Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine - Round IV

[CashMash]

Yep, saying that Laine's ceiling is Ovechkin is a stretch. Good thing you're staying away from that behavior.

Yeah. Some are making some really weird statements here because by saying that the offensive ceiling is that high while also playing selke defense, it would mean he is the best player in the league. Even better than McDavid and the like...

 

[Lehkonen4Calder]

Can tell you're scared already.

Don't worry, we got Marner and Nylander just waiting to torch your team as well.

Reading comprehension? The guy said Matthews will destroy the habs next year.... goock luck because he will get 50s point

 

[cotopaxi]

Fail... none of those are from the recent game against Belarus. Also he looks slow and useless when he's not in the offensive zone.

Erm.. Did you forget the sarcasm emoticon or what?

 

[Future]

Please let there not be a part V...

 

[CashMash]

Please let there not be a part V...

Yeah. This thread should be paused at least momentarily, but it won't. xD

 

[realgoodleafs]

His skating isn't subpar, he needs just more explosive first few steps which will improve. he got great top speed and edge work etc. Also it doesn't matter if they close down on him, he knows how to use his reach etc.

In surprised he gets around as well as he does because he skates like there are no laces in his skates and they are about to fall off.

 

[pikkuvaimo]

But it's just not on the same level or even that close to AM.

Here it is. Again.

 

[Captain Timo]

It's funny because around the 2013 draft, Mackinnon was said to be better than Barkov because he had more "raw talent" than Barkov regardless that Barkov was more of a complete player and still is... and now Matthews is better than Laine because he's a more of complete player, regardless how much more "raw talent" Laine has.

Really not that funny because Puljujarvi is said to be the rawest of the three?

 

[agent082]

Please let there not be a part V...

Why? I think we are starting to find consensus.

 

[BB88]

Please let there not be a part V...

If there is I hope the title has Matthews 1st overalll vs Laine 2nd overall.

 

[Gsus]

Here it is. Again.

I would like to know too how this AM's way better hockey IQ shows? Matthews is an all-around player while Laine is a shoot-first mentality sniper. Isn't it easier to call AM's IQ better because of his all-around game? It doesn't mean Laine's IQ was any worse if he just wants to shoot the puck and isn't stopping opponents' attacks in own zone.

Laine's done great little plays this year in FEL (not so much in WHC's yet tho). Will be seen next season.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Lets pull the E-Brake here for a second. Laine is a great player but 6 PP points against two below average teams shouldn't discredit everything that has happened over the last two years. At the NHL level, most likely Laine will be putting up a PPP every 3 games. He will need to show me that he is able to create offense 5 on 5, something where Matthews excels.

 

[FinPanda]

Lets pull the E-Brake here for a second. Laine is a great player but 6 PP points against two below average teams shouldn't discredit everything that has happened over the last two years.

His first goal was at even strenght.

 

[IFK]

Would you rather a taller Joe Sakic or a taller but worse skating Kovalchuk? The answer seems easy....Sakic (I am saying this is these player's ceiling, not what they are guaranteed to be fwiw).

In all honesty Matthews' ceiling is both higher than Laine's, they both have equal offensive ceiling's and Matthews has a significantly better 2 way game (40 Goals + Over PPG and Selke defence >> 40-50 goals + Over PPG). Even if Laine were also a center Matthews would still be the better player and if Winnipeg had the 1st pick - They'd be taking Matthews.

And before any of you say anything, no, Laine's ceiling is not Ovechkin, he will never be Ovechkin, so just stop with that nonsense now.

OMG! This is the worst post i have seen. So you mean Matthews is 2 times better than McDavid or enyone else in league. Bigger, Selke winner (Toews, Kopitar), 40-50 goals (Ovechkin) and Over PPG (Crosby).

Wake up guy, you are so out of the game. Matthews ceiling is Malkin type center offensive guy with good playmaking skills and good wrist shot close to goal. He is not elite two-way forward in his ceiling (he can be elite two-way forward, but he is so far away that and his playing is not go D first like Kopitar, Toews, Bergeron, Barkov).

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

It's almost as if people learn

and Datsyuk, Bergeron and Kopitar didn't demonstrate anything before Barkov, huh.

 

[Gabranth]

OMG! This is the worst post i have seen. So you mean Matthews is 2 times better than McDavid or enyone else in league. Bigger, Selke winner (Toews, Kopitar), 40-50 goals (Ovechkin) and Over PPG (Crosby).

Wake up guy, you are so out of the game. Matthews ceiling is Malkin type center offensive guy with good playmaking skills and good wrist shot close to goal. He is not elite two-way forward in his ceiling (he can be elite two-way forward, but he is so far away that and his playing is not go D first like Kopitar, Toews, Bergeron, Barkov).

This Matthews guy is going to be something special.

 

[IFK]

This Matthews guy is going to be something special.

Absolutely and there is no hyping Matthews or bashing Laine!

 

[Ippenator]

Points mean absolutely nothing when you add contextual factors like who each player plays with.

Only winning, goals and points matter in the end. In that order. If you help your team win almost anything with your will and scoring at the right moments it is much more important than some funnily overestimated regular season two way play. Hockey is about goal scoring and winning in the end. There are too many people who like to think that it is more complex and like to look at corsi stats and other BS, and to base hockey in overly defensive and tactical boring stuff. Hockey at best is about players like Laine. Period.

 

[Jopo]

I'm slightly but unavoidably biased for Laine as I'm Finn, being more familiar with his efforts then what comes to Mathews'. I accept that many things here are question of opinion, and that it's nearly impossible arrive to any kind universal consensus here. objective even less. It's sad to see same circle of argumentations are going on again and again in these threads. Why? It's obvious they both are true talents (while I abstain to use word 'generational' as that is something that can be said only from retrospective analysis), that will have both excellent future in NHL, no doubts.

What annoys me most is that persistent 'small sample set' - meme, especially when used as an argument to downplay another player. How these young guys can even have yet anything else then 'small sample sets' at all in their age? Instead it should be already clear that whatever and how small their "sample sets" are, their sets are phenomenal in their smallness measured both by their quantity and quality. Besides, it's seems to me that most of all relevant Hockey statistics revolve exactly around these kind minimal to non-existent sample sets like, goals/points production and -/+, basic stats per one game, on which whole statistical sample sets are based for purposes to evaluate a level of a player, award stars of game, best players of game etc. These guys are top 3 picks exactly because of their "samples"

In both cases, with available career statistics there shouldn't not be any kind reasons to point to mythic "small sets". I've got impression that these young guys would have had play 10 years in NHL that talking about their impressive efforts during their yet short careers would be free from that kind BS-argument.

What is important with these "small sample sets" is that probability of already happened things is 1 (100%), while possible future happenings it's somewhere between 0 and 1 (0-100%), essentially big "IF". In their apparently ridiculously small sample sets their contributions have already proven that its pretty safe to expect that their big IFs are more likely somewhere between 95-100% then 10-30% in long run where ever they might play, but there are no way to ever make that future IF 1 before things really happen.

Why not just watch and enjoy their playing, to see how they collapse that hazy curve of unknown probabilities between 0 and 1 to solid 1, game after game?

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

Only winning, goals and points matter in the end. In that order. If you help your team win almost anything with your will and scoring at the right moments it is much more important than some funnily overestimated regular season two way play. Hockey is about goal scoring and winning in the end. There are too many people who like to think that it is more complex and like to look at corsi stats and other BS, and to base hockey in overly defensive and tactical boring stuff. Hockey at best is about players like Laine. Period.

Sorry but this is incorrect or at the very minimum dishonest.

There are lots of things that help win and are essential to winning that don't just relate directly to scoring a goal.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Absolutely and there is no hyping Matthews or bashing Laine!

Their are far more posts hyping Laine and now discrediting Mathews or saying Laine is definitely better than there are posts bashing Laine. You focus on the one or two negative posts about Laine, and ignore the ones that hype him as outlandishly as anyone has hyped Mathews.

 

[SCP Guy]

Both player look really good to me wow....Toronto is going to get the big 2 way centre their team desperately needs... The jets are going to get the scoring sniper their team desperately needs....win win

 

[Romang67]

Is his ceiling say stamkos as a winger?

Very different players. Apart from their shots, they aren't similar at all. In his prime, Laine will probably play at 6'4, 230lbs. That's a good 3'' and 35 lbs more than Stamkos is currently at.

 

[Willy Styles]

90% of scouts have laine as the number 2 prospect in the draft, but of course posters on hfs opinions are more accurate.

Not to discredit laine, why cant we appreciate both players without discrediting the other?

[mod]

 

[Ippenator]

Fail... none of those are from the recent game against Belarus. Also he looks slow and useless when he's not in the offensive zone.

Oh please, commenting here like an all knowing God, when obviously you haven't even seen Laine play. And in fact I doubt that you have seen even Matthews play in that many games, at least during this season, which is after all what should really matter. Not what they did 2 or 3 years ago. That time is completely useless, when they have both been playing against men this season.

I think your problem with seeing Laine as slow, is that you don't understand how a player who is almost 6'5 tall really looks with his skating. The same applied to Sundin, Lindros and Lemieux. And non of them were slow skaters. And neither is Laine. Only thing is that he needs more leg strength to develop his acceleration, which was totally ruined with the knee injury that he had just one season ago. He has been progressing already a lot with his acceleration this season. And I am absolutely sure that the same progress will continue for at least the next two years, if he can avoid nasty injuries. I will just wait and see what kind of a monster he will be then.