Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine - Round IV

[stavs*]

So here's the timeline.

- Laine Scores 3 points against Belarus.

- Laine is better than Matthews

- Matthews Scores 3 points against Belarus

- ????

- Laine scores 3 points against Germany


It makes no sense.

People need to chill. Matthews will likely put up a great performance against Germany as well, because well.... it is Germany.

Germany lost to FRANCE yesterday....

FRANCE.

Germany is worse than Belarus.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

I just hope Matthews goes to Toronto and this thread is gone as soon as possible.

It won't be gone. Calder discussions between Matthews and Laine is on the horizon

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Germany lost to FRANCE yesterday....

FRANCE.

Germany is worse than Belarus.

Canada also lost to France in recent years (can't remember if it was last year or the year before). And they have virtually the same team every year.

France is a decent team capable of surprises.

Not saying Germany is a good team though.

 

[Lehkonen4Calder]

I dunno, it's become insane. Many people are delusional these days. Reasonable chance that 60 points is the Calder winner. What a bust that scrub will be

lol if i wanted to say he's a scrub i would have just said 40s point rookie season, don't understant your argument

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I wasn't the one that made an argument regarding Mathews so I couldn't didn't offer any portrayal about him at all, just observing patterns and selective reasoning. Still comical you make that claim and list only the smaller samples that support what you claim, and exclude the largest sample of hockey of the two players which muddy your argument a bit. Again, not saying who I think is better, will be happy with either on the Leafs, I just find it somewhat funny when logic that is at least somewhat flawed or selective is being paraded around as 100% objective fact.

Which of the 3 samples I cited are small? WJC, Liiga vs NLA reg and playoffs, and as I have stated, until Matthews shows us otherwise for which I am open to amendments, the WHC where Laine not only has been better than Matthews production wisw, but anyone else who has played in the tournament.

This is selective thinking? Explain how so? This is practically the entire sample of games played to date for the entire year I am sampling.

 

[pikkuvaimo]

Laine's playmaking skill are pretty underrated here, just like what happened in Ovechkin's case. Just because he prefers to shoot doesn't mean he can't pass. The first goal against Belarus is a good example, pretty much did it all by himself.

This. I think AM is better player overall, and will be picked first. But what is this thing when everybody is saying that Laine has nothing except his shot better than Matthews. People who claims that Laine hockeyIQ is much lower than AM, haven't clearly seen a single game from Laine. His IQ is elite level, so is his passing skill.

 

[stavs*]

Canada also lost to France in recent years (can't remember if it was last year or the year before). And they have virtually the same team every year.

France is a decent team capable of surprises.

Not saying Germany is a good team though.

I remember that, and that was some of the worst hockey I've ever seen played by Canada.

and what does the past have to do with the present? Their lineup looks awful from top to bottom, but so does Germany. At least Belarus had some NHL talent.

 

[jepjepjoo]

Of which Laine was just okay for 65-70% of. Matthews has been dominant for years now. Body of work means more than a few good months.

It's not like Laine hasn't played hockey before this year...

12-13 14 years old

Tappara U16 Jr. C SM-sarja Q 7gp 14g 9a
Tappara U16 Jr. C SM-sarja 9gp 14g 8a
Tappara U18 Jr. B SM-sarja 27gp 17g 9a

13-14 15 years old

Tappara U18 Jr. B SM-sarja 5gp 5g 6a
Tappara U20 Jr. A SM-liiga 40gp 26g 11a
Finland U16 (all) International-Jr 2gp 5g 1a
Finland U17 (all) International-Jr 7gp 12g 5a

14-15 16 years old

Tappara U20 Jr. A SM-liiga 6gp 4g 1a
Tappara Liiga 6gp 0g 1a
LeKi [Loan] Mestis 36gp 5g 7a
Finland U17 (all) International-Jr 4gp 1g 1a
Finland U18 WJC-18 7gp 8g 3a
Finland U18 (all) International-Jr 11gp 10g 3a

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Toronto didn't win the draft lottery.


Winnipeg did.

 

[Liminality]

Toronto didn't win the draft lottery.


Winnipeg did.

Unless it was all a magnificent dream I'm pretty sure you're wrong

Heck at #2 I'm sure Toronto will pick up a good player either way.

 

[Future]

I just said above that i rather see Toronto draft Matthews

Of course you would

 

[Future]

This. I think AM is better player overall, and will be picked first. But what is this thing when everybody is saying that Laine has nothing except his shot better than Matthews. People who claims that Laine hockeyIQ is much lower than AM, haven't clearly seen a single game from Laine. His IQ is elite level, so is his passing skill.

I think everyone is aware of those things. Matthews is just better in those aspects. He just makes quicker decisions in every area of the ice which should translate very well to the NHL. He's more reactive than thinking which you have to be to be elite in the NHL.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

I remember that, and that was some of the worst hockey I've ever seen played by Canada.

and what does the past have to do with the present? Their lineup looks awful from top to bottom, but so does Germany. At least Belarus had some NHL talent.

You said "Germany lost to France so Germany must suck more". I pointed to the past because by this logic Canada had a worse team than France.

Belarus have zero NHL players. Kostitsyn bros are not what they used to be. If France and Belarus play eachother, France has a legit chance to beat them.

Not sure what's so hard to understand.

 

[Captain Timo]

Both of these guys have really impressed me so far this tournament

 

[Liminality]

I think everyone is aware of those things. Matthews is just better in those aspects. He just makes quicker decisions in every area of the ice which should translate very well to the NHL. He's more reactive than thinking which you have to be to be elite in the NHL.

Which I think Babcock will love if the Leafs choose him. Babcock I think can bring the best out of Matthews.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Which of the 3 samples I cited are small? WJC, Liiga vs NLA reg and playoffs, and as I have stated, until Matthews shows us otherwise for which I am open to amendments, the WHC where Laine not only has been better than Matthews production wisw, but anyone else who has played in the tournament.

This is selective thinking? Explain how so? This is practically the entire sample of games played to date for the entire year I am sampling.

You only cited playoffs, not regular season initially, which was selective. Adding it in to a newer post is a nice attempt to revise your initial offering. If you are suggesting Laine definitely outplayed him during their entire regular season, that's a bit of a stretch. The "outplayed at every level" was selectively used here, when it was heavily railed against in another situation that wasn't vastly different from this one (yet you portray it as being completely different, despite it not being so cut and dry). Again, seems to be a pattern on HF, one many others have noticed from what I've read.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Leafs take matthews - LOL they took the 2nd best player overalll

Leafs take laine - LOL they took the winger over the centre.

 

[Shwaguy*]

This. I think AM is better player overall, and will be picked first. But what is this thing when everybody is saying that Laine has nothing except his shot better than Matthews. People who claims that Laine hockeyIQ is much lower than AM, haven't clearly seen a single game from Laine. His IQ is elite level, so is his passing skill.

His IQ is nice. But it's just not on the same level or even that close to AM.

AM's Hockey IQ is the highest of any prospect we've seen since Crosby, other than McDavid (Well, McDavid's offensive IQ is definitely better, it's better than anyone else's in the whole league, defensively AM's hockey IQ is better though).

 

[BB88]

Which I think Babcock will love if the Leafs choose him. Babcock I think can bring the best out of Matthews.

And I think the Jets are a perfect place for Laine too.

This was pretty much the best possible outcome and still it's not enough here.

 

[Liminality]

And I think the Jets are a perfect place for Laine too.

This was pretty much the best possible outcome and still it's not enough here.

It's mainly more about the style that Babcock runs too. From what I remember with Maurice in Toronto is that he was more offensively inclined and took more chances, not sure if that's the same now in Winnipeg but I'm sure Laine would fit right in just fine.

Not to mention that Winnipeg currently have the better supporting cast to ease prospects in, where as the Leafs have maybe only a couple of players that can hold the fort higher up in the lineup.

 

[Shwaguy*]

Would you rather a taller Joe Sakic or a taller but worse skating Kovalchuk? The answer seems easy....Sakic (I am saying this is these player's ceiling, not what they are guaranteed to be fwiw).

In all honesty Matthews' ceiling is both higher than Laine's, they both have equal offensive ceiling's and Matthews has a significantly better 2 way game (40 Goals + Over PPG and Selke defence >> 40-50 goals + Over PPG). Even if Laine were also a center Matthews would still be the better player and if Winnipeg had the 1st pick - They'd be taking Matthews.

And before any of you say anything, no, Laine's ceiling is not Ovechkin, he will never be Ovechkin, so just stop with that nonsense now.

 

[Redwingsfan]

Leafs take matthews - LOL they took the 2nd best player overalll

Leafs take laine - LOL they took the winger over the centre.

Its almost like different people have different opinions..

 

[Shwaguy*]

And not only is Matthews' ceiling higher than Laine's, but he is more likely to reach it as well.

Laine is still amazing, he'd deserve to go first overall in a lot of draft years, this year is definitely not one of those years though.

 

[FinPanda]

It won't be gone. Calder discussions between Matthews and Laine is on the horizon

Noooo... I really don't want to see anything that include the Leafs fans and the Finns. It will be war. Not to forget possible Jets fans. Scares me even think about it.

Or it could be nice discussion. Who knows.

 

[Legion34]

The one thing that still makes no sense to me is people claim that laine played better in the regular season

Matthews scored something like 13 points in 10 less games. Matthews was
Top 10 in his league in scoring. Laine 33rd. The leagues are different. But within their own, matthews was better

Since 2013 laine has the 2nd highest (that i know of) liiga total. Barkov beat him, and rattanen and JO both got within 5 pts. Matthews broke all time records of stars
At 17.

The leafs might take laine. In which case i will be excited about his potential. But i would be worried that 80 percent of his game seems to be on 20% of the ice.

Scoring on the pp against germany and belarus doesnt make me as confident.

If im 1 i take matthews and pray i can resign him. If jets wanted to trade up for 34 i would listen hard