easy to predict in the summer IMO.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Sheary and Jake were on a different level in the AHL point wise versus Sprong.

I’m not try to say he isn’t going to be or is a good player. But, he is hardly dominating the AHL right now, why put him up here to play ten minutes a night?

JG was leading the league in ppg when called up, so if that's the standard, no one will ever get the call.

Sprong will likely have doubled up Sheary's goal totals by the time he hits the 30 game mark when Sheary got his final call (2 goals away with 8 games to get there). The team needs guys who can put the puck in the net, and that's what Sprong does.

Sprong isn't exactly going to play any more irresponsible hockey than what we are seeing from the current group, but the difference is he can bury pucks in the net at least.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't know if now is the time to call up Sprong, but I would be doing it soon unless he's playing like garbage.

We need depth scoring and he could be the answer. I would also like to Simon given more time and DiPauli given some time on 4th line wing.

 

[Hockeyholic]

This team will likely miss the playoffs.

 

[Habs10025]

This is not an attack on the Pens just an evaluation from the outside ..

Crosby, Malkin , are both still elite but for how much longer ?
Kessel , Guentzel are the only other forwards that are top 6 ----- Hornqvist is drifting in and out
Rust , Sheary , are solid 3rd liners ---- Hagelin is drifting in and out of the top 9 forwards
Sheahan , Kuhnhackl , Reaves are the same as all 4th line players they work hard but nothing offensively is expected.

Letang , Dumoulin , Schultz , Maatta , Cole , aren't an all star defence but have proven they are good enough to win

Hunwick ,Ruhwedel , are good enough to play as # 6 # 7

Murray , Jarry --- Maybe add an experienced backup

Does Pittsburgh make the playoffs with the team as it currently is Yes
Does Pittsburgh win 1 st round series Yes
Does Pittsburgh win 2nd round series Maybe

Winning a conference final is highly doubtful without upgrades being made
Do the Pittsburgh Penguins win the cup with the team as it currently is No

 

[Gurglesons]

JG was leading the league in ppg when called up, so if that's the standard, no one will ever get the call.

Sprong will likely have doubled up Sheary's goal totals by the time he hits the 30 game mark when Sheary got his final call (2 goals away with 8 games to get there). The team needs guys who can put the puck in the net, and that's what Sprong does.

Sprong isn't exactly going to play any more irresponsible hockey than what we are seeing from the current group, but the difference is he can bury pucks in the net at least.

I guess, I just could see Sprong coming up, being forced on a line with Sheahan and not scoring for ten games while playing like 11 minutes.

And I agree, I could also see him coming up and putting up like 15 on Geno’s right side giving us the desired G - S - K line.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

This is not an attack on the Pens just an evaluation from the outside ..

Crosby, Malkin , are both still elite but for how much longer ?
Kessel , Guentzel are the only other forwards that are top 6 ----- Hornqvist is drifting in and out
Rust , Sheary , are solid 3rd liners ---- Hagelin is drifting in and out of the top 9 forwards
Sheahan , Kuhnhackl , Reaves are the same as all 4th line players they work hard but nothing offensively is expected.

Letang , Dumoulin , Schultz , Maatta , Cole , aren't an all star defence but have proven they are good enough to win

Hunwick ,Ruhwedel , are good enough to play as # 6 # 7

Murray , Jarry --- Maybe add an experienced backup

Does Pittsburgh make the playoffs with the team as it currently is Yes
Does Pittsburgh win 1 st round series Yes
Does Pittsburgh win 2nd round series Maybe

Winning a conference final is highly doubtful without upgrades being made
Do the Pittsburgh Penguins win the cup with the team as it currently is No

'Crosby, Malkin , are both still elite but for how much longer ? '

Pittsburgh has maybe a five year window where they can be as good as anyone in the NHL.

'Do the Pittsburgh Penguins win the cup with the team as it currently is No'.

I could not disagree more strongly. Except for needing another center, but they do not need to be anything all that special.

There is an open question how much the vets have been sandbagging it this year. They did not suddenly forget how to play, and except for losing Cullen, and a lesser extent Bones, they are basically the same team.

I have zero doubt you will see effort and a much different team come April and onward. Enough to win a third cup? Hard to win one cup let alone a third. But they have as much of a chance as any. I do not believe what we have seen is the reality once the playoffs start.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I guess, I just could see Sprong coming up, being forced on a line with Sheahan and not scoring for ten games while playing like 11 minutes.

And I agree, I could also see him coming up and putting up like 15 on Geno’s right side giving us the desired G - S - K line.

And your worst case scenario... how is it any worse than what is going on now on that third line?

If he doesn't produce, he goes back to the A. That's literally all there is to worry about. He's not going to be ruined and the world isn't going to end, cats and dogs won't start dating, etc.

And if he does produce, you just added another dynamic goal scorer to your team.

My stance all along has been - see what you have on the farm, then make your trades. It makes no sense to keep down a kid that has exactly what your team needs, but defense and such and robots and structure and what not...

 

[Gurglesons]

This is not an attack on the Pens just an evaluation from the outside ..

Crosby, Malkin , are both still elite but for how much longer ?
Kessel , Guentzel are the only other forwards that are top 6 ----- Hornqvist is drifting in and out
Rust , Sheary , are solid 3rd liners ---- Hagelin is drifting in and out of the top 9 forwards
Sheahan , Kuhnhackl , Reaves are the same as all 4th line players they work hard but nothing offensively is expected.

Letang , Dumoulin , Schultz , Maatta , Cole , aren't an all star defence but have proven they are good enough to win

Hunwick ,Ruhwedel , are good enough to play as # 6 # 7

Murray , Jarry --- Maybe add an experienced backup

Does Pittsburgh make the playoffs with the team as it currently is Yes
Does Pittsburgh win 1 st round series Yes
Does Pittsburgh win 2nd round series Maybe

Winning a conference final is highly doubtful without upgrades being made
Do the Pittsburgh Penguins win the cup with the team as it currently is No

Many people have said this for the past ten years. I think our roster is pretty crappy right now, but we will be a contender easily for the next three years, likely the next five, and possibly the next ten.

Even this roster with minor moves could easily 3 peat. Toronto and Tampa are the only teams you can say would beat us in the playoffs and even their defensive issues make that up in the air. Murray, Letang, Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel can singlehandidly win us multiple series.

 

[Gurglesons]

And your worst case scenario... how is it any worse than what is going on now on that third line?

If he doesn't produce, he goes back to the A. That's literally all there is to worry about. He's not going to be ruined and the world isn't going to end, cats and dogs won't start dating, etc.

And if he does produce, you just added another dynamic goal scorer to your team.

My stance all along has been - see what you have on the farm, then make your trades. It makes no sense to keep down a kid that has exactly what your team needs, but defense and such and robots and structure and what not...

I disagree. Look at Pouliot, bouncing back and forth between the A and NHL can be determential to the confidence of a young player.

I think this goes back to the Jeff Marek adage, “no player has ever been hurt by spending more time in the AHL”.

Also, who exactly are you scratching from our third line for Sprong?

Sprong is not the solution, just like Jake wasn’t.

 

[pistolpete11]

Defense is a problem as well

Much more, actually. 11th in GF. 29th in GA.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I disagree. Look at Pouliot, bouncing back and forth between the A and NHL can be determential to the confidence of a young player.

I think this goes back to the Jeff Marek adage, “no player has ever been hurt by spending more time in the AHL”.

Also, who exactly are you scratching from our third line for Sprong?

Sprong is not the solution, just like Jake wasn’t.

Pouliot was dicked around for years... up, down, up, down, up, down, sorry we just traded for a guy he gets your spot even though you have played well sucks to be you...

Completely different situation than sending a guy back to the A for the first time in his career. Guentzel was sent back last year and he turned out just fine.

I'm sure Sullivan will pull Simon in favor of Kuhn at some point, which would mean the same thing I said 7-8 weeks ago... Kuhn should be on the bench, Hagelin on the fourth and Sprong somewhere in the top nine.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Lol what. Goaltending is our main issue? Are you out of your mind?

I sometimes feel like fans who don't watch closely enough see the team giving up a lot of goals and automatically assume it means poor goaltending.

Anyone who has actually been watching these games would see that the reason for the bad GAA is not due to the guy between the pipes (well, other than Niemi).

 

[Shady Machine]

I sometimes feel like fans who don't watch closely enough see the team giving up a lot of goals and automatically assume it means poor goaltending.

Anyone who has actually been watching these games would see that the reason for the bad GAA is not due to the guy between the pipes (well, other than Niemi).

Agreed. I think it's fair to say Murray needs to be better than he has been this year if the team is going to 3-peat, but he is FAR from their biggest problem and his poorer stats are certainly impacted by lack of team defense and higher end scoring chances.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pouliot was dicked around for years... up, down, up, down, up, down, sorry we just traded for a guy he gets your spot even though you have played well sucks to be you...

Completely different situation than sending a guy back to the A for the first time in his career. Guentzel was sent back last year and he turned out just fine.

I'm sure Sullivan will pull Simon in favor of Kuhn at some point, which would mean the same thing I said 7-8 weeks ago... Kuhn should be on the bench, Hagelin on the fourth and Sprong somewhere in the top nine.

Do you feel like Sprong is not improving his game in the A?

What is the need to pull him up outside of fans thinking he’d have an impact on this team?

Like, if he gets the Johnston treatment from Sully, you don’t think he is going to get a little sour?

 

[Headshot77]

Honestly guys, I think this is just a tired, worn-out squad. This team has played a TON of hockey in the last two years. But, I like the structure of the team. I just honestly think that this might be the cup hangover year that we've been regretting. TBH, if we sold at the deadline, missed the playoffs, got some good draft picks, and geared up for another legit run at the cup next season with a rested squad, I wouldn't be mad.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

It is not the goaltending. It is the puck movement and support.

I asked this before, when is the last time you saw anything like this?



A hallmark of the Pens since Sully came on board is working as a team. Right now I see a bunch of individuals, some extremely gifted, who are seldom on the same page.

How often have you seen the blind pass to a spot on the ice where no Pens is anywhere close? That is coaching and needs to be cleaned up. Once more it has zero to do with conserving yourself or not taking blocked shots and the like. Working on crisp passes and working as a unit should be something that the regular season should be used for. And some players simply should not be here. They are incapable of learning it seems.

 

[EightyOne]

^^^x100000

It takes a toll to be a roving 5 man though.

 

[66-30-33]

Honestly guys, I think this is just a tired, worn-out squad. This team has played a TON of hockey in the last two years. But, I like the structure of the team. I just honestly think that this might be the cup hangover year that we've been regretting. TBH, if we sold at the deadline, missed the playoffs, got some good draft picks, and geared up for another legit run at the cup next season with a rested squad, I wouldn't be mad.

That's a waste of a year with Crosby/Malkin. They will be older. We should not forfeit the season, JR should look to trim the fat and bring up the WBS kids. Team was built around speed and skill, bring that back with more hunger.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

That's a waste of a year with Crosby/Malkin. They will be older. We should not forfeit the season, JR should look to trim the fat and bring up the WBS kids.

Absent injuries there is a limit to that though. Although I agree with the idea. Maybe some of the Pens should be told to get a skin rash that they caught from Marian Hossa.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I certainly expected a dip this season. You don't play as much hockey as these guys have the last two years without consequence. I don't care what the average age of the roster is.

But this is worse than a I expected.