Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine - Round IV

[Deadly Dogma]

That was a different conversation and it is not entirely an accurate portrayal by you, regardless it was addressed already, and really it is off topic. There is no need to derail into anything other than Laine and Matthews discussion here.

I do find it quite funny when you get caught using the same argument both ways in different situations to go against Leafs.

Any how I still think Matthews>Laine.
Laine is a PP beast but most of the game is played at 5 vs 5 and in all 3 zones so it just seems obvious to me that you take Matthews when he can play in all 3 zones and all situations.

 

[Beukeboom]

Yea I'm getting used to it, it was similiar with WJC and Liiga playoffs, Laine keeps exceding all expectations possible and makes all these historic records yet people are like "Laine has a good shot but everything else is not even close" lmao

But you have to keep in mind that Matthews has been great for years. He has already set records in NA on NA sized rinks. Beating guys like Patrick Kane, Eichel and Kessel. That weights incredibly heavy. Then he went to Europe and had the highest GPG and second highest PPG in the Swiss League beating many old NHLers and especially many old scoring title winners in other European leagues. All as an 18 year old.

He also won U18, he was tied number one in scoring in WJC and now he is performing great in Wc.

The thing here is that he is incredibly consistent. Laine has been great since WJC and it is not a small sample size, hence he is up at number two. But it is a small samle size compared to for how long and on how many different leagues and occasions Matthews has been great and dominating.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

But Matthews isn't a winger, he's a natural centre who ends up having more responsibilities because of that. You can't just take away a players area of expertise to try and even the playing field.

If Laine was a centre how would that have affected his development?

I'm saying if all things are equal position wise. This is the crux of discussion isn't it?

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

Please Toronto, let the Jets have Laine

 

[dubey]

Please Toronto, let the Jets have Laine

Why would Toronto take the #2 player with the #1 pick

Decisions like that make teams move to Arizona

 

[The Assclown]

I'm saying if all things are equal position wise. This is the crux of discussion isn't it?

You're only looking at points and ignoring the things away from scoring that puts Matthews head and shoulders above Patrik Laine. Thankfully great hockey players are measured for things that go way beyond just scoring on the powerplay and overall points.

 

[Lehkonen4Calder]

Please Toronto, let the Jets have Laine

Yeah i would hate if the Leaf picks Laine

 

[The Assclown]

Please Toronto, let the Jets have Laine

Don't worry, we'll give you the leftovers.

 

[FinPanda]

I just hope Matthews goes to Toronto and this thread is gone as soon as possible.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I do find it quite funny when you get caught using the same argument both ways in different situations to go against Leafs.

Any how I still think Matthews>Laine.
Laine is a PP beast but most of the game is played at 5 vs 5 and in all 3 zones so it just seems obvious to me that you take Matthews when he can play in all 3 zones and all situations.

It was already addressed. They did not share the same path to the NHL. Bracco outproduced both of them. But he only intersected Eichel for 1 year at US Developmental. It's a disingenuous argument. Matthews and Laine on the otherhand have played at the WJC, Liiga vs NLA, and the WHC. 2 of the 3 are identical tournaments, no what if's or buts. The pro league play is comparable also. So these apples as much as you want to claim are the same apples, are not.

 

[Liminality]

I'm saying if all things are equal position wise. This is the crux of discussion isn't it?

Okay I'll play along.

If Matthews was a winger maybe he'd focus more on offence and put up even more crazy numbers than he has been. It's a point which is pretty impossible to make go one way or another because you have to take into consideration the development process that goes into both positions.

Position plays a big factor and you'll often see centres start off on the wing and go back to centre because they can pretty much play any forward position. Don't see many wingers transfer to centre cause the responsibilities are different imo.

I don't like the argument of "if Matthews was a winger" and don't think it carries much weight because that takes out a lot of his quietly efficient game.

 

[Gabranth]

Laine's playmaking skill are pretty underrated here, just like what happened in Ovechkin's case. Just because he prefers to shoot doesn't mean he can't pass. The first goal against Belarus is a good example, pretty much did it all by himself.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Yeah i would hate if the Leaf picks Laine

It is going to be so much fun watching Matthews destroy the Habs starting next year

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Okay I'll play along.

If Matthews was a winger maybe he'd focus more on offence and put up even more crazy numbers than he has been. It's a point which is pretty impossible to make go one way or another because you have to take into consideration the development process that goes into both positions.

Position plays a big factor and you'll often see centres start off on the wing and go back to centre because they can pretty much play any forward position. Don't see many wingers transfer to centre cause the responsibilities are different imo.

I don't like the argument of "if Matthews was a winger" and don't think it carries much weight because that takes out a lot of his quietly efficient game.

It's very simple.

All things equal you take the Center over the Winger.

When things are not equal. And this is why there is a lively discussion.

You take the BPA. It is up to each person to decide if things are all equal. Or who the BPA is. And neither player has been picked just yet. So let's put aside all of the team bias stuff(not you but poster in general)

 

[Plub]

Matthews is better in every way outside of of Laine's incredible shot. Leafs will take Matthews and he'll end up being the best player in the draft as expected.

 

[Lehkonen4Calder]

It is going to be so much fun watching Matthews destroy the Habs starting next year

Yup good luck with your 50 point #1 center (not saying we are any better right now)

 

[Stavros]

Matthews is better in every way outside of of Laine's incredible shot. Leafs will take Matthews and he'll end up being the best player in the draft as expected.

Laine is bigger/has better reach, has at least as good hands and passing.

Edit. Everyone in this thread are going to look really stupid when Pulju actually wins the Calder next year

 

[Babcocks Marner]

He said next year? I believfe Matthews will get below 60 point

He probably will.... not sure what your points is. Leafs highest scorer had 45 points last year..... 60 is quite the step up.

Eichel had 56...... 60 is not a stretch, even though you mean it as an insult, it's really not.

 

[Gabranth]

He probably will.... not sure what your points is. Leafs highest scorer had 45 points last year..... 60 is quite the step up.

Eichel had 56...... 60 is not a stretch, even though you mean it as an insult, it's really not.

What are people expecting out of prospects? 60 points is bad for a rookie season now?

 

[Liminality]

Laine is bigger/has better reach, has at least as good hands and passing.

Edit. Everyone in this thread are going to look really stupid when Pulju actually wins the Calder next year

Being bigger definitely helps his puck protection game but I'm not sure Laine will be more physical than Matthews imo.

Just ask JVR who's 6'3, 209lbs and averages around 1 hit per game in his career.


Also, so very true.

EVERYONE is forgetting about Pulju and Columbus I'm sure is quite content in grabbing him.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

That was a different conversation and it is not entirely an accurate portrayal by you, regardless it was addressed already, and really it is off topic. There is no need to derail into anything other than Laine and Matthews discussion here.

I wasn't the one that made an argument regarding Mathews so I couldn't didn't offer any portrayal about him at all, just observing patterns and selective reasoning. Still comical you make that claim and list only the smaller samples that support what you claim, and exclude the largest sample of hockey of the two players which muddy your argument a bit. Again, not saying who I think is better, will be happy with either on the Leafs, I just find it somewhat funny when logic that is at least somewhat flawed or selective is being paraded around as 100% objective fact.

 

[Future]

They are NOT generational talent or close to it (only Laine can make a case because his upside is higher and could be the next OVi)

Whenever I see someone say Laine has a higher upside I find it funny. What gives him the higher upside? Because he shoots the puck harder and has some cool one-on-one moves?

 

[Lehkonen4Calder]

He probably will.... not sure what your points is. Leafs highest scorer had 45 points last year..... 60 is quite the step up.

Eichel had 56...... 60 is not a stretch, even though you mean it as an insult, it's really not.

An insult? he said Mathews will destroy the Habs next year, i just believe he won't because will get in the 50s point most likely. Is Galchenyuk destroying the Leaf? I don't think so

 

[Lehkonen4Calder]

Says the terrified Habs fan that could only dream of having a center like Matthews. Whenever I see someone say Laine has a higher upside I find it funny. What gives him the higher upside? Because he shoots the puck harder and has some cool one-on-one moves?

I just said above that i rather see Toronto draft Matthews

 

[Babcocks Marner]

What are people expecting out of prospects? 60 points is bad for a rookie season now?

I dunno, it's become insane. Many people are delusional these days. Reasonable chance that 60 points is the Calder winner. What a bust that scrub will be