Post-Game Talk: Avalanche 2, Penguins 1 - The Penguins are Broken

[Gurglesons]

About the dumbest thing they could do is trade him. His current value in a trade vs what he could become is a massive chasm.

Goal scorers are too rare to piss away and selling low would be asinine as hell. Don't forget how people were throwing Guentzel into trades a couple seasons ago.

JR has other assets, including a first and a second, to land a third pivot.

First or a second gets you a rental. Package a 1st, Sprong and Cole and you can get a solution possibly for the next three years.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm surprised folks are down on Hunwick (in general, not just about last night). I've been relatively happy with his game.

*When I say happy, I mean in the "he seems to do a decent job as a bottom pairing guy" and not a "trade everyone in our top four because he can log top pairing minutes" sort of way.

I guess I kind of look at him in a similar way that I do Reaves.

I don't think he's the reason they are mediocre to flat out bad this year. But I don't see him doing anything tangible to help the situation, either. Hunwick carries more of a burden because his role is much more prominent, of course.

As a bottom pairing guy, you could do worse. But like others have said, he seems pretty lost out there so far.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

First or a second gets you a rental. Package a 1st, Sprong and Cole and you can get a solution possibly for the next three years.

I'll take the rental and keep Sprong.

If they go the other route and don't threepeat, the trade could haunt them.

Just not worth it.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'll take the rental and keep Sprong.

If they go the other route and don't threepeat, the trade could haunt them.

Just not worth it.

How?

Did the Jordan Staal or Gogoloski trades haunt them?

We have four solid wingers without Hornqvist. It is the cheapest position to acquire and we could easily build around Kessel, Rust, Jake and Sheary as a top six. Sprong is a luxury.

I wouldn’t honestly not be surprised to see Rutherford do Sprong straight up for a rental.

 

[mpp9]

I’m all for taking advantage of the window, but Sprong for a rental is no bueno for me. Forsberg for Erat possibility.

Our 1st should definitely be on the table tho.

 

[td_ice]

I’m all for taking advantage of the window, but Sprong for a rental is no bueno for me. Forsberg for Erat possibility.

Our 1st should definitely be on the table tho.

Exactly, Sprong for a rental would be asinine. Not gonna happen.

 

[Gurglesons]

Exactly, Sprong for a rental would be asinine. Not gonna happen.

Didn’t realize Rutherford was the GM of sensible trades?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If this team dishes Sprong off for anything short of a lopsided deal... then they have certainly lost the plot. I hate to keep harping on it but it's pretty late in the game when it comes to Malkin and Crosby's careers. There has to be some preparation for the future.

 

[mpp9]

Exactly, Sprong for a rental would be asinine. Not gonna happen.

And I highly doubt Sprong is gonna turn into one of the best wings in the game, but moving an ELC for a guy who may or may not help us win a Cup for one season is too much risk.

 

[mpp9]

If this team dishes Sprong off for anything short of a lopsided deal... then they have certainly lost the plot. I hate to keep harping on it but it's pretty late in the game when it comes to Malkin and Crosby's careers. There has to be some preparation for the future.

Eh. I think you have to prepare for more goal support from the wings as they age.

But in terms of when they’re nearing the end of their current contracts, I’m fine with sucking again and drafting high.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah, I'm not even saying Sprong is guaranteed to become some sort of superstar. There are no guarantees with the vast majority of young players. But it's too big a risk for too little return.

We'll see what JR does, though...

 

[td_ice]

And I highly doubt Sprong is gonna turn into one of the best wings in the game, but moving an ELC for a guy who may or may not help us win a Cup for one season is too much risk.

No doubt.

 

[Gurglesons]

And I highly doubt Sprong is gonna turn into one of the best wings in the game, but moving an ELC for a guy who may or may not help us win a Cup for one season is too much risk.

Well, I think that is why I outlined bringing in a legitimate 3C solution for the next three years with a package of Sprong, Cole and a 1st.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Eh. I think you have to prepare for more goal support from the wings as they age.

But in terms of when they’re nearing the end of their current contracts, I’m fine with sucking again and drafting high.

I know what ya mean.

But I think the whole "Just suck for a few years and rebound with terrific young top 5 picks" strategy, while viable, is viewed a bit to surefire around Penguins-land.

Sure... we did it. We also got EXTREMELY lucky with who was available to pick and the way they panned out. Not to mention the lotto ball thing.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't buy that the lines or any particular players are the problem. We have been winning the possession/shots battle convincingly for the last 15+ games. We don't play a grinding style so this small winger thing is IMO irrelevant. We are meant to be playing a speed game, causing turnovers etc not grinding. You saw in the 1st period how we could dominate the neutral zone with our current lineup when things were clicking. You don't need big guys to do any of that.

Our issue at the moment is that we don't defend well. It's not that we're competing in the D zone and getting overpowered, we're just lackadaisical and we aren't on the same page. We aren't losing board battles and then getting scored on or getting bullied in front of the net. 2 guys are going to the same puck carrier, people aren't picking up the late man, we aren't supporting the puck at the right time or providing outlets for 50 50 battles. We're allowing too many low percentage passes to get through and giving the opponent too much space up high. Those are all systemic issues that everyone is screwing up and we have been all year. We've improved the neutral zone but we're really struggling in the D zone.

The offensive zone will come.

I don't see it like that at all. They are not lackadaisical all the time, it's not that they don't try. They lose a lot of board battles everywhere in all zones, that's where help comes in and assignments get lost. There are mistakes, some boneheaded.

Yes, they are losing board battles and losing puck control even in the D-zone for extended cycles where eventually someone coughs it up after repeated losses along the boards ending up in their net. This is happening attacking the puck carrier, gaining control and then losing it again. You just have to look at the Toronto game to see it. I also seen it against the Avs.

All I can say is watch the board battles a little closer, look back to why those situations end up being. It's easy just to say the end result that someone (whomever is the culprit at a given time) gave the puck away. They are being overtaken as a group.

If they were just lackadaisical they wouldn't even be in those battles. No, they are just losing them, frequently.

 

[mpp9]

I know what ya mean.

But I think the whole "Just suck for a few years and rebound with terrific young top 5 picks" strategy, while viable, is viewed a bit to surefire around Penguins-land.

Sure... we did it. We also got EXTREMELY lucky with who was available to pick and the way they panned out. Not to mention the lotto ball thing.

We should have some players still in their prime by the time we have to think about that. Guentzel, Maatta, Dumoulin, Murray and potentially a few others. Certainly better than starting from scratch. You just need to get lucky finding a talented center.

 

[mpp9]

Well, I think that is why I outlined bringing in a legitimate 3C solution for the next three years with a package of Sprong, Cole and a 1st.

Na. I’m not down with that either. I’d rather just move our 2nd the next few years to acquire a 3C if necessary. You can always make the cap work late in the season for rentals.

Keep your potential impact players unless you’re getting one in return.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

How?

Did the Jordan Staal or Gogoloski trades haunt them?

We have four solid wingers without Hornqvist. It is the cheapest position to acquire and we could easily build around Kessel, Rust, Jake and Sheary as a top six. Sprong is a luxury.

I wouldn’t honestly not be surprised to see Rutherford do Sprong straight up for a rental.

That’s honestly a really bad comparison.

Gogo and Staal were established NHLers with high value when they were traded. You are trading Sprong for pennies on the dollar and that’s exactly how a GM ends up making a trade that he and the fans regret.

This team is having trouble scoring and you are calling a pure goal scorer with speed and a wicked shot a luxury?

Again, I had a similar discussion with people who wanted to throw Guentzel away, many were just casually tossing him in trades as an add on... I have warned people doing the same with Simon as well.

Fans get way too antsy if they don’t see a prospect play and suddenly just want to get whatever for him.

I feel like you shouldn’t be someone I have to point this out to as we were one of the select few warning others that throwing DP away was a bad idea.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If we acquired a 3C who could play with Kessel, I'd feel a lot better about promoting Sprong. As it stands, if we were to promote Sprong one of he or Kessel would just be wasted on the 3rd line anyway.

 

[66-30-33]

If we acquired a 3C who could play with Kessel, I'd feel a lot better about promoting Sprong. As it stands, if we were to promote Sprong one of he or Kessel would just be wasted on the 3rd line anyway.

The return of HBK!!!

 

[Fatty McLardy]

Agreed. I haven't been particularly impressed with him on the whole.

I think we can say that about all our D-men this year besides maybe Maatta.

 

[Gurglesons]

That’s honestly a really bad comparison.

Gogo and Staal were established NHLers with high value when they were traded. You are trading Sprong for pennies on the dollar and that’s exactly how a GM ends up making a trade that he and the fans regret.

This team is having trouble scoring and you are calling a pure goal scorer with speed and a wicked shot a luxury?

Again, I had a similar discussion with people who wanted to throw Guentzel away, many were just casually tossing him in trades as an add on... I have warned people doing the same with Simon as well.

Fans get way too antsy if they don’t see a prospect play and suddenly just want to get whatever for him.

I feel like you shouldn’t be someone I have to point this out to as we were one of the select few warning others that throwing DP away was a bad idea.

You're right those are terrible trade comparisons. My point is that if we can get a solid 3C for that package it isn't like the Erat trade at all.

I just think Sprong on his best days is going to be James Neal. You can move a potential James Neal and get better.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You're right those are terrible trade comparisons. My point is that if we can get a solid 3C for that package it isn't like the Erat trade at all.

I just think Sprong on his best days is going to be James Neal. You can move a potential James Neal and get better.

Just because they both can score goals, doesn't make Neal and Sprong similar.

No matter what comparisons we make, I still keep coming back to my original point that Sprong, currently, isn't at the value of Neal, Gogo, Staal, etc.

If he's moved now, that's pennies on the dollar.

A guy that can skate and shoot like Sprong, I believe will score plenty of goals in the NHL. JR is going to lose a metric ton of value on Sprong if he moves him now, I feel strongly about that.

Maybe I'm wrong and he flops, but I'd rather see that happen with the Pens, than watch him go off for another team for the next decade.

 

[DegenX]

This has moved past last night's game, so time to shut it down.
Salary Cap/Trade thread is here
WBS thread is here
And the All Purpose thread is here